Mr. Ergen, some of your customers are leaving...

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video62

Thread Starter
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Sep 26, 2003
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From another topic:
beejaycee said:
I've finally set a deadline for myself. If I don't hear anything positive about the 522 being released to current subscribers, I'm switching on Monday.
I'm in the same boat and am very close to the same decision. I've waited forever for this 522 (I can imagine how those waiting for a 921 feel) and it financially doesn't make any sense to stay with E* any longer when I can get two DirecTivos for very cheap.

I've been with Dish since 1996 and still have a Dishplayer (with $9.99/mo fee), so that should give a clue as to my previous loyalty. Dish just now made my locals available ($5.99/mo), but why do that when I can get them for $1 more per month from DirecTV, on a 'smaller dish' to boot?

I'm the sort of guy that cheers for an underdog... roots for the little guy, sides with the upstart, etc. and that's why in 1996 I went ahead and went with Dish instead of DirecTV. I've really, really tried to ride out the 'hard times' and keep my DishNetwork service, but it has really become difficult to do so. It appears to me that Charlie (and/or the people he hires) haven't a clue about how to manage good customer service or product development and releases.

Circus: The 921 gets "Best of Show" at some electronics show over a year ago, but the product still isn't out. (Yeah, I know they probably 'bought' their award but that's not my point - if you unveil somthing at a show you should be pretty close to shipping it.)

Circus: The 322 and 522 should be flying out into the hands of loyal Dish customers eager to upgrade to the newest gear, but instead we hear "Sorry, DHP customers only" and even then we don't know when the DHPers can get these. Someone in this forum claims hearing a radio commercial for the 522, but there's still no info about it on the Dish website.

Circus: Dish runs a fire sale on the 6000s in prep for rolling out the 811s. The 6000s have pretty much dried up, but where are the 811s?

Circus: Dish rolls out the SuperDish and it turns out that some sections of the country cannot receive the 105 bird on it? Sounds like a major screwup to me!

Circus: Loyal customers eagerly tune in to the next 'Charlie Chat' for full details on new equipment and offerings but instead get to view mere fluff instead of substance, or at least an explanation. Why bother?

All of the above 'circus' items gives me increasing dobut that Dish has a clue about what they are doing. For the size of the company and their revenues they shouldn't be making stupid mistakes such as this.

I know this sounds like the typical "I'm gonna switch from Dish to DirecTV" whiner post, but when customers that are extremely loyal and have been your customer since 1996 and are ready to switch to your competitor you are doing something seriously, seriously wrong in the way you are conducting your business.

I sense that Dish does not place much importance in retaining customers, only in cultivating new ones- at least that's how it seems to me.

I worked 18 years for a computer company that was at one time 2nd only to IBM in revenues. They were incredibly innovative, especially in the area of networking (ever hear of Ethernet? They co-developed it with Xerox and Intel). They eventually became fat with success and complacent- they began to suffer from major managment incompetence and began to focus on pleasing Wall Street analysts instead of focusing on good product development and customer support. They began a downward sprial of reactive, self-inflicted deathly decisions until they were only a thin shell of their former self. Another company (Compaq) bought the remnants in 1998 and they were gone from the face of the earth. (And, ironically, Compaq is now gone as well - swallowed up by HP).

Mr. Ergen, you are not imune to an identical fate with your company.
 
V

video62

Thread Starter
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Sep 26, 2003
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Nope. A Dishplayer 7200, a 5000 and (it came over on the Mayflower) a 2000.
 
B

beejaycee

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Oct 3, 2003
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I'm the sort of guy that cheers for an underdog... roots for the little guy, sides with the upstart, etc.

I wonder how many of us feel/felt that same way and actually use to admire E* for being the scrappy upstart? I'm not a dish-basher, I just want my dual-tuner, house-server pvr. And if I can't have it, I'll settle for 2 DirecTivos at fire-sale prices. But I'll miss rooting for the 'little satellite company that could,' although it has been quite some time since it has been little.
 
Phil T

Phil T

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Sep 8, 2003
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Littleton, Colorado
After being with Dish since April 1997, I switched November 1st for 2 DirectTIVO's at $49.00 each + rebates.

I had wanted duel tuners since the DirecTivos first came out and could wait no longer. Charlie & company have been talking duel tuners for years but the delays and no good deals for current subscribers finally did me in. I also have a 6000 and the promise of being the leader in HD has never come to pass. Its all about feeding the pig now (new subscribers). I hope the upcoming churn numbers will get Dish to rethink its relationship with its existing customers.

Dish has lost its appeal for many long term subscribers
 
Stargazer

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I'll bet there are a lot of curious Dish Network customers that are curious about what the DirecTv service is like, some especially with the DirecTivo's compared to Dish's DVR's.

The same can be said about DirecTv customers. It seems as if some are on one service for a while they automatically assume the other is better especially if it seems new to them and others told them about how great DirecTv/Dish was.
 
Tampa8

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Stargazer said:
I'll bet there are a lot of curious Dish Network customers that are curious about what the DirecTv service is like, some especially with the DirecTivo's compared to Dish's DVR's.

The same can be said about DirecTv customers. It seems as if some are on one service for a while they automatically assume the other is better especially if it seems new to them and others told them about how great DirecTv/Dish was.

Ah yes. The grass is always greener. Video62, you have to remember you only know about the 522 for so long because of these forums. Official release info was quite some time after first reported in the forums. I certainly can't decide what is right for you, but what is so bad to wait longer for it? Because I do not have Direct TV I do not post about it. But many times they have CSR problems just as Dish, and some neutral people are now saying Dish may have better PQ. Of the four people who I know that have Direct TV, ALL are switching to Dish when the locals come, reportedly in December. Three because of complaints, and one just because he is getting a 508 at a very good price from someone who is moving to England. I'm sure the same can be said for some Dish subscribers who think Direct TV is better.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Video62 welcome to DirecTV, 522 will only be available to new Digital Home Plan customers well into next year. I switched to Directv in July and have no complaints except they have a different channel numbering system than DISH has. Service is every bit as good as DISH and most of the programming looks slightly better than DISH.
 
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video62

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Sep 26, 2003
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Tampa8 said:
Video62, you have to remember you only know about the 522 for so long because of these forums. Official release info was quite some time after first reported in the forums.
If "knowing about future equipment for so long" is creating a problem for Dish (in terms of impatient subscribers) then they need to change their disclosure polices... or at least not disclose until they have the bugs worked out and they are merely waiting for production to ramp up.

It was reported in this forum that the 522 was being held up due to having to add code to prevent TV2 from watching items TV1 had recorded (prevent little Jimmy from watching mom & dad's "Undercover Cheerleaders"). To me, this speaks volumes about the design and development process at Dish that they could have missed such a critical core function of such a unit. My point is that Dish is struggling with new gear because they have a poor product development process. Dish should have been the two-tuner king but the 721 price was rediculious and promised features were never delivered, it was buggy and now it's near end-of-life. I still hope that the 522 hits the streets nearly bug-free, which would be a really great thing for Dish as their new DVR track record isn't so hot.

I certainly can't decide what is right for you, but what is so bad to wait longer for it?
How long is long? How high is up? When will a 'regular subscriber' be able to purchase a 522? Can Dish give me a straight answer? Meanwhile, I can walk out the door of nearly any big electronics store with two DirecTV recorders (that have two tuners) for $99 each, that have more recording features than the present single-tuner Dish models. As someone just pointed out, Dish really blew it on two-tuner DVRs and is struggling to catch up.

Also, if I want to upgrade the DirecTivos I can go buy two 120GB hard drives and make them easily a super-capacity box. I doubt the Dish boxes will allow themselves to be upgraded so easily.

As I pointed out in the base post I've been with Dish since 1996 and stuck with them through all of the Dishplayer horrors. Locals are an important part of my decision to switch as it puts me at a crossroads - I have to choose new gear since my legacy gear will not support the SuperDish which is required for my locals. If Dish would say "Hey Mr. Dishplayer owner, since you're going to have to go to SuperDish for locals we'll make you a deal on a 522" they would have my attention. Instead, they have said (via their offering 322 and 522 to DHP new customers only) "you're an existing customer so you are 2nd class".

Goodbye Mr. Ergen, my business goes elsewhere within just a few days...
 
J

James Long

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Oct 24, 2003
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Anonymous said:
Video62 welcome to DirecTV, 522 will only be available to new Digital Home Plan customers well into next year.
Really? Where do you get your information? Left cheek, right cheek or the crack? :rolleyes:

video62 said:
It was reported in this forum that the 522 was being held up due to having to add code to prevent TV2 from watching items TV1 had recorded (prevent little Jimmy from watching mom & dad's "Undercover Cheerleaders").
A good feature. I don't consider it a "critical core function". Perhaps in testing it became more critical of an issue.

JL
 
Stargazer

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Yip, grass always greener on the other side theory, thats what I was looking for. Its just like someone that had a nice sports car and after having it so long its nice to drive something different. Some people stay with the same car (same satellite system) because they feel comfortable with it.
 
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BarryO

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Oct 11, 2003
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Phil T said:
I also have a 6000 and the promise of being the leader in HD has never come to pass.

If E* isn't the leader, then who is? Certainly not DirecTV. Any provider that broadcasts pixellated 1280x1080i and calls it "HDTV" cannot be regarded as a leader. And with the disaster stories about Voom installs, neither can they.

Perhaps you have a really good cable company?
 
Phil T

Phil T

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Sep 8, 2003
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Well I guess I am really talking about the several month string out Dish did with the HD package and the promice of additional programming with a 8PSK module. Then the SuperDish announcement.

I have no desire to continue to pay for upgrades for my 6000. If Superdish is a $200.00+ upgrade for me, (since I no longer subscribe to a AT ?? package) I will sell it.
 
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video62

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Sep 26, 2003
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It's rumored in another topic that the 811 is delayed. This is not so big a deal... those wanting an 811 simply (per Tampa8) can just wait longer, right?
 
Tampa8

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Sorry, I still say so what. Maybe Dish has listened to us and is making sure all the bugs are out of it. May not even be true. I say this not in a mean way - but it seems like you are looking for an excuse to get another service. Just briefly looking over some of the other forums, you can find different complaints about Direct just as well. I called a neighbor who has Direct and asked if he has HD. He does not, and why? He had it, and it was in his words horrible compared to OTA. It had pixelization and was usually not as vivid as OTA in his words. He is getting Dish when his contract is over. That is just one person so I would not claim Direct has bad HD PQ based on just that, but it just shows there are good and bad for each service.
I do say there is no need to be unhappy - so if Direct is really better for you I would do the same if I were in your shoes and switch.
 
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video62

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Sep 26, 2003
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Well, I just made the leap. I want to stress that my case is somewhat peculiar in that I needed to go to SuperDish to get locals and that meant purchase of a SD and a new DVR and new regular receiver.

To get rid of the old Dishplayer 7200 and model 5000 and to go with TWO HDVR2 dual-tuner DVRs and one additional receiver will net me +$280 (after selling old gear on eBay).

For programming that I want (including locals) it will cost me $9 less per month than with Dish, and that's with one more receiver (3 now instead of 2).

This is just the math part... I'm leaving out that my two new DVRs have Tivo software and are readily upgradable.

Let me make this clear: I've been waiting and wanting a model 522 (or two) for a long time. I think that multi-tvs from one box is an innovative concept and leading-edge stuff and I still think so. Is it worth waiting for? Not for me it isn't, not any longer with the deals I can get on DirecTV gear.

If Dish could have come out and said when they would make 522s available to the current subscribers and at what price they might have held me. I would have to think long and hard about investing $800 (for two 522s, based on rumored retail price) plus a SuperDish. Or I may have been willing to switch to a DHP and commit to a year of service, but doing that is a no-no for current subscribers, right?

I may be back in a year Charlie if your grass is greener then. Right now, it looks kind of brown to me.
 
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video62

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Sep 26, 2003
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This topic has convinced me that I indeed made the right move (for me anyway): the 522 may not have "record two shows at once" functionality until summer of 2004.
 

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