Multiple Hoppers-No DVR Sharing

[locoham]

I had 2 HWS and 2 Joeys installed a couple weeks ago. Generally like the system over the 722/612 I had before.

My problem, since day one, the hoppers can't see each others DVRs. When looking at the whole house network, the hoppers can see each other. I have tried the suggestions made on other threads here and on the dish website, no no avail. The most frustrating part is that DISH can't figure it out either.

I knew I was in for trouble when the installer that came back to bury the cable told me that wasn't a feature available on the HWS. Called tech support; no joy. He would send a tech out. Sent the same installer out. The field tech had checked with his supervisor by now and realized that it was a feature of the equipment. He didn't know why they sent him back out because those types of problems are "handled by engineering."

They decided to replace both hoppers. Got a call saying they had narrowed the problem to one hopper. Received the new hopper, activated it, no dvr sharing. Called tech support, nice guy told me that was not a feature of the hopper system. Passed on to Tier 2. Worked with a guy for a couple of hours, with no luck. All of a sudden HWS 1 can see HWS 2 dvr but not vice versa. No one in the company had ever seen this before. He told me to call back in 24 hours and he would put out a note to see if anyone else had seen this problem before. Somehow in the process, they had cut off my HD channels.

Called back the next night, went through everything again but added I had lost my HD channels. The guy ask me which HD channel I had lost. I told him CNN, after putting me on hold, he told me that channel wasn't available in HD. Went to a supervisor at that point. Got the HD channels turned back on. No replies on the main problem though.

Sorry to be so lengthy but wanted to see if anyone else had any suggestions. All other features, including OTA seem to work fine. May come down to replacing the other hopper. BTW, both are on the same software version, etc.

 

[Laddyboy]

Might try replacing the duo node.

 

[Mike_H]

It may help if you better define what "can not see" means.

For example got to Menu/Settings/Network Setup/Whole Home on each hopper and joey. What do you see?
I have a 2 hopper 1 Joey setup.
I see in my living room hopper this:
Current Location: Hopper with Sling, Living Room 1
Detected Devices
Joey, Mater Bedroom (Linked) Good MoCA
Hopper with Sling, Family Room Good MoCA

If I go to DVR
Next to the My Recordings button I see Living Room 1
If I select that button I see two options being Living Room 1 and Family Room (My other hopper).

Note after my install, Family Room showed up in the detected devices, and showed up in the options for DVR, but choosing Family Room would result in a message saying that it could not connect to that receiver because it was not authorized. That problem went away after a couple hours.

Also, the installer said that if things ever get wonky he suggested unplugging (from the wall power) each joey and hopper. Then plug in one hopper at a time letting each one come online before plugging in the next. Then plug in the Joey.

I feel like the MoCA stuff may still need some work.

 

[3HaloODST]

YELLOW - BLUE - 4 on both Hoppers. Do they both see another Hopper and two Joeys? Do they all say "Good MoCA?"

Sent from my iPhone 4S using Forum Runner

 

[harshness]

Generally speaking, it is very important to make it clear how recent "day one" was. Some problems heal themselves after a couple days of not picking at the scab by rebooting or power cycling. The "day one" cycle starts anew with every attempt at fixing the problem be it a reboot or a re-hit.

 

[3HaloODST]

Hopper sharing should work from day one.

 

[navychop]

Sounds like a node problem to me, too. Is it mounted outside or inside?

Sent from my iPhone using SatelliteGuys

 

[bnewt]

Generally speaking, it is very important to make it clear how recent "day one" was. Some problems heal themselves after a couple days of not picking at the scab by rebooting or power cycling. The "day one" cycle starts anew with every attempt at fixing the problem be it a reboot or a re-hit.

understand what you are saying................but don't agree

Why should you have to wait a couple of days to confirm that the installation was correct or if you have to call the tech back to do his work over?????????

 

[Mike_H]

Why should you have to wait a couple of days to confirm that the installation was correct or if you have to call the tech back to do his work over?????????

Couple days seems long, but in general there is something up with the firmware on these machines that causes them to take a long time to self heal after some glitch throws it for a loop. For most stuff you shouldn't have to wait for more than a moment, but for some reason this MoCA stuff is more troublesome.

 

[sethwell]

Could it be possible there is an "isolator" being used somewhere instead of a tap?

 

[tronicone]

My 2 Hoppers don't see each other either.

?I also am having the same problems with a 2 Hopper 1 Joey system. The primary problem is that the 2 Hoppers do not show any detection of each other. I have made multiple dvr recordings on both Hoppers and cannot see the other Hoppers recordings. The Joey sees only the Hopper it is linked to and not the other Hopper. As you stated it has been that way since day 1. Day 1 being the day the system was installed.

A little system info: "Office" Hopper connected to internet through a 6ft network cable, "Den" Hopper connected to internet through it's wifi 802.11n, The "Bedroom" Joey is connected to internet using usb 802.11n network dongle. The Wifi has been bridged. I can watch satellite on all 3 units just like I could on my old system.


The Dish tech and I worked on this issue for 3 hours to no avail. He called tech support, his supervisor, and another Dish tech without success. He left for the day but scheduled a 12-5 revisit for the next day.
The next day we replaced the Duo Node 2 times with no change. Next he swapped out one of the Hoppers with no change. We went back and verified all the cabling making sure there were no splitters or open rf ports, no bad cables or connectors and all fittings were tight. We made sure the Hosts were where they should be and the client was where it should be and still no go.


As a last ditch effort we unplugged both Hoppers and the Joey for 1 minute. After this super reboot we fully brought up the Office Hopper then the Den Hopper and finally the Joey.
Much to our surprise the whole system came up and started operating like it should. Hopper could see Hopper and the Joey could be relinked back and forth between the Hoppers without problem.
So why am I writing on this forum about this experience? Because it didn't last for 24 hours before it is back not communicating again.


There are a lot of questions about how this system operates. When the Hopper 1st came out, 2 Hoppers could not communicate with each other. A software update supposedly fixed that problem. Should this systems video be able to cross communicate without an internet connection? I have read that the internet connections are only necessary for on demand features from Dish. What actually constitutes a MOCA signal? Can something be missing from it causing these communication problems? What is a duo node? How does it work.
The Dish tech I was working with could not get answers to any of these questions.


If I have missed something or have a misunderstanding of how this thing should work please help me out?
Now I will have to call Dish and get them back out here to start all over again.

----------------------------------------( Found the problem at least for my system )---------------------------------------------------

All the symptoms seemed to indicate we had a bad duo node but after trying a total of 3 we thought statistically not likely.
We thought what else could cause the same symptoms of one way signals and data links?
So we started tracing the entire RG6 cabling from the Hoppers to the satellite. We even pulled wall plates.

Guess what we found? The old system used a diplexer to combine ota with sat over the same line. We found a diplexer inline with
one of the Host lines buried in a cabinet where it came in from the outside. Took it off, coupled the open lines back together and rebooted
both Hoppers. After both Hoppers came up it took about 5 minutes before they could see each other but for now they work as they should.

I will monitor the situation to make sure it does not come back again. I had thought it was fixed before.
If it continues to operate normally I will confirm it at a later date.

 

[Mike_H]

?

----------------------------------------( Found the problem at least for my system )---------------------------------------------------

Guess what we found? The old system used a diplexer to combine ota with sat over the same line. We found a diplexer inline with
one of the Host lines buried in a cabinet where it came in from the outside. Took it off, coupled the open lines back together and rebooted
both Hoppers. After both Hoppers came up it took about 5 minutes before they could see each other but for now they work as they should.

I will monitor the situation to make sure it does not come back again. I had thought it was fixed before.
If it continues to operate normally I will confirm it at a later date.

Very interesting. One thought I have is that if that diplexer would have been capped off with a termination resistor I bet things would have started working the same as removing the diplexer.

It makes me wonder if Echostar has a quality problem with the RF radio portion of their receivers such that often enough the problem is the actual equipment so they have techs swap it out. But sometimes the problem can be the wiring in the home. Perhaps they need some tooling that allows a tech to check the viability of the coax with a known good calibration quality device.

 

[Scherrman]

?I also am having the same problems with a 2 Hopper 1 Joey system. The primary problem is that the 2 Hoppers do not show any detection of each other. I have made multiple dvr recordings on both Hoppers and cannot see the other Hoppers recordings. The Joey sees only the Hopper it is linked to and not the other Hopper. As you stated it has been that way since day 1. Day 1 being the day the system was installed.

A little system info: "Office" Hopper connected to internet through a 6ft network cable, "Den" Hopper connected to internet through it's wifi 802.11n, The "Bedroom" Joey is connected to internet using usb 802.11n network dongle. The Wifi has been bridged. I can watch satellite on all 3 units just like I could on my old system.


The Dish tech and I worked on this issue for 3 hours to no avail. He called tech support, his supervisor, and another Dish tech without success. He left for the day but scheduled a 12-5 revisit for the next day.
The next day we replaced the Duo Node 2 times with no change. Next he swapped out one of the Hoppers with no change. We went back and verified all the cabling making sure there were no splitters or open rf ports, no bad cables or connectors and all fittings were tight. We made sure the Hosts were where they should be and the client was where it should be and still no go.


As a last ditch effort we unplugged both Hoppers and the Joey for 1 minute. After this super reboot we fully brought up the Office Hopper then the Den Hopper and finally the Joey.
Much to our surprise the whole system came up and started operating like it should. Hopper could see Hopper and the Joey could be relinked back and forth between the Hoppers without problem.
So why am I writing on this forum about this experience? Because it didn't last for 24 hours before it is back not communicating again.


There are a lot of questions about how this system operates. When the Hopper 1st came out, 2 Hoppers could not communicate with each other. A software update supposedly fixed that problem. Should this systems video be able to cross communicate without an internet connection? I have read that the internet connections are only necessary for on demand features from Dish. What actually constitutes a MOCA signal? Can something be missing from it causing these communication problems? What is a duo node? How does it work.
The Dish tech I was working with could not get answers to any of these questions.


If I have missed something or have a misunderstanding of how this thing should work please help me out?
Now I will have to call Dish and get them back out here to start all over again.

----------------------------------------( Found the problem at least for my system )---------------------------------------------------

All the symptoms seemed to indicate we had a bad duo node but after trying a total of 3 we thought statistically not likely.
We thought what else could cause the same symptoms of one way signals and data links?
So we started tracing the entire RG6 cabling from the Hoppers to the satellite. We even pulled wall plates.

Guess what we found? The old system used a diplexer to combine ota with sat over the same line. We found a diplexer inline with
one of the Host lines buried in a cabinet where it came in from the outside. Took it off, coupled the open lines back together and rebooted
both Hoppers. After both Hoppers came up it took about 5 minutes before they could see each other but for now they work as they should.

I will monitor the situation to make sure it does not come back again. I had thought it was fixed before.
If it continues to operate normally I will confirm it at a later date.

Great, informative post there. This info can be very useful. Shows just how important is is to trace every cable from the Dish to the receivers to make sure it's done correctly.

 

[DishSubLA]

It also shows the importance of watching/noting/participating in ANY A/V installs in our homes or at least asking whoever installer (geek squad, DirecTV, Dish) what equipment they installed so that WE as the home owner know the existence of splitters, diplexers etc. This is the same for all other crafts people who do repairs in our home. We need to know EXACTLY what the plumber did, or electrician or roofer, etc. did and what parts and HOW they did it because we need to inform the next repair/installer as to what was done and how. Crafts people are mighty thankful for the advanced info .

 

[locoham]

It's Fixed

Sorry to be so late responding but have been out of town for two weeks. I appreciate all of the suggestions.

The problem is corrected, thanks to Tronicone. I followed his advice and traced all of the cables. I found some type of splitter/diplexer installed on the line. It had been installed during the original installation several years ago. I took it out, rebooted the hoppers and has worked ever since.

Thanks again foe the advice.

 

[tronicone]

Solved Dual Hopper Moca system follow up information.

?I also am having the same problems with a 2 Hopper 1 Joey system. The primary problem is that the 2 Hoppers do not show any detection of each other. I have made multiple dvr recordings on both Hoppers and cannot see the other Hoppers recordings. The Joey sees only the Hopper it is linked to and not the other Hopper. As you stated it has been that way since day 1. Day 1 being the day the system was installed.

A little system info: "Office" Hopper connected to internet through a 6ft network cable, "Den" Hopper connected to internet through it's wifi 802.11n, The "Bedroom" Joey is connected to internet using usb 802.11n network dongle. The Wifi has been bridged. I can watch satellite on all 3 units just like I could on my old system.


The Dish tech and I worked on this issue for 3 hours to no avail. He called tech support, his supervisor, and another Dish tech without success. He left for the day but scheduled a 12-5 revisit for the next day.
The next day we replaced the Duo Node 2 times with no change. Next he swapped out one of the Hoppers with no change. We went back and verified all the cabling making sure there were no splitters or open rf ports, no bad cables or connectors and all fittings were tight. We made sure the Hosts were where they should be and the client was where it should be and still no go.


As a last ditch effort we unplugged both Hoppers and the Joey for 1 minute. After this super reboot we fully brought up the Office Hopper then the Den Hopper and finally the Joey.
Much to our surprise the whole system came up and started operating like it should. Hopper could see Hopper and the Joey could be relinked back and forth between the Hoppers without problem.
So why am I writing on this forum about this experience? Because it didn't last for 24 hours before it is back not communicating again.


There are a lot of questions about how this system operates. When the Hopper 1st came out, 2 Hoppers could not communicate with each other. A software update supposedly fixed that problem. Should this systems video be able to cross communicate without an internet connection? I have read that the internet connections are only necessary for on demand features from Dish. What actually constitutes a MOCA signal? Can something be missing from it causing these communication problems? What is a duo node? How does it work.
The Dish tech I was working with could not get answers to any of these questions.


If I have missed something or have a misunderstanding of how this thing should work please help me out?
Now I will have to call Dish and get them back out here to start all over again.

----------------------------------------( Found the problem at least for my system )---------------------------------------------------

All the symptoms seemed to indicate we had a bad duo node but after trying a total of 3 we thought statistically not likely.
We thought what else could cause the same symptoms of one way signals and data links?
So we started tracing the entire RG6 cabling from the Hoppers to the satellite. We even pulled wall plates.

Guess what we found? The old system used a diplexer to combine ota with sat over the same line. We found a diplexer inline with
one of the Host lines buried in a cabinet where it came in from the outside. Took it off, coupled the open lines back together and rebooted
both Hoppers. After both Hoppers came up it took about 5 minutes before they could see each other but for now they work as they should.

I will monitor the situation to make sure it does not come back again. I had thought it was fixed before.
If it continues to operate normally I will confirm it at a later date.

----------------------------------------( Follow up information for solved problem)-------------------------------------------------------

For the most part the entire Dish (Moca) system continues to operate as it should. The removal of the diplexer fixed 90% of the issues.
I found official Dish installation instructions and training material stating a diplexer should "Never" be used in a Moca system since it will kill it.

On occasion I still loose Moca communication to one of the units but a simple reset usually takes care of it. Oddly I either have all Green full moca signal or none, never yellow or marginal.
Immediately after a reset everything returns to normal with (GGMSS), great green moca signal strength.

My suspicion is that Dish's moca implementation is Engineered to just barely meet the "MOCA" standard. Any item that even temporarily falls outside the limits causes a moca comm problem.
Hopefully this is controlled by software and over a period of time the intermittent problems will go away.