Music in the Cloud: How to do it?

[diogen]

Does streaming music still have appeal?
A good chunk of today's internet users were born around the time Napster was killed...

Amazon, Google and Apple think so but are going different ways about it.

Apple - based on rumors - made a deal with 3 of the 4 labels and will offer streaming from their iCloud service shortly.

Amazon (first and Google later) introduced their music cloud services without any license deals. Amazon went even as far as to claim they don't need any licenses. Although it was rumored later they did try to negotiate a license.

Google reportedly tried to reach a deal but failed. So both companies essentially offer you a ton of space online with streaming infrastructure in place. Google service is Beta (their favorite...), is free but by invitation only. For example, Joshua Topolsky, former Engadget editor, got an invitation and uploaded 134GB of music (took some 51 hours, 330 songs per hour).

It looks like this "laziness" on both sides: labels - to sue Amazon/Google and "cloud" builders" - to be more active in negotiating a license will last until August when the rebels will face their "judgment" day. This is when the judge is expected to rule in the case EMI against music locker MP3tunes. Google even filed an amicus brief in the case supporting the defendant.

Bottom line: by the time the holiday season rolls in we'll know whether another generation of lawyers doesn't have to worry about job security...

Diogen.

 

[rockymtnhigh]

I got my Google Music beta invite the other day, so I set my desktop to upload my itunes library to "the cloud." Took a day, but I have several thousand songs now in the cloud, and yesterday, I wanted to listen to music on my laptop while working, so I loaded up the browser, and fired up google music. Worked great. I can see this being awesome.

WIll there be lawsuits over this? I guess, but I am playing basically the same stuff as on my iPod, and there is no way for me to "share" it with someone else, without giving up my google account info - and that ain't happening.

 

[mike123abc]

The record lables are not really going to be able to argue this given the Supreme Court decision last year where they said that DVR storage at Cablevision's headquarters (essentially the cloud) was the same as DVR storage at a customer's house and the recordings were fair use.

The advantage that Apple will be able to have over the others is that Apple will be able to have common file streaming. If you buy a song from itunes you are not actually getting a private copy but Apple will stream down a copy whenever you want. So, Apple can save space in the cloud by having only one copy of every song.

But, as a consumer the Amazon/Google is interesting since you do not just have to store songs there, you can stash other stuff there in the cloud as a generic cloud drive.

 

[diogen]

Apple can save space in the cloud by having only one copy of every song.

I believe this is the goal of every "cloud provider"...
And if/when Google and/or Amazon get a license, they would do the same with the tracks they sell.
Called dedup in the virtualization world.

I'm still not sure the supremes will let people store their Napster collections in the Google cloud...

Diogen.

 

[diogen]

So, WWDC speech is done and it turns out Apple will also allow your own music into the iCloud.
What probably was expected to be the main differentiator, ain't...
Apple WWDC 2011 announcements: Mac OS X Lion, iOS 5, and iCloud

Diogen.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

I LOVE the fact that APPLE will take all the music I ripped (off) and convert it to DRM Free 256K tracks for $24.95 a year.

It does not sound like a bad deal to me.

I have ripped most of the Beatles music myself a long time ago and now can have them in 256k bitrate, thanks Apple.

 

[diogen]

It does not sound like a bad deal to me.

Not at all.
My point was, Apple signing deals with all four labels was "front page music news" going into WWDC.

There was no word about such deal (did I miss it?) and I don't think labels would have approved "side-loading" music, especially wholesale $25/year.

If this is what really happened (no deal), the labels are in deep sh!t...

Diogen.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Have a feeling over the next few weeks I will be ripping the hundreds of CD's I have in my basement at 32Kbs that I haven't touched in years just so I can get them upgraded to 256Kbs by Apple.

Again not a bad deal at all.

Plus I just found out my MobileMe Account (which expires in 5 days) has been extended for a year for free... again not a bad deal...

Now I just got to find a place to upload photos as I was using the MobileMe Gallery as it was so easy to upload an album from iPhoto.

 

[diogen]

It looks like Apple decided to join the other guys in rolling the dice waiting for "judgement day".
And make some money in the mean time...

Didn't expect these rumors to be so much off base...

Diogen.

 

[rockymtnhigh]

It looks interesting. I like the idea that anything I have EVER purchases from iTunes is available; considering now if I lose a device, and don't have backups of the files, I am S-O-L.

 

[Hall]

I believe this is the goal of every "cloud provider"...

How well can they do that ? Do they go by ID3 tags to know the artist and song ? If two people rip the same song, using a different ripper, with one set at 128k and the other at 192k, as far as a computer is concerned, they are DIFFERENT songs.

 

[diogen]

How well can they do that ? Do they go by ID3 tags to know the artist and song ?

Don't know, haven't used it.
This issue becomes secondary if you have to chose between web-based and proprietary ways of accessing the "cloud"...

Diogen.

 

[DodgerKing]

How would they be able to tell if the same song or album used by two different people comes from the same CD?

 

[diogen]

How would they be able to tell if the same song or album used by two different people comes from the same CD?

If you are asking me, then again, I don't know.

First, Shazam can recognize a song in analog domain, I don't think what Lala (iTunes Match) does is unique. Apple will sue you, of course, but that's secondary.
Second, is this really needed? Do they run out of storage? In computer network terms, dedup can be useful but is not a game changer.
And third, as I said above, if a technology is a complete lock-in and requires proprietary tools (iTunes) to use it - I'm not interested in the "magic" of this technology...

Diogen.

 

[jayn_j]

I guess I may be the only one that is bothered by the fact that we willingly jump on a bandwagon where we give up control of content we legally own.

Since Apple/Google/whomever would be owning the physical media, they will control the content. If I purchase a CD or BluRay, I can be fairly confident that the content will never change. If it is stored on a cloud and these companies own and stream the master copy, it can be changed whenever the political winds blow. I can present numerous examples where music or a film (more common) have changed due to external pressures.

1. A number of films were re-edited after 9-11 to remove images of the twin towers. This included films already in video distribution.
2. The event where Amazon recalled the kindle book because it turned out it wasn't public domain. They disabled the copies that had already been purchased.
3. Any number of films where an actor/actress has done something in a film and later regretted it after they became famous. They have the power to "make it never happened"
4. Hans shot first. (or open/close the blast doors)
5. In the film version of the musical 1776, 8 minutes of the film and the musical number "Cool, Conservative Men" were removed after the roadshow distribution because Nixon objected to the presentation of revolutionary conservatives and placed pressure on the studio.

Author Connie Willis wrote a book on the subject 20 years ago titled "ReMake". Not her best work, but it is aimed squarely at this problem. Movie distribution has evolved to a cloud model, and the main character is a film editor that has been contracted to remove all references to smoking and drinking from classic movies. Connie spends pages on the issues with making Casablanca squeeky clean. Ironically, the book is available on Amazon in a Kindle edition.

 

[diogen]

I guess I may be the only one...

You are not.
To be accurate, nobody makes you store all your audio in the cloud. Yet...
And that means today it's just a glorified backup system.

But the push will be to do just that.
And most likely, over time it will succeed. Convenience trumps everything...

Eric Blair (aka George Orwell) was a smart guy...

Diogen.

 

[jayn_j]

You are not.
To be accurate, nobody makes you store all your audio in the cloud. Yet...
And that means today it's just a glorified backup system.

But the push will be to do just that.
And most likely, over time it will succeed. Convenience trumps everything...

Eric Blair (aka George Orwell) was a smart guy...

Diogen.

Actually, I was responding to Mike's comments in response #3 where he said that Google was looking at a single copy linked to a license. That was followed up by Scott looking forward to the 128kb conversion, which would also be linked to a master copy. That would be exactly the situation I was discussing.

 

[yaz96]

Author Connie Willis wrote a book on the subject 20 years ago titled "ReMake". Not her best work, but it is aimed squarely at this problem. Movie distribution has evolved to a cloud model, and the main character is a film editor that has been contracted to remove all references to smoking and drinking from classic movies. Connie spends pages on the issues with making Casablanca squeeky clean. Ironically, the book is available on Amazon in a Kindle edition.

Completely off-topic -

Connie Willis is the wife of my high school physics teacher. Knew her BEFORE she was a big SF author. Really nerdy! And NOW, a great author! Probably still nerdy!

 

[Hall]

That would be exactly the situation I was discussing.

What about your original copies ?

 

[cybok0]

if a technology is a complete lock-in and requires proprietary tools (iTunes) to use it - I'm not interested in the "magic" of this technology...

Diogen.

I agree