NCAA Football 2008-09 Season

[scottc98]

We could be headed to a split National Championship.

The AP currently had Texas over Oklahoma.

If Oklahoma narely beats the SEC champion in the MNC and Texas dominates Ohio St. in the Fiesta Bowl, the AP could easily vote Texas #1, while Oklahoma gets the BCS #1 slot.

Texas' best chance at being crowned national champion could be in hands of AP poll voters -- Newsday.com

A split title just doesn't have that much pull now that the AP pulled out of the BCS rankings. I think that it was more rebellious and respected when it still based its champion on its final polll, despite the BCS.

When they decided to pull out of the BCS, they loss the credibility to claim a champion at seasons end IMO.

 

[SideshowBob]

Isnt the actual field closer to Oklahoma than it was for Texas?

By like a few miles, yes. But realistically Dallas is equidistant from both schools and they split the ticket sales down the middle. And Dallas is home to tons of Oklahoma alumni (not as many as UT but still a lot). It's about as neutral a site as you could get.

 

[SideshowBob]

NOPE, can't have two teams from the same conference ...
See Ohio State and Michigan a few years back.

Wrong. Two teams from the same conference can matchup iof they both finish #1 and #2 in the BCS rankings. It's unlikely to happen, as the human voters (who make up 2/3 of the BCS rankings) are unlikely to vote in such a way as to allow for it, but it can happen -- nothing in the rules prevents it.

tOSU and UM didn't end up facing off because they didn't end up #1/2 in the final BCS standings. If Michigan had ended up #2, they would have gone to have a rematch versus the Buckeyes.

 

[Derwin0]

When they decided to pull out of the BCS, they loss the credibility to claim a champion at seasons end IMO.

Technically they were never a part of the BCS. They ordered the BCS to stop using their poll because of copyright infringements, and the mess with #1 USC not being allowed to play in the MNC.

 

[SideshowBob]

A split title just doesn't have that much pull now that the AP pulled out of the BCS rankings. I think that it was more rebellious and respected when it still based its champion on its final polll, despite the BCS.

When they decided to pull out of the BCS, they loss the credibility to claim a champion at seasons end IMO.

The AP never agreed to be part of the BCS -- the poll was used by the BCS and allowed by the AP, but the AP never formally agreed to it. After the controversy involving the split USC/LSU championship, the AP then explicitly prohibited the use of their poll in the BCS standings.

If anything IMHO, the AP not being a part of the BCS standings makes a split championship more valid. The AP makes it clear that they are not involved in any way in the BCS rankings. They are not bound by the BCS "championship" results and are free to rate teams however they want. And, quite frankly, I think that's a good thing since it allows for the possibility of controversial choice to be rectified (I'd rather see two deseving teams get slit championships than have a worthy side go unrecognzied).

 

[scottc98]

Technically they were never a part of the BCS. They ordered the BCS to stop using their poll because of copyright infringements, and the mess with #1 USC not being allowed to play in the MNC.

Ok....but the AP basically told the BCS that they wanted no part of the process

The whole 2003 issue was a big deal because both AP AND coaches polls had USC #1. The AP didn't think that their hands should be forced, like the coaches, after the bowls.

Whether they wanted to or not, the AP poll was a part of the process and then AP poll told the BCS to stop.

Thats like saying that "technically" tuberville resigned, even though he recieved a full contract payout that he would have gotten if he was fired

 

[SideshowBob]

semantics, I know what he's saying thou ....
So IF Oklahoma wins, Ohio State and Texas looks like a fit, wonder who the Bucks get if Oklahoma loses ?

The obvious answer is that the Buckeyes will play Missouri, since they'd get the automatic Big 12 bid to the BCS.

At this point, the BCS setup is almost certain to be this:

Championship: SEC champ versus Oklahoma (if they win) or Texas (if Oklahoma loses)
Rose: USC versus PSU
Fiesta: tOSU versus Texas (if Oklahoma wins) or Missouri (if they win)
Sugar: Alabama/Florida loser versus Utah
Orange: ACC champ versus Cincinnati

 

[SideshowBob]

Ok....but the AP basically told the BCS that they wanted no part of the process

The whole 2003 issue was a big deal because both AP AND coaches polls had USC #1. The AP didn't think that their hands should be forced, like the coaches, after the bowls.

Whether they wanted to or not, the AP poll was a part of the process and then AP poll told the BCS to stop.

That's exactly right -- they said they didn't want to be part of the "process" of the BCS and obligated to follow how it worked out. Instead, they wanted to determine their own champion, in the same manner that they have done for decades.

I don't see any particular reason to criticize the AP for that. There's nothing intrinsic that makes the BCS system perfect or ideal that should obligate the polls to either want to be a part of it or to follow its results.

If anything, I think it gives the AP more credibility by emphasizing that they are an alternative evaluator for college football, independent of the BCS.

 

[mccoyrj]

Yes I agree ....

But, when an SEC team wins the MNC the entire conference acts as if THEY won the Championship, instead of the team that played in it.

Jimbo

I don't understand the point you're trying to make everytime you say this. If team USA wins in the Olympics, don't the rest of us have a right to be proud of them since we live in the USA? Why is that any different when you reduce it to a regional conference? The SEC is comprised of teams from the South, so people who live and support teams in that area are proud when one of their own win. Why does that bother you so much?

That's a good thing. They know a win for one is a win for all in recognition for the conference.

Exactly! :up I would assume most fans of the Big11 feel the same way.

 

[scottc98]

I don't think that when the AP was apart of the BCS rankings that their voters weren't "independent" minded.

Was there a time from '98 to '04 when the AP voters "manipulated" their voting to move a team in the title game?

The only time I can recall is with the coaches poll in 2004 over Texas and Cal and maybe 01 with Colorado and Neb.

But not the AP......

The AP was alway the "Honest Broker" within the BCS IMO. Their poll factored into the current championship system but yet stayed independent in their polling from start to finish.

The fact that the AP does not factor into whom goes to the title game is what dimishes a possible title from the AP.

I see your point but thats just my opinion

 

[Ronnie-]

I don't understand the point you're trying to make everytime you say this. If team USA wins in the Olympics, don't the rest of us have a right to be proud of them since we live in the USA? Why is that any different when you reduce it to a regional conference? The SEC is comprised of teams from the South, so people who live and support teams in that area are proud when one of their own win. Why does that bother you so much?Exactly! :up

The other conferences dont seem to have the sense of unity that the SEC does, for whatever reason. I dont think they can ever really understand it, therefore they question it. I personally pull for the SEC in every out of conference game in any sport. As you said, a win for the SEC raises the prestige for the entire conference, and by extension helps the member schools.

 

[scottc98]

Why don't fans of the Big11 feel the same way?

Can't speak for all B10 fans, but I'd root for a B10 team in the title game.......unless it was Michigan!!

Conf pride or not, I draw a line there

Are you telling me that there aren't some BAMA fans out there that aren't still smiling about Auburn in 03

The other point to make is that just because the NC came from your conference, shouldn't mean your the top conf. Nor should losing in the NC game dimishes the accomplishments (or future ones) of its members.

Do you think the BE was the best in '01? What about the ACC in '99?

If you want to raise your conf rep across the board, then base it on all conf teams records in bowls and OOC games.

That is the reason the SEC is always considered the top (or top 2) conf every year. Its not because a team in their conf won the title, but the statement of work of all of the teams in the SEC.

You can be proud as a conference member to see a fellow one win the title, but you can't hang your hat on another team's accomplishment


EDIT: BTW....I'd be happy to see Michigan win in a bowl game....just not the title game
EDIT: "Can't"

 

[mccoyrj]

Can't speak for all B10 fans, but I'd root for a B10 team in the title game.......unless it was Michigan!!

Conf pride or not, I draw a line there

Are you telling me that there aren't some BAMA fans out there that are still smiling about Auburn in 03

The other point to make is that just because the NC came from your conference, shouldn't mean your the top conf. Nor should losing in the NC game dimishes the accomplishments (or future ones) of its members.

Do you think the BE was the best in '01? What about the ACC in '99?

You can be proud as a conference member to see a fellow one win the title, but you can hang your hat on another teams accomplishment

I assume you meant can't hang your hat? Sometimes that's all a fan of a particular team can do.

I think most of us on here understand. When your team gets humiliated by teams from another conference repeatedly, you get rankled when anyone says anything supporting that conference.

 

[scottc98]

Correction made

I see where you are going.....and tOSu will have to take the heat for performances on the big stage.

Shouldn't mean the entire B10 should take the heat for it.....just tOSU. The SEC and B10 match up at least 2 times in the bowl season. IF a B10 team wins that game, they did their part...shouldn't be punished for the work of others.

 

[HD MM]

ESPN and the Seattle Times are both reporting that USC's Steve Sarkisian will fill the head coaching position with the Washington Huskies and is all but a done deal.

Huskies | Huskies go with youth, pick USC's Sarkisian | Seattle Times Newspaper

 

[mccoyrj]

Correction made

I see where you are going.....and tOSu will have to take the heat for performances on the big stage.

Shouldn't mean the entire B10 should take the heat for it.....just tOSU.

The reason the Big10 took heat from tOSU's performance is because the Buckeyes easily won that conference. That wasn't and usually isn't the case in the SEC.

The SEC and B10 match up at least 2 times in the bowl season. IF a B10 team wins that game, they did their part...shouldn't be punished for the work of others.

Agreed. Michigan beat a good Florida team last year and should've gotten more recognition for that accomplishment, but it was somewhat ignored because of the poor play of other Big10 teams.

None of this however has anything to do with why an SEC fan should be held at fault for pulling for an SEC team in OOC or bowl games. I completely understand it when a Big10 fan pulls for a Big10 team when playing out of their conference, which you know happens despite what anyone on here says. Just go back in this thread and look at how many times a Big10 fan comes to the defense of another Big10 fan when arguing with an SEC fan, or any other conference for that matter. It's only natural.

You have to have a nagging bug up your ass about a certain conference to fault it's fans for pulling for it.

 

[scottc98]

None of this however has anything to do with why an SEC fan should be held at fault for pulling for an SEC team in OOC or bowl games. I completely understand it when a Big10 fan pulls for a Big10 team when playing out of their conference, which you know happens despite what anyone on here says.

Totally agree.

Conferences rooting for their members in OOC or bowls games are totally common. I pull for the B10 all the time.

I just don't wany to see Michigan win the NC, even if their win in someway helps the image of the B10. Thats just me

Are there any other SEC fans or others whom feel the same about their rival?

That's a good thing. They know a win for one is a win for all in recognition for the conference.

Only point I was trying to make was that no conference should (or can IMO) claim a superiority over other conferences simply because a team from their conference won the NC. It got to be measured by more than that. If you look back at the BE or ACC when FSU and Miami were winning titles, they were always the top dog and no one else below them.

Same argument about USC and the Pac-10. Even when USC has won title(s) this decade, it didn't really give a lot of kudos to the conference or make it look tougher. It just meant that USC was just really good.

 

[Ramy]

Totally agree.

Conferences rooting for their members in OOC or bowls games are totally common. I pull for the B10 all the time.

I just don't wany to see Michigan win the NC, even if their win in someway helps the image of the B10. Thats just me

Are there any other SEC fans or others whom feel the same about their rival?



Only point I was trying to make was that no conference should (or can IMO) claim a superiority over other conferences simply because a team from their conference won the NC. It got to be measured by more than that. If you look back at the BE or ACC when FSU and Miami were winning titles, they were always the top dog and no one else below them.

Same argument about USC and the Pac-10. Even when USC has won title(s) this decade, it didn't really give a lot of kudos to the conference or make it look tougher. It just meant that USC was just really good.

Yeah I understand what you meant now.

 

[HD MM]

Boise St. Coach, Chris Peterson to Miss. St?

BREAKING NEWS: Sources Confirm, Chris Petersen to Mississippi St


You can take this to the bank. Boise State’s Chris Petersen, will be the new head coach at Mississippi State University. The official announcement could come as soon as the completion of the SEC Title game. More later, when information becomes available.

BREAKING NEWS: Sources Confirm, Chris Petersen to Mississippi St « Sparty & Friends

 

[SabresRule]

ESPN and the Seattle Times are both reporting that USC's Steve Sarkisian will fill the head coaching position with the Washington Huskies and is all but a done deal.

Huskies | Huskies go with youth, pick USC's Sarkisian | Seattle Times Newspaper

Thank goodness! Now I dom't have to worry about Mike Leach!