MOTOR PROJECT

[MikeinBaja]

Although today wasn't truely "day 1" (I messed with it down on the ground -rough install to get accustomed) today was day #1 of the permanent install.

Before getting into a review I putchased the SG9120B from the ebay authorized reseller only because the shipping charges were cheaper and they would ship to my PO box (more convenient for me). The first motor arrived DOA - however, they shipped a replacement right away - even before I returned the DOA motor. Overall I was very happy with the reseller, but in hindsight I would have been much less anxious had I been dealing with Robby instead of an unknown. I'm not slamming the reseller at all, but I did have some anxiety wondering if the whole deal would turn out OK.

On to the install! Since we get alot of winds here, I decided to use an old Direcway tripod mount for the dish motor combination all hard mounted on the roof. These old tripod mounts were engineered for the wind loads and weight of those dishes and make a very sturdy mount.

I elected to install the tripod support legs a little bit more upright than usual. I have high hopes of putting a 4' dish up there someday, and wanted to make sure there was clearance.

My TS is SM5. Set the motor Lat at 32, set the dish at @24 deg, plugged in the Birdog found the bird and fine tuned. I don't have it dialed in as well as I'd like, but was getting 75S and 60Q on SM5.

I'm not quite on the arc (yes, the mount is DEAD level). Motored over to G19 (97) and got 75S and 55-60Q, further along at G18 (89) gave me 70S and 20Q. As I get further away from TS. the alignment error magnifies. No big surprise there.

I need to go back and fine tune - but I'm done for today. Some pix as requested by the green one.

Progress yes - but more work to do on day 2.

This is my first motor. For those thinking about it - the motor moves slower than you would expect. It moves fine, but remember it IS a DC motor! Make small movements and wait for things to settle down! It moves just fine, but I think many of us are accustomed to AC motors that zip in an instant!

Note - the long loop from the LNB to the motor will be shortened. I wasn't real sure how long the travel would be and wanted to drive it full travel before I cut to proper length.

It's Miller time.

 

[Anole]

Some pix as requested by the green one.

I'm sportin' a blue jacket for winter, but will likely return to green by summer time.

... I think many of us are accustomed to AC motors that zip in an instant!

That's why some guys put the jacks for a BUD on their Ku dishes.
They can really whip it around. 36 volt power, too.

It's Miller time.

Just so long as it's not a Bud!

Loved the pix.
Already ran your prints I found on the shiny motor housing!
Hope it can hold up to your salty weather
When I was a kid in Florida, living that close to the ocean was a recipe for rust!

Speaking of which, I see a little on the back side of your dish.
Don't recognize the saw-tooth hardware on the rear side.
What sort of dish is that?

Your mount and support struts look pretty robust.
Think that should do the job - :up

Look forward to more pix 'n comments as you fine tune onto the arc.

 

[turbosat]

If you'll remember to pick a stored channel that is horizontal, the motor will move at full speed. I hardly remember it myself, but have timed it and it does make a difference.

 

[Tron]

Mike, to lessen the possibility of corrosion on the bolt and mounting hardware, you could spray some clear protective enamel (Rust-O-Leum or Krylon both work fine). I just got through installing two replacement mounts for my motorized dishes and will be installing my SG-9120Bs when I can get my head above water from Mardi Gras sometime next week. The mounts are DirecTV Slimline mounts with monopoles bolted onto Superdish NPRM bases, and are extremely sturdy. I got finished coating the exposed bolts only a few hours before severe rain moved in, so everything is protected from the weather.

 

[MikeinBaja]

Mike, to lessen the possibility of corrosion on the bolt and mounting hardware, you could spray some clear protective enamel (Rust-O-Leum or Krylon both work fine). I just got through installing two replacement mounts for my motorized dishes and will be installing my SG-9120Bs when I can get my head above water from Mardi Gras sometime next week. The mounts are DirecTV Slimline mounts with monopoles bolted onto Superdish NPRM bases, and are extremely sturdy. I got finished coating the exposed bolts only a few hours before severe rain moved in, so everything is protected from the weather.

I've actually found something that works very well on the bolts in the salt air to inhibit corrosion - wheel bearing grease! It's cheap - and a small can lasts forever. Next time I'm up on the roof doing the motor tweek I'll snap a pix of a fixed dish that has been up there for almost 2 years now - no rust on the bolts at all!

The downside is that whenever you want to make any adjustment you start out with an old rag.

 

[MikeinBaja]

If you'll remember to pick a stored channel that is horizontal, the motor will move at full speed. I hardly remember it myself, but have timed it and it does make a difference.

Thanks for the hint.

 

[MikeinBaja]

Just so long as it's not a Bud!

Loved the pix.

Already ran your prints I found on the shiny motor housing!

My prints are in so many databases from military, security clearances, border passes etc - I'm suprised they aren't on Facebook!


Speaking of which, I see a little on the back side of your dish.

Dish was a freebee takedown . Face is rust free.

Don't recognize the saw-tooth hardware on the rear side.

The motor mount? Came with the motor along with the "U" bolts.

What sort of dish is that?

Old SKY MX dish. I have another one that is a bit larger, but this one seems to really suck the signals in.

Your mount and support struts look pretty robust.
Think that should do the job - :up

Thanks - let's see what happens when the Santa Ana's blow next time .

Look forward to more pix 'n comments as you fine tune onto the arc.

Might not get back up there today. Mama has "honey do's" and company coming for dinner.

 

[Tron]

I've actually found something that works very well on the bolts in the salt air to inhibit corrosion - wheel bearing grease! It's cheap - and a small can lasts forever. Next time I'm up on the roof doing the motor tweek I'll snap a pix of a fixed dish that has been up there for almost 2 years now - no rust on the bolts at all!

The downside is that whenever you want to make any adjustment you start out with an old rag.

That sounds like an excellent idea! Inhibiting corrosion on satellite dish hardware is important in climates where humidity and/or salt air are abundant. I got tired of replacing nuts and bolts after awhile ...

 

[MikeinBaja]

MOTOR PROJECT - WORK DAY 2 - RAISES ??

Maybe I'm a better hardware installer than I thought .

Rainy today so instead of going back up on the roof to tweek the arc I decided to plug the whole deal into my Coolsat 6000 and see what happened. Drove around a bit (under a cloudy sky) and got the following:

116 (TS) 97S 71Q
97 97S 73Q
87 97S 78Q
74 97S 76Q

Did not have the time to drive higher than SM5, but I do have a question:

Since my Q numbers improve at the lower arc sats I assume I'm slightly off the arc and will get bad numbers on the higher position birds like 123? Would these results mean my EL is a little high or a little low?

Pretty positive results for a rainy day though!

 

[turbosat]

Might just mean your east/west is a little off. When you notice the signal going down, try pushing up or down a little on the edge of the dish to see if that helps improve it. Then you can adjust accordingly. Might need a helper if your rig is on the roof, unless you can take a small tv and the receiver up to the dish to watch.

 

[MikeinBaja]

Might just mean your east/west is a little off. When you notice the signal going down, try pushing up or down a little on the edge of the dish to see if that helps improve it. Then you can adjust accordingly. Might need a helper if your rig is on the roof, unless you can take a small tv and the receiver up to the dish to watch.

Not sure - but maybe. One thing I like @ the CS is rather than just the regular "move a step" on the motor setup, there is a fine tune "nudge" E-W. These were the best I could do using the "nudge.

Makes me think more EL than AZ - but this is my first motor.

All input appreciated!

 

[Anole]

For your Coolsat 6000, you might want to turn on the beeping for alignment, if that would help.
Use the 3rd party firmware in our new Firmware Download Department.
COOLSAT 6000 version .06
For other readers, we also have: Coolsat 5000 v.06 third party
(scroll down on the target page for a list of enhancements)

As for knowing which of the many variables to tweak on your motor & dish, this picture from the Geo-Orbit site may come in handy:

 

[AcWxRadar]

MikeinBaja,

Here are my tips if you would like to try them. Without switches involved and with the receiver and TV at the dish site......

I like to use a dial inclinometer with a magnetic base and slap that on the belly of the motor to read out the exact motor elevation. Then, subtract that from 90° to know the current motor latitude setting. This should, of course, match your location latitude. Once I get this to match up precisely, I lock it down and never make any further adjustment to it.

I use USALS and tell my receiver where HOME is by entering my latitude and longitude coordinates. I set each satellite to use USALS and I use the MANUAL SCAN mode on my Coolsat 5000 and command the motor to drive to the nearest true south satellite that fits my system (linear Ku, FTA, good signal quality).

Then, I monitor the strongest and most consistent TP on the nearest true south satellite and peak the quality level by adjusting the dish elevation and the azimuth.

Then I start stepping across the arc either west or east to locate the satellite that is furthest away from HOME that I can still grab a signal from. It doesn't matter if that sat is east or west of me, I just find the furthest one away that is still showing a good signal.

Then, while monitoring a strong TP on that sat, I adjust ONLY the dish elevation to peak the quality level.

Next, I select the furthest satellite in the opposite direction and adjust ONLY the azimuth aim to peak the quality level on a strong TP on that sat.

I keep repeating the SAME process (from one side of the arc to the other) over and over until I get to the end of the arc in both directions.

You must remember to adjust ONLY ONE angle and the SAME angle while on one side of the arc. It doesn't matter which angle you chose for which side of the arc, just keep the routine the same for the whole process.

I then go back and start from true south and just step through all the satellites once again (without making adjustments) and record the quality level from the main or the selected TPs on each satellite. If I feel that my alignment is not up to par, I will repeat the process, but make finer adjustments until I get it to my satisfaction. Then I lock everything down.

The next step I take is fine adjusting the LNBF focal distance and polarization. There usually isn't much to do here, but a fine tweak for one particular satellite might be helpful to pull in a weak or off target TP.

RADAR

 

[MikeinBaja]

For your Coolsat 6000, you might want to turn on the beeping for alignment, if that would help.
Use the 3rd party firmware in our new Firmware Download Department.
COOLSAT 6000 version .06
For other readers, we also have: Coolsat 5000 v.06 third party
(scroll down on the target page for a list of enhancements)

As for knowing which of the many variables to tweak on your motor & dish, this picture from the Geo-Orbit site may come in handy:

Thanks for the diagram - I remember seeing that before but forgot about it.

I already have the updated firmware installed for the CS, but was really trying to avoid dragging the whole deal up there - but I'm sure that is the right way to get this done. Fortunately, I do have a very little TV to use!

I'm going to continue with the CS boc for now and then switch to the Geosat box after I get it all set.

 

[MikeinBaja]

MikeinBaja,

Here are my tips if you would like to try them. Without switches involved and with the receiver and TV at the dish site......

I like to use a dial inclinometer with a magnetic base and slap that on the belly of the motor to read out the exact motor elevation. Then, subtract that from 90° to know the current motor latitude setting. This should, of course, match your location latitude. Once I get this to match up precisely, I lock it down and never make any further adjustment to it.

I use USALS and tell my receiver where HOME is by entering my latitude and longitude coordinates. I set each satellite to use USALS and I use the MANUAL SCAN mode on my Coolsat 5000 and command the motor to drive to the nearest true south satellite that fits my system (linear Ku, FTA, good signal quality).

Then, I monitor the strongest and most consistent TP on the nearest true south satellite and peak the quality level by adjusting the dish elevation and the azimuth.

Then I start stepping across the arc either west or east to locate the satellite that is furthest away from HOME that I can still grab a signal from. It doesn't matter if that sat is east or west of me, I just find the furthest one away that is still showing a good signal.

Then, while monitoring a strong TP on that sat, I adjust ONLY the dish elevation to peak the quality level.

Next, I select the furthest satellite in the opposite direction and adjust ONLY the azimuth aim to peak the quality level on a strong TP on that sat.

I keep repeating the SAME process (from one side of the arc to the other) over and over until I get to the end of the arc in both directions.

You must remember to adjust ONLY ONE angle and the SAME angle while on one side of the arc. It doesn't matter which angle you chose for which side of the arc, just keep the routine the same for the whole process.

I then go back and start from true south and just step through all the satellites once again (without making adjustments) and record the quality level from the main or the selected TPs on each satellite. If I feel that my alignment is not up to par, I will repeat the process, but make finer adjustments until I get it to my satisfaction. Then I lock everything down.

The next step I take is fine adjusting the LNBF focal distance and polarization. There usually isn't much to do here, but a fine tweak for one particular satellite might be helpful to pull in a weak or off target TP.

RADAR

I'm using the disqc 1.2 rather than USALS since the motor (SG9120B) literature all shows disqc 1.2 with no mention of USALS. I assumed that if the doc didn't state USALS that I couldn't use it???????????

I see what you are saying about "dithering" at the two furthest reaches of the arc and that makes sense.

No work up there today - I'll get back after it on Wednesday.

Thanks to all for the insight!

 

[AcWxRadar]

I'm using the disqc 1.2 rather than USALS since the motor (SG9120B) literature all shows disqc 1.2 with no mention of USALS. I assumed that if the doc didn't state USALS that I couldn't use it???????????

Mike,

The SG9120/B are USALS compatible. USALS makes life so much easier! Once you have the true south lined up, all other sats will be right where they should be (east/west-wise). Then all you have to concentrate on is elevation and with fine tuning (dithering) you will have everything spot on in a short time.

RADAR

 

[MikeinBaja]

Mike,

The SG9120/B are USALS compatible. USALS makes life so much easier! Once you have the true south lined up, all other sats will be right where they should be (east/west-wise). Then all you have to concentrate on is elevation and with fine tuning (dithering) you will have everything spot on in a short time.

RADAR

Well that sure sounds like it will save some time!

Guess that's what I get for reading all the instructions!

 

[AcWxRadar]

MikeinBaja,

It certainly does save a lot of time. If I discount all the prep work (setting up the mast, running cables, hauling all the gear out to the installation site and assembling the dish out of the box) and all I have to do is mount the motor and the dish and align it... I can get the entire arc scribed, every satellite, within 15-20 minutes easily using USALS.

A disadvantage to using DiSEqC 1.2 is that the satellite positions that you find and save, are saved IN the motor itself, not in your receiver. So if something happens to your motor and you need to RESET the motor or replace it, you have to start all over from scratch and find and save EVERY satellite all over again. When you do a motor reset with DiSEqC 1.2, it erases all your stored positions and resets them to the factory stored positions. Most motors come with something like 60 prestored positions, or something like that.

With USALS, if something happens to the motor and you need to RESET the motor, you don't need to do any realignment at all. You just want to ensure that you reset it at the zero degree position (making sure that zero is still at zero). If you have to replace the motor, in either method, you still have to reset the motor latitude and azimuth aiming since you have physically removed the motor. So, neither method provides any advantage here.

Using USALS, no satellite positions are stored anywhere. They are calculated each time when you request a move to one particular satellite. The USALS algorithm takes your latitude and longitude entries and the selected satellite's orbital position and calculates a DiSEqC command to send to the motor to tell it what direction and how far to move from its current position.

RADAR

 

[Anole]

Instead of typing what should be in any good motor manual, let me just point ya to this statement by SatAV:
http://www.satelliteguys.us/free-ai...g9120-motor-only-1-satellite.html#post2478127

And as I recall AcWxRadar wrote up a full document on motor alignment that I used to link to for beginners.
But, I think since then, he's redone it.

 

[AcWxRadar]

I have not rewritten my motor installation guide as of yet (too much work). I think I elluded to the same notion, but never went in to it in detail.

In theory, with USALS, you could use any one satellite to begin to align the system, it does not have to be the true south satellite (in some cases, you cannot use it). But, it is a much easier task if you do, as SatAV stated. The best thing about starting out with the nearest true south satellite for setting up the alignment of the dish is that can avoid an arm wrestling match with gravity. I am speaking purely in a mechanical sense and referring to the center of gravity of the dish.

e.g. If you are arm wrestling someone and your arm is going down, you have the disadvantageous side of leverage and your opponent has the adventageous side.

Hence, when the dish is leaned further to one side or the other, gravity wants to keep pulling on it in that direction. This makes performing finer adjustments a little more tricky because the weight of the dish itself can twist its mounting bracket when the bolts are loosened. Especially with light gauge metal brackets. So, if you make dish elevation adjustments, you should be cautious and (although it is more time consuming to do so) you probably should only make the elevation adjustments when the motor is at top dead center. At TDC, then you only have to worry about the dish elevation falling straight down. Which is where dish assemblies with the screw jack for the elevation are really nice, that prevents the dish from falling when you loosen the elevation bolts/nuts.

With my first offset, Ku band motorized dish (Winegard DS-2076) I fought this for quite a while. I was making dish elevation adjustments at sats on the far edges of the arc and I did not notice that when I loosened the bolts to adjust it, the bracket would twist ever so slightly and I created an additional error point. When I went back to the other side of the arc, I was way off. So I loosened the bolts to readjust and then it twisted the other way. I was going back and forth from one side of the arc to the other and fighting a losing battle.

I finally got a homemade device from Walrus1957 that served as an elevation jacking bolt and installed it on my Winegard dish. Then, if I thought I needed to tweak the dish elevation for a satellite on a far end of the arc, I drove the dish back to TDC and made a very small tweak with this jacking bolt and then drove back to the satellite to check my results.

My newest dish, the GeoSatPro 1.2 meter, is heavier than my Winegard, but the brackets are very stout and they don't flex and twist like that. It also has an elevation jacking bolt from stock.

Just some tips to remember.

RADAR