My Take on PQ with the Harmonic Encoders

DarrellP

DarrellP

Thread Starter
I Think, therefore, I am.
Supporting Founder
Nov 6, 2003
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Salem, OR
First I want to ask Sean or other moderators; Is Voom using statistical multiplexing with these encoders? It sure doesn't seem like they are.

First thing I noticed: In the Surf Bar or EPG there is ringing of some sort in the lettering, I never noticed that before. It looks like text on an SD channel. SD lettering never looks clean and this is how the surf bar looks.

I started out trying to assess each channel individually but came to the conclusion that they are identical with the variable being the material that is being shown at the moment.

The big thing is that there are NO MORE SKEETERS :D Hallelujah Voom!!

As long as there is slow movement or a static image, the picture is fantastic, I am very happy with it, but as soon as a scene changes or there is quick movement, softening or pixelation occurs. World Sport was downright horrible trying to watch soccer or promos for sports.

Equator is noise free and the noise I used to spot in the microphone mesh on Rave is gone. The wires inside a piano used to have noise and now they don't. It's the fine detail like this that used to drive me up a wall and now it's the pixelation. I hope they can fine tune them to take care of this. I noticed that channel 700 remains cleaner with movement than the other HD channels do.

SD: What can I say? They all suck. There used to be some good looking SD channels like TCM, AMC, IFC, WE, Oxygen, Soap and a few others. I only browsed them very quickly and every single channel looked bad or worse to me than they had previously. Soap used to look almost HD, now it looks horrible. Every single channel pixelated with any movement.

If this is the future of Voom, forget it, it's not worth keeping. I hope they are still tweaking because if they just pile more channels on top of what they have, they are just going to have a pile of mush. :mad:

So get on it, Voom and keep tweaking. Anty up some bandwidth and concentrate on quality before quantity, after all that's what you advertise so live up to it and I will be a happy camper. :yes

I will continue to monitor HD & SD and look for improvements.

BTW, I played hookie this afternoon so I could do this. ;) Happy Vooming, ya'll. :p
 
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bradley

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jun 9, 2004
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I concur... March of 04, all SD channels were impressive with the exception of SpikeTV; now they're basically unviewable.
 
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bradley

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jun 9, 2004
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I concur... March of 04, all SD channel quality was impressive.
 
W

Walter L.

Supporting Founder
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Mar 29, 2004
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Portland, Oregon
Darrell, I think that the encoders simply need tweaking. Unfortunately, I don't think the VOOM enginners would feel very motivated to work on that these days, maybe after Monday, if VOOM survives.
 
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Sean Mota

SatelliteGuys Master
Supporting Founder
Sep 8, 2003
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Darrellp,

there were some work done today. There's more to be done.
 
G

gutter

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Supporting Founder
May 26, 2004
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Sean I think you said this already but heavy pixeling on HDNEWS on dissolves from one scene to another. Otherwise the edges look crisp and blacks seem blacker. But we all have different TV's. Mine is a DLP
 
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SmiGump

Active SatelliteGuys Member
Apr 21, 2004
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Virginia
DarrellP said:
First thing I noticed: In the Surf Bar or EPG there is ringing of some sort in the lettering, I never noticed that before. It looks like text on an SD channel. SD lettering never looks clean and this is how the surf bar looks.

Don't see how the Surf Bar lettering changed. This is solely generated by the STB and has nothing to do with the signal received. Are you still seeing this?
 
A

aboali

Well-Known SatelliteGuys Member
Jan 18, 2005
31
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i dont have an hdtv only a normal 30in and everything looks the same to me (good quality)
 
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ram1220

SatelliteGuys Pro
Apr 14, 2004
269
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Allen, Texas
I've pretty much noticed exactly what Darryl has mentioned. One thing I'd like to add though. On HDNews I'm seeing my picture jump now. An example is when they put up the scores when doing the sports. The list of teams and the scores jumps all over. I didn't see this before the new encoders.
Voom if this is what our picture is going to be then go back to the old encoders. Please don't go the way of D and E and give us more channels only to degrade the PQ. I know there is some tweaking to do, but give us the PQ we should be getting.
 
J

joemama

SatelliteGuys Family
May 21, 2004
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Seems like they should have figured out the encoders before they lit them up and punished their viewers.
 
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Sean Mota

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Sep 8, 2003
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New York City
joemama said:
Seems like they should have figured out the encoders before they lit them up and punished their viewers.

That's nice... Have you ever tweaked one of these or work with them. Please don't speak without knowing what is involved.
 
DarrellP

DarrellP

Thread Starter
I Think, therefore, I am.
Supporting Founder
Nov 6, 2003
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Salem, OR
SmiGump said:
Don't see how the Surf Bar lettering changed. This is solely generated by the STB and has nothing to do with the signal received. Are you still seeing this?
I was wondering about that. I may not have noticed it before. :eek:

Sean, I watched Microcosmos tonight and it looked awesome.

Today when I watched HDN, when they placed the graphics over the picture of the Earth, there was always pixelation when the graphics changed.
 
DarrellP

DarrellP

Thread Starter
I Think, therefore, I am.
Supporting Founder
Nov 6, 2003
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Salem, OR
aboali said:
i dont have an hdtv only a normal 30in and everything looks the same to me (good quality)
You always experience a better picture when something is downrezzed, that's why I leave my stb on 1080i even though my pj is native 720p, I seem to get a more detailed image.
 
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richard_rd

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 22, 2004
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DarrellP said:
You always experience a better picture when something is downrezzed, that's why I leave my stb on 1080i even though my pj is native 720p, I seem to get a more detailed image.

Your projector is doing the scaling and interlacing from 1080i to 720p, instead of the voom stb in that case.

What you are saying is that the projector has a better scaler/interlacer then the voom stb. I have an Infocus projector and i let it do the scaling also because it uses the Faroudja scaler/interlacer which is one of the best in the industry at converting between differant formats (ie... 1080i to 720p, 480i to 720p).
 
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JimP

SatelliteGuys Pro
Apr 8, 2004
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Wetumpka, AL
Just thought of this after posting in the thread about stating what connectivity one is using and their display's native resolution.

With the new encoders in place, has anyone gone back to see if there was more of a difference between component and DVI??

From a technical standpoint, would any of that change??
 
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joemama

SatelliteGuys Family
May 21, 2004
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Sean Mota said:
That's nice... Have you ever tweaked one of these or work with them. Please don't speak without knowing what is involved.

I do know what's involved and I know that other providers test any major changes on closed systems before they go live.
 
S

Sean Mota

SatelliteGuys Master
Supporting Founder
Sep 8, 2003
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New York City
joemama said:
I do know what's involved and I know that other providers test any major changes on closed systems before they go live.

Ok enlighten us and enlighten the engineers how to tweak these Harmonic Encoders maybe your suggestions will lead them in the right direction. Be specific and as technical as possible since the engineers are reading this and understand the technical language of these encoders. Give it a shot. We are waiting.
 
J

JimP

SatelliteGuys Pro
Apr 8, 2004
532
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Wetumpka, AL
For the technically inclined.

By migrating to the harmonic encoders, doesn't that mean that bandwidth can be reduced by roughly two thirds when MPEG 4 is implemented??

If so, then selling Rainbow 1 to E*, and only leasing back enough transponders and associated equipment to support the reduced bandwith requirements should be a good way of reducing cost and could help Voom or its successor company survive.

Any thoughts??

P.S. Joemama, you're an idiot.(just kidding)
 

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