Native resolution passthrough?

[pduncan]

And yes, I'm planning on moving up to a "2007 HD TV set" but I'm still convinced that my CRT (Sony XBR) has a better picture than almost anything out there these days. LCDs look sterile to me, and while Plasmas are better, I still think a CRT offers a better picture quality. Completely subjective, of course, but it's my TV so I can be subjective about it...

BRAVO, kstile...., Bravo!!

Unless you have seen a Sony XBR CRT in HD, you have NO idea what your missing compared to what is currently out there for picture quality!


Direct does it, Comcast Does it, Insight Does it, AT&T U-Verse does it......... why not Dish??

 

[BuddyBoy]

Native passthru is needed for those few channels (mostly sports) that are progressive scan. My 622 is set for 1080i so that my 1080p set gets the highest resolution but when viewing a progrssive scan channel, I want my set to display it properly without having to remember which channels are 720p and manually change the 622's settings to match. The motion blur is considerably reduced with progressive scan.

Bingo. My display is 1080p also; converting 720p to 1080i would result in the loss of 25% of the scanlines per frame (720 down to 540). Why the hell would I want to do that?

I can remember which channels are 720p, but I don't like having to switch it in the menu all the time. I'd rather it happen automatically as I tune the new channel.

 

[usacomp2k3]

What I really wish is that they would just release a receiver that supports 1080p output. I'm fine with the receiver handling all the scaling, but I am in agreement with those complaining about losing quality in the 1080i->720p conversion and losing the motion in the 720p->1080i conversion. (not to mention the fact that my display doesn't have a deinterlacer, so I can't output 1080i)

I was hoping that at CES they would unveil an 822 (I have the 722) that supported 1080p output. However, I guess that's not high enough on their list of priorities, so oh well. That said, with the majority of people having LCD's, 1080i is actually close to a useless output mode. They should just replace it with 1080p.

Sorry for the slightly complaining first-post. Just had to get it out.

 

[lakebum431]

I was hoping that at CES they would unveil an 822 (I have the 722) that supported 1080p output. However, I guess that's not high enough on their list of priorities, so oh well. That said, with the majority of people having LCD's, 1080i is actually close to a useless output mode. They should just replace it with 1080p.

Why would they bother doing that since there is still zero broadcast content in 1080p? Remember E* is in the business of selling TV programing. If you want non 1080p content scaled to 1080p to match a display let the display or a an AV receiver do the scaling. Until there are some channels that are sending out a 1080p signal there is no point in E* making a receiver that does this.

 

[TheTony]

You probably won't see providers offer 1080p output until they offer programming at that resolution, and I wouldn't expect that anytime soon. As has already been suggested, if you've got a 1080p display, let the set do the upscaling.

Back to the topic - any new info on native resolution passthrough in the pipleline?

 

[rglore]

If you could set the box to 1080p, then it would do the de-interlacing for 1080i and upscale the 720p and the TV would not have to reset resolutions between channel changes. What it does now is add interlacing to the 720p ruining it and the TV can't fix that.

 

[John Kotches]

Why would they bother doing that since there is still zero broadcast content in 1080p? Remember E* is in the business of selling TV programing. If you want non 1080p content scaled to 1080p to match a display let the display or a an AV receiver do the scaling. Until there are some channels that are sending out a 1080p signal there is no point in E* making a receiver that does this.

There's plenty of 1080p content out there. You say "that cannot be, since the signal is 1080i".

You forget that all prime time shows are shot on film or digital film equivalent at a resolution of 1080p. This is then telecined into 1080i.

A 1080p display with a good scaler / deinterlacer integrated or outboard can lock onto the cadence and grab back the original progressive frames and display them without loss. THe best scaler/deinterlacers can lock onto the cadence and display back the original 24p rate.

You need to stop thinking within the constraints of broadcast and start thinking in terms of original form.

Cheers,

 

[John Kotches]

If you could set the box to 1080p, then it would do the de-interlacing for 1080i and upscale the 720p and the TV would not have to reset resolutions between channel changes. What it does now is add interlacing to the 720p ruining it and the TV can't fix that.

Having a high-end 1080p front projector I notice that there is a large amount of softening when you send 720p content out as 1080i from the 622 or 211. When you output as 720p you get a much sharper image without dropping lines or frames of information.

Cheers,

 

[lakebum431]

There's plenty of 1080p content out there. You say "that cannot be, since the signal is 1080i".

You forget that all prime time shows are shot on film or digital film equivalent at a resolution of 1080p. This is then telecined into 1080i.

A 1080p display with a good scaler / deinterlacer integrated or outboard can lock onto the cadence and grab back the original progressive frames and display them without loss. THe best scaler/deinterlacers can lock onto the cadence and display back the original 24p rate.

You need to stop thinking within the constraints of broadcast and start thinking in terms of original form.

Cheers,

John -
I understand what you are saying and agree, however, until channel providors start sending the signal in 1080p there would be no reason for E* to introduce a box that supports this. Right? Or am I missing something?

 

[Bradtothebone]

........I was hoping that at CES they would unveil an 822 (I have the 722) that supported 1080p output. However, I guess that's not high enough on their list of priorities, so oh well. That said, with the majority of people having LCD's, 1080i is actually close to a useless output mode. They should just replace it with 1080p......

1080i is still a very viable (and needed) output mode - especially for those like myself, who still have older CRT-RP displays that won't accept 720p at all. I'm all for native passthrough for those that need it, but let's not forget us early adoptors, who "suffered" through the infancy of HD.

Brad

 

[Jim S.]

Native resolution passthrough currently has nothing to do with 1080p. I don't know why that was dragged into this thread.

 

[Bradtothebone]

Native resolution passthrough currently has nothing to do with 1080p. I don't know why that was dragged into this thread.

Agreed.

 

[rglore]

Native resolution passthrough currently has nothing to do with 1080p. I don't know why that was dragged into this thread.

It was added because of the idea that adding a 1080p output mode would eliminate the need for native mode passthru for people with 1080p displays.

 

[John Kotches]

John -
I understand what you are saying and agree, however, until channel providors start sending the signal in 1080p there would be no reason for E* to introduce a box that supports this. Right? Or am I missing something?

It's not particularly relevant to my point that there's content there waiting for good deinterlacing

 

[John Kotches]

It was added because of the idea that adding a 1080p output mode would eliminate the need for native mode passthru for people with 1080p displays.

This depends on the content.

If the 1080p is a simple weave then that's going to suck and I'd rather let something else handle the deinterlacing.

It'll be OK for film based content, but terrible for video based content.

Best is to reverse the telecine and output at 24p (or even multiples) for film based sources plus motion adaptive and compensated processing for video based interlaced sources. Dish is unlikely to spend the $$$ for that kind of processing.

 

[MikeD-C05]

I would love it if DISH would allow us to set a preference for sd at 480p and hd at 1080i or 720p. Like the Time warner cable boxes do. This would be the easiest way for me to do it without native resolution. Surely they can do this without to much change to the software?

 

[Flipperdoodle]

I too would like to see native resolution passthrough -- my old Comcast HD receiver did it. It ticks me off that my Toshiba [SIZE=-1]37HL67 reports[/SIZE] 1080i and 4x3 when it's neither that I am seeing.

 

[rglore]

I'm sticking with my request for 1080p output. With native passthrough, my TVs would take several seconds to re-sync every time I changed to a channel with a different resolution, very annoying. My Apple TV just got a firmware update that enabled 1080p output so maybe the 622s could do it too.

 

[KAB]

I'm sticking with my request for 1080p output. With native passthrough, my TVs would take several seconds to re-sync every time I changed to a channel with a different resolution, very annoying. My Apple TV just got a firmware update that enabled 1080p output so maybe the 622s could do it too.

Well, since nothing is and probably never will be broadcast in 1080p, it wouldn't serve any purpose, would it?

 

[Smith P.]

That mean if DVR have de-interlacing engine and how good it is to compare what in your HD TV.
Not the broadcast in 1080p60.