My install experience - not great (1 Viewer)

kelton325

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
Feb 6, 2006
97
0
Circleville, OH
My install experience - TERRIBLE

I just got a 622 installed today, and I love it. I posted my review on the Review thread: http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?p=508410#post508410

If only the install would've been a better experience...

Was originally scheduled for 3/12, Noon - 5. They called Wednesday and asked if they could come 3/11 Noon - 5... great I say! They call about Noon and tell me they'll be there around 1:30, which they were... good! This was a private outfit, not DNSC.

They did a good job of hiding the Dish 1000 so it wasn't noticable from the street. I showed them exactly where I wanted it so that's no surprise. They did a decent job of hiding the cable so it didn't stick out badly.

One of the guys threw down a lit cigarette onto dead leaves. We have a moderate risk of runaway fires in my neighborhood due to lots of trees and leaves on the ground. I probably would not have any noticed this if other problems hadn't happened, but it just rubbed me the wrong way. The guy that installed my WildBlue system packed out his cigarette butts - a small but impressive thing that shows you care.

One guy peaked the 1000 while the other worked inside. I had it all set up for them inside, so that job was a breeze. Activation took 2 phone calls, but didn't take long.

No drip loops anywhere. Not by the dish, not by the ground block, not by the house entrance. I'm not sure if I should be worried about this or not.

At first TV2 had a really snowy picture and no sound. He spent 15 minutes working on it, till his partner realized he was 1 channel too high.

Neither of them could get remote 2 to work with my Zenith TV. After they left, it took me 2 minutes from the time I opened the instruction manual till I had it successfully programmed. No kidding on the 2 minutes - I was watching the clock because I was in a rush and that's what it really took.

The "orientation on operation of equipment" portion of the install consisted of "you got any questions?". Uh, no - I'll take it from here thanks.

Here's the big screw-up, which is partially my fault for not checking before they left... None of the channels on 110 would come up. Go into point dish, guess what - signal of 30 for 110, constantly dropping to 0. Call Dish Network Tech Support, nice guy there tries some things, then says the installers need to come back. He calls them and says they'll be calling me to come back tonight. This is about 5:30. I figured these guys were at the bar by 5:30, so I went up on the roof and fiddled around with it and I was able to get 110 up to 50, which is enough for lock. Good thing I didn't wait - it's 12:45 AM right now and they still haven't called. Right now I have 110 @ 50 sig strenghth, 119 @ 93, and 129 @ 68. This needs work, as I'm sure the first cloudy day will wipe out 110. I think I'll find a good helper, get out some walkie talkies, and finish peaking it myself.

I know this sounds like a rant on how bad the install was, but I know that mistakes are made that you can't expect everyone to be perfect. I make plenty of mistakes in my job, but I try to learn from them. My intent in posting this is so others can learn about some areas to watch for when they get installs, especially those totally new to DBS like me. I guess my problem is that I am a perfectionist, and I wish Dish would've just sent me the equipment with the 622 that came Monday and let me do it all myself. I would've been happier since I'm so picky, they would've been happier cause they wouldn't have to deal with me, and I would've had it done sooner. I've ended up doing half of it anyway, so why not cut out the middle-man for those who want to do it themselves? I just didn't get the feel they were really trying very hard.

I've searched the board for some tips to dial in the 1000, but would welcome any specific feedback based on the strengths I'm seeing. I might call my WildBlue installer to see if he can come peak my E* dish.
 
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iceshark

SatelliteGuys Pro
May 10, 2004
533
0
Pacific Northwest
The best part is learning to do it yourself so you dont need bozos like you got. I used to install big dish systems and I know there are more good then bad installers. But when you get the BAD it bites. NO drip loops I would make them run them It is totally not acceptable to not peak each satellite to best of the install locations ability. What morons!

Make em get it right!

Good post, thanks!
 

abricko

SatelliteGuys Pro
Feb 12, 2006
559
0
Greater Los Angeles area.
my installer had never installed a 1000 dish, and the 622, he had a meter and and still screwed up aiming... he finally figured it out and spent like 30 minutes here watching my hdtv... and tried to sell me a *black box* and then tried to explain how it's not illegal and the signal is free to air... i tried to explain to him receiving the signal is not the illegal part it's the breaking the encryption that makes it illegal... and then i said why would i want a SD blackbox anyway i ordered the 622 for HD / DVR purposes... he finally left and i was happy he was gone, i went upstairs and tweaked the setup a little... this is why i tell dish i don't need your installers, i can do it myself, it's installers like these which give most a bad reputation... i too used to have a C / KU band dish and been through real complications with satellite installation... these DBS installs are EASY! you can do it with a simple compass!
 

Peter Iowa

SatelliteGuys Guru
Jan 19, 2006
136
0
central US
Little dishes are usually easy - but you see DISH makes money any which way
regardless, and the good installers and good customers get the shaft so DISH
can make more money. These foreign call centers are very lucrative too but if they
make mistakes, TOO BAD - it's the customer's fault!
 

wobbie

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 22, 2004
569
0
Kelton.. first of all you have EVERY right to be upset... imagine what you would do to your mechanic if he did this to your car?? I would call Dish and let them know what happened.. guys like this need to be trained properly regardless of who they work for or with or they need to find a different trade. As far as aiming a D1000 I use the Dual LNB on the 119 then when I get that peaked I move it to the 110 then the 129 and try to "Balance" the signal strenghts.
 

kelton325

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
Feb 6, 2006
97
0
Circleville, OH
wobbie said:
As far as aiming a D1000 I use the Dual LNB on the 119 then when I get that peaked I move it to the 110 then the 129 and try to "Balance" the signal strenghts.

Thanks for the info... so after you peak the 119, what is the next step? Do you then just fine tune for 110 or 129 by moving the dish around slightly? Or do you move around the connections on the LNB's of the Dish 1000?
 

kelton325

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
Feb 6, 2006
97
0
Circleville, OH
Update

So we had major storms move through last night, strong enough that the Dish reception should have been impacted. No however, it's just sprinkling and 110 is totally out, 119 has dropped to 80, and 129 is at 70. It doesn't surprise me - they probably didn't tighten down the freaking bolts enough to prevent wind from moving it. Hopefully it'll dry up soon so I can get up on the rough and re-peak it using the method Wobbie described above.
 

wobbie

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 22, 2004
569
0
Kelton, just use the Dual LNB on the 119 to check signal strenght..then move it to the 110 check signal strenght.... then to the 129. If you do not have a meter write them down. After that just tweek the dish to get a good balance. Up down, maybe move the scew a LITTLE. Up here in Omaha with a 322 I'm usually in the 90 to 95 range for 119&110 and in the mid 70's for 129. I have never gotten higher then 80 on 129 with good signals on 110&119. Keep us posted
 

kelton325

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
Feb 6, 2006
97
0
Circleville, OH
Dish 1000 Mast isn't plumb - need help!

It turns out the mast is NOT plumb. It was leaning to far forward in the direction the dish was pointing, which meant the elevation had to be increased to hit the bird. That was easy to fix as I loosened the bolt in the plate connecting to the roof and pushed it back. The more challenging problem is that it's leaning too far to the left (if you're looking from behind the dish). I am now plumb on the side that I could manipulate the mast backward & forward, but if I move the level 90 degrees around the mast, it is not plumb. The attached picture shows this. So, I attempted to work around this issue to see what happened. I tried and tried to get lock on 110 & 119, but couldn't even get those two at the same time. I tried following the advice above and peaked 119, then tried to slightly move (up/down, left/right, skew up/down) to catch 110, but I could only get one or the other, not both. I assume this is a skew issue since I can see each individually, but not together. I'd like to at least get the mast to plumb, then start over with a 119 peak.

I have 3 questions...

Should the skew be over or under stated to account for being off plumb? How do I calculate the amount of the over/under?

Is there any other way I can adjust the mast to compensate for the lean to the left? Should I unscrew the mounting plate and reposition it so that the longer side points the direction of the slope of the roof? The downsloping roof faces east, and the dish is facing south.

I was using transponder 13 to point - which transponder is the best for each Sat (my location is 43113)? Does it matter?

Thanks for any info!
 

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wobbie

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 22, 2004
569
0
If they did this when they installed the dish I would call them back.. but if you want to do it that is okay too. Do as ypou mentioned, reposition the Dish mount for it is sloping with the roof. Before you set any screws just take a second and make sure the the mast will go plumb level. Then set the dish back to the scew and elevation that was originally set andgo from there.
 

Van

SatelliteGuys Master
Jul 8, 2004
9,316
1
Virginia Beach
Tune off the 129, its your weakest signal, but if your 110 is that off then the skew is most likely wrong or there is an obstruction of the 110 path. Tuning through each lnbf is a rooky mistake and does very very little to make things better, it would only help if you had an individual dish for each satellite. As it is your install needs to be redone, there needs to be drip loops at the dish, the point of entry, at the ground block ( if there is even a ground block ) and slack at the receiver for obvious reasons.

The techs should not have been smoking while on your jobsite or atleast not infront of you, that is very unprofessional to say the least and a foul habit as it is, might as well be walking around with crap smeared on them. Dont trust a compas to tell you that its clear to do an install, it just gives you the general direction just as asking the old guy at the store how to get to that house out on route 9, " yea go down bout 2 or 3 miles and once you see the red barn with the old cow make a right turn..." relying on a compas is another rooky mistake becuase of the actual angle the sat is located at and the issue of elevation coming down into the reflector. Call dish back and tell them you want your install fixed or your walking and to have a dish tech come out this time.
 

Tom Bombadil

Supporting Founder
Supporting Founder
May 5, 2005
3,601
1
Chicago-Milwaukee Region
abricko said:
my installer had never installed a 1000 dish, and the 622, he had a meter and and still screwed up aiming... he finally figured it out and spent like 30 minutes here watching my hdtv... and tried to sell me a *black box* and then tried to explain how it's not illegal and the signal is free to air...

The installer that Dish sent to your house tried to sell you a black box to hack Dish programming with????

Or would it hack your local cable?

Never heard this one before.
 

kelton325

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
Feb 6, 2006
97
0
Circleville, OH
Well, I finally got it figured out. I re-oriented the mounting plate to point with the elevation of the roof, and adjusted it to plumb. I re-dialed the dish to the prescribed skew and elevation, and sat it on the now plumb mast. I found 119 without too much trouble and peaked it out. I played with the elevation and even tweaked skew a bit to max it out at about 101. It was cloudy as storms have been moving through, so I think that is a pretty good signal. I played around a bit trying to find 110 until I realized I should have run a check switch. As soon as I ran the check switch, BINGO! All 3 birds were showing OK! I tweaked a bit more to bring 129 up from 59 to about 79. 110 is about the same now.

I'm now sitting and watching beautiful TNT HD on my 622 :)

Someone from the install place was supposed to come back out today to fix it, but he cancelled because of weather. It was pretty bad - I probably shouldn't have been up on the roof but wanted to get this all worked out.

The question now is whether I make them come anyway tomorrow to re-run the cable and add drip loops... what problems do I risk if I go on without those?
 

wobbie

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 22, 2004
569
0
Hell, Kelton... they cancelled today because of the weather, yet you were out there fixing their install??? Heck yes I'd have them come out tommorrow.... of course there isn't a charge?? Right?? Then while they are rerunning the cables for you ..... make sure they don't touch the dish LOL.... you can keep an eye on them and make sure they are doing that part correctly... then when they are done running the cables you can have them sit down for a quick smoke as you explain to them how to setup and aim a D1000. :) Anyway.... what numbers do you have on the three birds and also, glad to hear you got em going.... sorry they put you thru all the ehadaches... was that DNSC??
 

kelton325

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
Feb 6, 2006
97
0
Circleville, OH
wobbie said:
Hell, Kelton... they cancelled today because of the weather, yet you were out there fixing their install???

It probably wasn't the smartest thing I've ever done :) It was raining on and off, and there was some lightning popping up right when I was finishing up. I live in a big woods with lots of trees over 50' tall, so I was safe, right? :rolleyes:

wobbie said:
then when they are done running the cables you can have them sit down for a quick smoke as you explain to them how to setup and aim a D1000

I know... It's crazy that a complete rookie like myself was able to do a better job than the 2 guys they sent. I wouldn't have been able to do it without the help from this site, specifically your help Wobbie! The Dish 1000 install guide was a big help too. If those directions are followed, then it's pretty straightforward.

wobbie said:
Anyway.... what numbers do you have on the three birds and also, glad to hear you got em going.... sorry they put you thru all the ehadaches... was that DNSC??

Mostly cloudy, winds 15-25 mph.

129 = 78
119 = 93
110 = 77

I'm hoping that in clear weather these will turn into 95/110/95 strengths. What are your thoughts on these results?

We had heavy storms earlier tonight that did knock me out for about 5 minutes. It was directly under a red patch on my local OTA's radar. It also knocked out my WildBlue, which very rarely goes down, so I don't think it was my pointing job.

I did have one other question - When I tightened down the mounting clamp all the way, it pulled it slightly off plumb. I loosened one side slightly and that allowed it back into plumb. Is there a good way to "prop" up one side of the clamp? I was thinking maybe put a steel washer, or some other piece of something under that side so I can tighthen down the mast, but not pull it out of plumb.

Thanks again for all the great help Wobbie!!! :up
 

Van

SatelliteGuys Master
Jul 8, 2004
9,316
1
Virginia Beach
Nice luck on your fix it work though I dont recommend getting up on your own roof but still nice work. Your signal of 79 on the 129 is one of the better Ive seen, your 110 should be higher so you may want to adjust the skew a few degrea's one way or the other and that may bring in the 110 even more. Since the installer cancelled becuase of weather then its obvious its not a direct employed dish tech, we very very rarely get to cancel becuase of weather and I can count 2 1 full day and 2 partial days that my office has cancelled in the last 6 years due to weather.
 

wobbie

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 22, 2004
569
0
Kelton, something like a steel washer should be okay. I've used door shims before. Just be sure that the screw or lag bolts are are setting good if you are backing them out and retightening them. Also be sure that you are using some type of sealant around the screws... After you get it plumb, that may help the 110.. you'll probably lose a little on the 129 but as VAN said your current 78 is very good but the 110 should be a tad higher
 

Yaamon

New Member
Mar 14, 2006
1
0
Suggestions

Hi kelton great job on getting your dish tweaked by yourself. Good job.

Normally the signal should be about the same from 110 and 119. Different transponders have different strength but normally they are within 5% of each other. Well 129' is a different story.:rolleyes:

I have a few suggestions if you want to try. I have been installing dishes from 1985 yes those huge 10’ mesh C band satellite and dss since 1996.

Normally when you tighten the satellite J mount it should not tilt left or right (horizontally). If you have that problem as someone said use washers between the screw and the mount and not the roof. The J mount you can move up and down to adjust for almost any angle on a roof. This has to be plumb.

Do not use regular silicone to seal the screws. They dry out does not seal properly over time, plus it is not designed for that purpose. Go to Home depot and but a tube of roof tar sealant. It’s normally black and designed for roof. I usually put under the base and on the thread of the screw and screw it in the roof.

With someone in the house helping you line up for 119’ for max signal. Move the dish slightly to the left or right and also the elevation up or down a degree or two if necessary. Once this is done tighten up those bolts.

The reason why you line up for 119’ is that this satellite is in the center of the dish and when you adjust the skew it does not really affect the signal from the center of the dish.

Then you adjust the skew on the dish a little higher or lower this will tune in 110' and 129' the dish has to be point on an arc. The skew will affect the signal on 110’ and 129' with 119 being in the middle that signal will not really be affected as you are pivoting the dish to get in the two outer satellites.

Hope this helps. Good luck. :)
 
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kelton325

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
Feb 6, 2006
97
0
Circleville, OH
Thank you so much everyone for all of the terrific information!

As I was going through all this to get the thing working, I have been back & forth with the original installer to come back out. Even though I had dialed it in, I was insisting they come back to max out the peak and re-run the cable to include drip loops. So, he was supposed to come at 4PM. Not between 4 and something - 4PM. No problem, my wife can skip what she was going to do and be home after work to wait. I tell him that the Dish is now working, but I would like to have him hook up his meter and see if he can max it out. I also told him I wanted the drip loops at the dish and at the house entrance. He said those are only needed if water was running into the Dish arm. I said that is WAS running into the Dish arm. I felt like adding "Where the hell was it supposed to run when the wire comes out the top of the mast and does a big circle right into the damn arm?!" I'm not that big a prick though, so I just said that it needed to be added and I'd like it done. He said he would do it.

Well, 4PM comes and goes. I'm at work and in meetings so I'm assuming it's under control. I get a call at 4:55 that I can't answer (In a meeting) telling me he is running late. I get the voicemail, call him back 20 mins later and of course get his voicemail. Would've been nice if he could've called when he knew he was going to be late, instead of 55 minutes after he was supposed to be there. I call my wife and tell her that he may not be coming. She gets real pissed because not only was she waiting around, she's had to deal with reception problems the past few days, and also me screwing around trying to get the thing working, and listening to me bitch about it. She calls Dish directly and complains, gets a nice guy from Tech Support. He tries to call the office of the contractor, and he gets a phone disconnected message. He confirmed the number with my wife and his matched what we have on the contract. Great, the place is probably out of business. He then schedules a Field Manager for Saturday 8-12. After all this (45 mins or so), the installer calls me back to ask if I still want him to come out, that it was totally OK if I wanted to reschedule for another day. It was like he was wanting me to put it off for another day. No way were we blocking off another 2-4 hours to sit and wait for him to not come. I tell him that my wife was upset about all the problems, and called Dish, and they were sending out the manager. I told him that since we've had so many problems with this install, he didn't need to worry about coming back. He just said, "OK, I'll inform the office". No apology, no questions about what he could do to make it right, nothing. Just didn't care. He was probably happy he was done for the day.

Well, the field manager better get it right. If not, there will probably be another 622 back in circulation because my wife is on the war path.
 

wobbie

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 22, 2004
569
0
Hey Kelton...... hopefully Dish will send a field manager and this will be all noted and taken care of Saturday...... Other then that... I commend you for hanging in there...... sorry about the pissed off wife though.
 

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