MPEG4 HD DVR and Home Media Center news:

[LonghornXP]

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The 30 second skip was NOT a hack....it was a programming feature that was
left in the original Tivo software as a hidden "Easter egg", and was never
either pushed by Tivo as a feature, nor removed as a trouble maker...it was
simply ignored..D* removed the feature in a later Tivo software upgrade.

You fail to understand that in the views of the law this wasn't a feature of a DirecTV DVR with Tivo software. The law considers a standalone Tivo box that officially supports a 30 second skip feature different than a DirecTV DVR box "with" a DirecTV branded Tivo software version that doesn't officially support the 30 second skip. DirecTV didn't remove a feature they removed a hack and that is how the law views it. What is funny is that every customer that enabled this hack has actually broken the law as far as the DMCA is concerned. Not that this means anything to anyone of us but its true just as much as you having and losing the 30 second skip feature.

I'm saying this because I don't want fellow browsers thinking that this was an advertising feature and starting problems everywhere. The fact is this isn't a feature of a DirecTV DVR with Tivo period no matter what way you slice it. Now it is true that the 30 second skip is a hack and DirecTV has indeed disabled this hack. Its also true that DirecTV DVRs without Tivo software don't support a 30 second skip as a feature nor as a hack.

With this information at hand the rest is your choice to make as far as buying the product that fits your needs.

 

[bestboff]

First don't take this the wrong way and I do understand how this is a deal breaker for you but please understand that this was never a feature of a DirecTV DVR with Tivo but a software hack of a DirecTV DVR with Tivo. Just make sure you understand the difference. Now if no hack comes about for the new HD DVR boxes than for you it is no doubt a deal breaker but sadly to say don't think that your the majority on this because your not. In the whole scheme of things you mean nothing to DirecTV. I know this sounds harsh but its true. Now besides that I think right now if you get HD locals via OTA antenna without problems your nuts if your not with Dish Network or your cable company right now. Assuming your not a sports fan of course. Right now Dish has better picture quality and more HD channels so your staying with DirecTV for some other reason than a 30 second skip. Because both companies offer this feature (as a feature or via a hack) and have been for quite a while something is holding you to DirecTV when they have bad picture quality and very little HD channel choices with a high price at that.

I'm not picking on you or doubting you but just think about this for a second because I would like to know just for fun what is really keeping you with DirecTV because it can't be their picture quality or the HD offerings or their track record for adding new HD channels. Maybe its the Tivo software but you also seem willing to give that up in a second for the new DirecTV DVR if it has that 30 second skip. I'm just wondering what could be left to keep you with DirecTV for this long besides just price and NFL Sunday Ticket. You must get decent OTA reception or you would have never bought the HD Tivo to start with. These are all just my opinions only and again don't take this personally because I'm just curious what is keeping you because if its something unusual I would love to pass this onto DirecTV so they would know.

I don't have OTA but I live in the Los Angeles area and have "HD lite" for the networks. I was a long time Dish customer and crossed over to Direct when they got the networks here in Los Angeles. I have done everything to get the locals. I put up a huge antenna but because I'm too close to Mt. Wilson I can't pick up a thing. There is a huge mountain in the way. I did pick up San Diego (119 miles away) on a skip which lasted about 10 minutes a day. Kinda tough to watch a game that way. Then I got a BEV box and a broker in Toronto. But then BEV's footprint moved north on one satellite and the system took 30 seconds to change a channel. Then Adelphia finally got the locals in HD and I had cable and Dish. Long story short I have been hassling the HD thing for years. So I don't take offense. IMHO Directv's new PVR is a lesser product than the Tivo. My commitment is up in January and if Dish gets the networks on their system, I'm switching back. Besides Rupert is a scum sucking geezer.

 

[LonghornXP]

I don't have OTA but I live in the Los Angeles area and have "HD lite" for the networks. I was a long time Dish customer and crossed over to Direct when they got the networks here in Los Angeles. I have done everything to get the locals. I put up a huge antenna but because I'm too close to Mt. Wilson I can't pick up a thing. There is a huge mountain in the way. I did pick up San Diego (119 miles away) on a skip which lasted about 10 minutes a day. Kinda tough to watch a game that way. Then I got a BEV box and a broker in Toronto. But then BEV's footprint moved north on one satellite and the system took 30 seconds to change a channel. Then Adelphia finally got the locals in HD and I had cable and Dish. Long story short I have been hassling the HD thing for years. So I don't take offense. IMHO Directv's new PVR is a lesser product than the Tivo. My commitment is up in January and if Dish gets the networks on their system, I'm switching back. Besides Rupert is a scum sucking geezer.

So in simple terms you can't catch a break!

 

[mkatts]

You can't do VoIP over satellite, there's a 1 second lag, unless they plan to do LEO.

Totally wrong. VOIP works just fine over satellite. I built a voip server and used two Cisco 7960G VOIP phones in a local TV stations news trucks. Using the trucks satellite uplink to their studio, then a T1 to my datacenter to connect to the voip server. I made a call from Ohio to Florida with no lag and crystal clear reception in both directions.

But that's a different discussion I guess.

 

[JosephB]

LonghornXP..What do you mean by the way the law views stuff. There are no laws that define or have anything to do with features in set top boxes like the way you describe.

Totally wrong. VOIP works just fine over satellite. I built a voip server and used two Cisco 7960G VOIP phones in a local TV stations news trucks. Using the trucks satellite uplink to their studio, then a T1 to my datacenter to connect to the voip server. I made a call from Ohio to Florida with no lag and crystal clear reception in both directions.

But that's a different discussion I guess.

There's a difference between a commercial or industrial grade satellite uplink trucks and direcway. I know VoIP CAN be done over satellite, just ask the military, they do voice (and while maybe not technically over IP, its surely digital which is all that matters). But, doing something like skype or Vonage over Direcway is VERY different. They were not designed for high latency networks like a satellite uplink, and at least currently, consumer grade internet over satellite isn't very reliable. I would hope that you don't use DirecWay for television uplink.

 

[k2ue]

LonghornXP..What do you mean by the way the law views stuff. There are no laws that define or have anything to do with features in set top boxes like the way you describe.




There's a difference between a commercial or industrial grade satellite uplink trucks and direcway. I know VoIP CAN be done over satellite, just ask the military, they do voice (and while maybe not technically over IP, its surely digital which is all that matters). But, doing something like skype or Vonage over Direcway is VERY different. They were not designed for high latency networks like a satellite uplink, and at least currently, consumer grade internet over satellite isn't very reliable. I would hope that you don't use DirecWay for television uplink.

The Military uses quite a few low orbit satellites, less than thousand miles round-trip, vs. 45,200 miles for geostationary satellites like those used by DirecTV. Voip would be fine with low orbit birds.

 

[rad]

In the early 80's I was using SBS (Satellite Business Systems, an IBM company) that use satellites for POTS long distance calls. While there was no echo the delay cause a real pain for conversations, we ended up talking over each other a lot of the time, thinking the other person was done talking but only was taking a slight pause. Yes, VoIP over satellite would work but IMHO most folks would not be happy with it.

 

[JosephB]

Its the same kind of thing when people are on TV via satellite (like on CNN or MSNBC for example) Larry King is really bad at it, the other person will take a pause and Larry will start talking and they've started and when the delay catches up they're talking over each other. You'd think after a while of doing it that way that the networks would inform guests to wait a little so that the delay doesn't catch them like that.

 

[ocnier]

Okay Longhorn, I have a question. I understand that is no 30 second skip. Since there isn't a 30 second skip, what would be the motivation for not putting one in? It's obviously a desirable feature from the consumer standpoint and can't possibly be that hard to program.

 

[LonghornXP]

Okay Longhorn, I have a question. I understand that is no 30 second skip. Since there isn't a 30 second skip, what would be the motivation for not putting one in? It's obviously a desirable feature from the consumer standpoint and can't possibly be that hard to program.

Simple answer is that Murdock doesn't want this feature because he owns Fox networks that have ads. Why don't the cable companies offer a 30 second skip as well. The fact remains that very few companies have this feature and its because these companies all in some way own broadcast or cable networks with advertising so this hurts them at least in their view. I don't think it makes any difference at all and as such I would rather have them offer this feature but as we all know I nor does anyone else have any power to get this feature added.

 

[ocnier]

I suspected as much. It's kinda stupid really, I'm just going to use fast fwd instead. The end result is still the same. You gotta love corporate ideology in the end. You'd think they would learn by now.

 

[LonghornXP]

I suspected as much. It's kinda stupid really, I'm just going to use fast fwd instead. The end result is still the same. You gotta love corporate ideology in the end. You'd think they would learn by now.

Do they ever learn their lesson......NEVER!

 

[madpoet]

If only someone had the balls anc bucks to put in ReplayTV's commercial skip and litigate it out in court. THey'd win.

 

[vurbano]

Eventually it will be hacked for 30 sec skip somehow. Keep your eyes on DDB

 

[lovswr]

You're kidding, right? But then I've read Doctoral Discertations what were equally bogus. Transmitting "noise" of any given power level is no less subject to FCC regulation than any other type of signal. And anything actually resembling noise cannot be "filtered" out -- it would be indistinguishable from the thermal/atmospheric noise floor and desensitize other systems in the same way. A claim and a fact supported by physical laws are not the same. Where is that company now <grin>. . . ?

Ok k2ue here is something. The Military had a Spread Spectrum Modem, model # AN/FSC-28 (that indicates Army, Navy & Air Force) that was designed & built by Ford/Philco (My Dad's B/W Philco TV still works) back in the mid 70's. It was still in use when I got out of the service in July of 96'. It did exactly what you said is impossible. It modultated a 70MHz carrier, inserted it into the "noise floor" using frequency hopping & a shifting, encrypted code (The noise floor part was actually not a big deal, the encrypted code used words that were like 3000bits long & were really the "magic" part of this device).

This thing was a monster. It took up 4 footprints of floor space, required it's own 14 week training class at Ft Gordon (in addition to the 9 months of basic Satty training that you had to have first) & two(2) operators. It used the standard DFCS II & III birds just like all the older stuff.

Now just before I got out, the Air Force, via Space Command, started rolling out MILSTAR. I was the assistant NCOIC of the first Army installation of a MILSTAR terminal (here in Atlanta at Ft. McPherson) & although the 28 above would produce a noise floor "hunp" when observed on a Spec Anny (that's also assuming you know where to look) the MILSTAR stuff was completely undetectable & would appear as perfectly normal background noise.

edit: spelling & to add this. When I was stationed at the Tactical Space Systems Research Faciltiy at Ft Monmouth, I attended a Military version of an R&D road show for advanced RF equipment. I seem to remember some kind of little hand held satty radio (for use with the Low Orbit birds only) that some Men in Black type guy showed me, that also was in the noise floor.

 

[JPShinn]

So, I am now hearing rumors on the Tivo Community website about a late February release of the HR20. Longhorn, care to comment?

Thx.
John

 

[LonghornXP]

So, I am now hearing rumors on the Tivo Community website about a late February release of the HR20. Longhorn, care to comment?

Thx.
John

Maybe even earlier than that!

 

[hdtvtechno]

Maybe even earlier than that!

If i have enough $$ for it, by the time, then i be first one to get it

 

[k2ue]

Ok k2ue here is something. The Military had a Spread Spectrum Modem, model # AN/FSC-28 (that indicates Army, Navy & Air Force) that was designed & built by Ford/Philco (My Dad's B/W Philco TV still works) back in the mid 70's. It was still in use when I got out of the service in July of 96'. It did exactly what you said is impossible. It modultated a 70MHz carrier, inserted it into the "noise floor" using frequency hopping & a shifting, encrypted code (The noise floor part was actually not a big deal, the encrypted code used words that were like 3000bits long & were really the "magic" part of this device).

This thing was a monster. It took up 4 footprints of floor space, required it's own 14 week training class at Ft Gordon (in addition to the 9 months of basic Satty training that you had to have first) & two(2) operators. It used the standard DFCS II & III birds just like all the older stuff.

Now just before I got out, the Air Force, via Space Command, started rolling out MILSTAR. I was the assistant NCOIC of the first Army installation of a MILSTAR terminal (here in Atlanta at Ft. McPherson) & although the 28 above would produce a noise floor "hunp" when observed on a Spec Anny (that's also assuming you know where to look) the MILSTAR stuff was completely undetectable & would appear as perfectly normal background noise.

edit: spelling & to add this. When I was stationed at the Tactical Space Systems Research Faciltiy at Ft Monmouth, I attended a Military version of an R&D road show for advanced RF equipment. I seem to remember some kind of little hand held satty radio (for use with the Low Orbit birds only) that some Men in Black type guy showed me, that also was in the noise floor.

Such signals are not actually below the noise floor per se, they are below the broadband noise floor, i.e. they can't be seen by a wideband receiver or spectrum analyzer which has a wide noise bandwidth. The matching hopping receiver knows where the signal will be, and can look for it a narrow detection bandwidth, which sees less noise (noise power is K*T*B*R, where B is bandwidth), making the signal visible. No magic at all. And, of course, FCC regs don't apply to the military, or the spooks.

 

[herdfan]

Maybe even earlier than that!

Will it come with the bugs that the R15 has?