Net Neutrality Explained

Juan

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So what
Another thing a small/local ISP wouldn't do is deliberately let their peering points saturate in an attempt to extort Netflix into handing them money. That would never work since their customers are too few for Netflix to notice, and those customers would form a posse and take it out of their hide.
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ncted

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In other words...Netflix is paying for cache servers

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To steal a phrase, "so what?" As in, the point has already been made that Netflix is a good netizen while large ISPs were (are?) extorting money from them and preventing them from installing CDN servers in their networks to ruin the customer experience. Are you trying to make a new point? I appreciate brevity, but your posts can be especially terse.
 
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TheKrell

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So, little providers have no issue doing their jobs and providing the bandwidth at their peering point that their customers already pay for. Big providers won't do the same because they want to grab more money by any means necessary.

Am I the only one around here who thinks Netflix should not have to provide caching servers on ISP's premises?
 

Juan

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Its a private netflix network ( allowed for public use) using other private networks... it violates net neutrality for starters ...gives netflix an unfair advantage
To steal a phrase, "so what?" As in, the point has already been made that Netflix is a good netizen while large ISPs were (are?) extorting money from them and preventing them from installing CDN servers in their networks to ruin the customer experience. Are you trying to make a new point? I appreciate brevity, but your posts can be especially terse.
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Juan

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Netflix should pay installation costs
So, little providers have no issue doing their jobs and providing the bandwidth at their peering point that their customers already pay for. Big providers won't do the same because they want to grab more money by any means necessary.

Am I the only one around here who thinks Netflix should not have to provide caching servers on ISP's premises?
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ncted

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Its a private netflix network ( allowed for public use) using other private networks... it violates net neutrality for starters ...gives netflix an unfair advantage

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CDNs do not violate NN as they don't actually result in the prioritization of one kind of traffic over another. Moving the data closer to the client is not a violation of NN. This is a false talking point invented by lobbyists who don't understand how IP networking works. Anyone who utilizes a CDN is improving the performance of their application for certain, but, at the same time, making life better for everyone else using the Internet by reducing backbone utilization. It also improves average packet latency on the local ISP network, something every ISP should want as it reduces memory utilization on their routers.

Also, peering with Netflix's network, which uses public AS number AS2906 is not a private network. That is the public Internet:

Netflix | Peering With Open Connect

Fairness can be difficult to ascertain, but I can see why some ISPs who also have video operations (Comcast, Charter, AT&T, Verizon, etc.) might view it that way since they are vertically integrated megacorps and have a hard time differentiating their telecommunications business from their content and [declining] video delivery businesses. Their viewpoint is Netflix is using all their bandwidth and isn't paying them for it, but the reality is the ISP customers are the one paying for and using the bandwidth. Netflix is not initiating the communications -- the ISP customer is. That puts the onus on the ISP to deliver the traffic, as requested, to their customers in a reliable, performant fashion, not matter who the traffic is coming from.

Netflix offering the OpenConnect CDN servers for free (minus installation) comes out looking like the good guy because it benefits everyone involved. Yes, Netflix competitors might not have the same advantage, but they easily could offer the same thing, especially as large parts of the OpenConnect project are open source.

I will say how interesting it is that so many cable companies who didn't want to be a "dumb pipe" are now getting most of their revenue from doing just that, and they seem pretty happy about it.
 

harshness

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Define ISP...many companies cough comcast, att and others cough...wear many hats but a small local ISP probably wouldn't
An ISP is any organization that Joe Sixpack can subscribe to broadband service from. It could be a large telco, a cable company, a reseller of either or anyone in between.

What other definition of ISP is there?
 

ncted

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I don't debate people who think Verizon fios and Verizon telecom are different departments

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You know, I've never successfully purchased an Internet connection or leased line from Verizon ever. We almost got a T1 back in 1999 from them as they were the LEC in Durham, but then they wouldn't ever give us a contract to sign, so we eventually had to go with someone else (can't remember who). That was a close as I've gotten. That was the same Verizon that advertised fios was coming to Durham for over a year and then sold our market to Frontier. Now AT&T and Google have 99% of the residential fiber customers here, one of the fastest growing places in the US. What were they thinking?
 
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TheKrell

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That was the same Verizon that advertised fios was coming to Durham for over a year and then sold our market to Frontier.
I can emphathise with that one. I signed up with my address and email to tell me when they would be coming to my neighborhood. Then they sent me gigantic postcards at least every month saying FIOS IS HERE for about 2 years before it was actually here. And when it was finally available, they never emailed me. I've also gone around and around with the residential folks asking whether they block ports and whether I could get the ports unblocked and they were of course clueless and want me to go with a commercial account with some other group who just don't seem to care either. I'm too small and cost-sensitive for the corporate folks. So here I remain on Cox.
 

Juan

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You know, I've never successfully purchased an Internet connection or leased line from Verizon ever. We almost got a T1 back in 1999 from them as they were the LEC in Durham, but then they wouldn't ever give us a contract to sign, so we eventually had to go with someone else (can't remember who). That was a close as I've gotten. That was the same Verizon that advertised fios was coming to Durham for over a year and then sold our market to Frontier. Now AT&T and Google have 99% of the residential fiber customers here, one of the fastest growing places in the US. What were they thinking?
Verizon doesn't serve Nort Carolina unless it was a former GTE area( quite possible) but that was sold to frontier

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ncted

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Verizon doesn't serve Nort Carolina unless it was a former GTE area( quite possible) but that was sold to frontier

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Verizon is made up of the former GTE and Bell Atlantic companies. Hence, GTE is Verizon. Then Verizon sold some former GTE markets to Frontier. I guess technically it was GTE who wouldn't get off their butts to sell me a T1 in 1999, but it is the same difference as they are one and the same.
 

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