New Install Questions

dishcomm

dishcomm

SatelliteGuys Master
Nov 29, 2005
10,388
554
suburbia
I've got some more bad news.. if two holes will compromise the stability of your house foundation, I think you may need to reconsider satellite TV altogether and focus some of the money spent for monthly televesion on your house instead. :D
Yeah..ditto....I run into people like this on occasion..They want the system but don't want any work done to their home..Then they complain to Dish that we didn't want to do the job..Can't have it both ways..
The customer either wants the thing or they don't.... have to make a choice....
 
dishcomm

dishcomm

SatelliteGuys Master
Nov 29, 2005
10,388
554
suburbia
The foundation is a couple of feet of concrete. I have been having problems with flooding and want to reduce the chance of adding to my troubles. Can't I just split the lines like with cable?
Some regrading would help ...No, you cannot just split the lines to feed the toehr two receivers..Tell ya what...either go with two receivers and eliminate two tv's, two dual tuners for 4 tv's(622HD DVR and 322 SD nonDVR)...these receivers will need wiring as well but it would be all internal...or sytick with cable...
Also, the penetrations for the additional wires would be above grade so there is little chance of water getting in thru those holes....Not trying to be a wise guy here but perhaps with all the issues with ytour home you should better prioritize your spending and forget pay tv and take the cash you saved and fix up your house..No esense having a $100+ satellite bill when your home needs to be protected from "flooding problems".. Sorry..no disrespect intended
 
dishcomm

dishcomm

SatelliteGuys Master
Nov 29, 2005
10,388
554
suburbia
If you already have lines into the room you can use the same cables as long as it's rg-6 and not 59 wire...If you do not have cable to those rooms you will have to get them installed by wall fishing, drilling through the floor, drilling through the wall, or drilling through the ceiling. With all those methods it should be secured from weather by either a feedthrough bushing, or a wall plate. there is another way to do it with a remote system that will transmit signal from the receiver to the tv without cables...but that would be way too complicated, expensive, and unreliable. Just figure out how and where you would prefer for the wires to come in to the room and ask if it is possible
Be careful..some of those examples are what are termed as "custom wiring"..That is chargeable to the customer as above standard....
 
dishcomm

dishcomm

SatelliteGuys Master
Nov 29, 2005
10,388
554
suburbia
The home is prewired for cable with two coax outlets at every room. I just only have two feeds, thats the problem.
two feeds to a central distribution box or panel?...From there the cables break out two to a room?...Nice.....you'll need one line from the dish for each orbital slot..110/119 and 61.5..total of three to a Dish Pro34 switch..Is you home built ona basement?..Where is the distribution point/panel located?..Interior or exterior wall?
 
dishcomm

dishcomm

SatelliteGuys Master
Nov 29, 2005
10,388
554
suburbia
Yes all the cables run to one central location where they are split. Lets say I want to use the dp twin, dp dual and 34 switch. Exactly want would be connected to what. The installer guy did not think of this so I probably will have to explain it to him.
The installer was either inexperienced or an idiot.
 
dishcomm

dishcomm

SatelliteGuys Master
Nov 29, 2005
10,388
554
suburbia
Problem solved everyone. I just had a quick conversation with a great sales rep at dish. He told me about a little something called flat coax, wonderful stuff. Thankyou everyone that tried to help.
Flat cables are NOT reliable..They do fail alot...And you may have to buy them yourself as many techs do not carry them opn their trucks....There are very cheap ones ..do not buy those..the flatties you need are about 15- 20 dollars each....Be careful..
 
dishcomm

dishcomm

SatelliteGuys Master
Nov 29, 2005
10,388
554
suburbia
Flat cable is crap. I really don't see why you can't just run it the way the guy originally suggested. You should know that the average installer probably has 3-5 jobs(or more) a day, and really does not have time to plan out a custom install for you. He also pretty much has to use what the work order calls for, or modify it, which is a pain and if he's a contractor he runs the risk of not getting paid for the job at all(yep, It's been happening in my office quite frequently lately).

Back to flat cable; it's my understanding that Dish does not approve the use of it. The only time I use it is in apartment buildings where most of the installs are temporary at best. Yet you said a Dish Rep suggested it. huh, more contradiction on what we are and are not supposed to do. I guess the bottom line is the bottom line.
Didn't you know that each customer is given the impression by Dish or the Sales Partner that their job is the ONLY one the tech has that day...And the customer has Dish's blessing to treat the tech like hired day labor?
The bottom line is get the customer activated no matter what..Screw quality screw the specifications..
I have to ask , what has been happening in your office regarding pay for jobs?...
 
Roadwarrior

Roadwarrior

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jun 18, 2006
372
0
Pacific NW
Alright, it's like this. I've been doing this just over 2 years, and only worked for one company. Up until recently we did whatever it took to get the job in, even if that meant using eq that the work order did not call for. I'm sure you know that the workorder usually does not properly reflect what is really going on, or what is needed at the customers home. So, if I'm asked to add a wing dish for 61.5 to an existing 4 reciever system, how am I supposed to do that? A 34 switch and a dual was my first assumption, but that wasnt what the work order called for. But I happened to have an extra switch and dual on the truck, so that's what i did. 4 months later I was charged 73$ for using equipment that was not specified on the work order. I should have modified it, fine, I was pissed, but I can't argue with it. So, I start modifying work orders when they're screwey, which reschedules them. Even tho I've closed out the job, it gets rescheduled and ends up in some other companes queque, and somehow I don't get paid for the job. This has happened to me on about 4 jobs, most of them arent too big, but there are guys in my office who have lost 4 rooms becuase of this crap.

I'm of the opinion that the workorder should be 100% correct from the get go, and if it's not, it's should be on Dish, not me.

But i'm still new to the game, so what do i know.
 
dishcomm

dishcomm

SatelliteGuys Master
Nov 29, 2005
10,388
554
suburbia
Alright, it's like this. I've been doing this just over 2 years, and only worked for one company. Up until recently we did whatever it took to get the job in, even if that meant using eq that the work order did not call for. I'm sure you know that the workorder usually does not properly reflect what is really going on, or what is needed at the customers home. So, if I'm asked to add a wing dish for 61.5 to an existing 4 reciever system, how am I supposed to do that? A 34 switch and a dual was my first assumption, but that wasnt what the work order called for. But I happened to have an extra switch and dual on the truck, so that's what i did. 4 months later I was charged 73$ for using equipment that was not specified on the work order. I should have modified it, fine, I was pissed, but I can't argue with it. So, I start modifying work orders when they're screwey, which reschedules them. Even tho I've closed out the job, it gets rescheduled and ends up in some other companes queque, and somehow I don't get paid for the job. This has happened to me on about 4 jobs, most of them arent too big, but there are guys in my office who have lost 4 rooms becuase of this crap.

I'm of the opinion that the workorder should be 100% correct from the get go, and if it's not, it's should be on Dish, not me.

But i'm still new to the game, so what do i know.
OK....here's the deal
Yes you should always get the w/o modified..When on the phone with the CSR always make sure the EQ is on the w/o..Ask the CSR to read off the new EQ. ALWAYS ALWAYS ask if the date/ time frame changed..most times the job stays where it is...Even if the job is rescheduled due to a modification IT WILL NOT BE ASSIGNED TO ANOTHER SUB...PERIOD....It is your firm's job....Now your company should have a procedure in place where the tech calls in to dispatch to confirm w/o changes..This is our company policy...NEVER install EQ if it is not on the w/o....If the w/o is incorrect when you get to the job site and you do not have the desired EQ install the w/o as is to get the completion...Advise the cust that Dish will issue another w/o to install the right EQ..If the customer balks and disallows the work, it's not your fault...Your employer should recognize this..However if your employer is fining you for non completes because the w/o is wrong they are a**holes and you should quit immediately..Each time you think you are being ripped off by your employer, document it..get a statement from the office as to why you were charged, Document it..Then talk to a labor attorney...
Anyway, don't put yourself into a position where you are accepting ANY liability..Go by the book...Get the proper documentation before proceeding...Yes I realize that you may be overloaded with work, a common refrain on here, but isi it worth it to do extra work, not get paid and then have your legitimate wages taken from you...Think about it..
Again I cannot emphasize the importance of documentation and communication....Especially on those w/o changes....Remember to call your dispatch to confirm any changes before working...Hopefully your company has a system in place where the dispatch people can check E-Connect and see if the CSR entered the w/o mods....
 
Roadwarrior

Roadwarrior

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jun 18, 2006
372
0
Pacific NW
OK....here's the deal
Yes you should always get the w/o modified..When on the phone with the CSR always make sure the EQ is on the w/o..Ask the CSR to read off the new EQ. ALWAYS ALWAYS ask if the date/ time frame changed..most times the job stays where it is...Even if the job is rescheduled due to a modification IT WILL NOT BE ASSIGNED TO ANOTHER SUB...PERIOD....It is your firm's job....Now your company should have a procedure in place where the tech calls in to dispatch to confirm w/o changes..This is our company policy...NEVER install EQ if it is not on the w/o....If the w/o is incorrect when you get to the job site and you do not have the desired EQ install the w/o as is to get the completion...Advise the cust that Dish will issue another w/o to install the right EQ..If the customer balks and disallows the work, it's not your fault...Your employer should recognize this..However if your employer is fining you for non completes because the w/o is wrong they are a**holes and you should quit immediately..Each time you think you are being ripped off by your employer, document it..get a statement from the office as to why you were charged, Document it..Then talk to a labor attorney...
Anyway, don't put yourself into a position where you are accepting ANY liability..Go by the book...Get the proper documentation before proceeding...Yes I realize that you may be overloaded with work, a common refrain on here, but isi it worth it to do extra work, not get paid and then have your legitimate wages taken from you...Think about it..
Again I cannot emphasize the importance of documentation and communication....Especially on those w/o changes....Remember to call your dispatch to confirm any changes before working...Hopefully your company has a system in place where the dispatch people can check E-Connect and see if the CSR entered the w/o mods....


noted. Thank's for the input. It's kind of sad that I have to keep such a close eye on my money. I wish I could just do my job and trust my company to pay me for it. Silly newb.
 
dishcomm

dishcomm

SatelliteGuys Master
Nov 29, 2005
10,388
554
suburbia
noted. Thank's for the input. It's kind of sad that I have to keep such a close eye on my money. I wish I could just do my job and trust my company to pay me for it. Silly newb.
Yer not a silly newb..You just didn't get he info you needed....I find it amazing how these install companies will let their techs install EQ that isn't on the w/o and then laughingly take wages away for doing exactly what the company wants done..That is , get the job done..
Our firm never lets such skullduggery occur..They want see us techs make a much $ as possible. Thye don't want us getting burned out..There's no hidden chargebacks, no screwing around, no gross overcharges for cable, fittings ,etc..None of that nonsense....It is amazing how many subs royally screw their techs...And get away with it..
 
S

spydrplus

Well-Known SatelliteGuys Member
Feb 15, 2007
27
0
Be careful..some of those examples are what are termed as "custom wiring"..That is chargeable to the customer as above standard....

dish doesn't allow us to charge for "custom wiring" any more, ie: wall fishing. Only things we can charge for now is wiring over 200 feet, trenching over 50 ft, and mirroring. There may be some others but I haven't run into them yet
 
dishcomm

dishcomm

SatelliteGuys Master
Nov 29, 2005
10,388
554
suburbia
dish doesn't allow us to charge for "custom wiring" any more, ie: wall fishing. Only things we can charge for now is wiring over 200 feet, trenching over 50 ft, and mirroring. There may be some others but I haven't run into them yet
Actuall the DISH manual gives deatiled info in what is "standard"..
Custome wirirng becomes necessary when a job will involve an inordicate amount of time. materials or the use of more than one person to get the job done properly.
We make that determination on site..These are rare circumstances but it does happen. For example last year we had a job in an exclusive neighborhood where for some inexplicable reason the electrician wired a 5,000 SF home with RG 59..
The customer wanted 8 receivers. Four of which he was buying..The customer did not want to pay(so what else is new) so we walked away from the job..We refered it back to DNSC.
i have run inot jobs where the customer wanted new wirting even though the home was new and prewired already..This has happened just once..The job would have taken all day, perahps a bit more than that..I told the cust he would have to pay regardless because his home would not allow standard wiring techniques to be used..BTW this was a two story slab built home all brick..The customer wanted NO exposed wiring on the outside of the home.
These are just some examples of where custom wiring is called for and is chargeable..Dish may disallow wall fish, pole mount and other charges. But we have the right to not lose money on a job.
On a standard install we can charge for phone lines, mirrors, addtional outlets, excessive /difficult burials....I will charge a customer for an entire burial if the soil is very hard to dig..They will pay or the cable stays on the surface and the customer signs off on that..The bottom line is I do this work to make money. A profit. Dish has their rules and I libve by them..But there are lines that do not get crossed.If the cutomer balks at paying , I simply inform my dispatch and we they will let dish know about the situation. Most times the GM at the DNSC office is very understanding about these rare cases and will ask us to refer the job back to Dish so their hourly paid techs can handle the job..
 
ZandarKoad

ZandarKoad

Amish Satellite Technician
Pub Member / Supporter
Lifetime Supporter
Apr 13, 2005
2,443
92
Nashville, TN
noted. Thank's for the input. It's kind of sad that I have to keep such a close eye on my money. I wish I could just do my job and trust my company to pay me for it. Silly newb.

Another approach to this problem is to convince the customer that it is in their best interest to let you complete the work order AS IS. It goes something like this:

"Oh, you were expecting four TVs? The work order only calls for two, and thats all the equipment that I have. I tell you what, I'll get you hooked up today with two TVs so that you at least have something. Then call dish within 3 days AFTER I'm done (not before, otherwise they'll cancel this job) and tell them that they screwed up, and you were supposed to get four TVs. They'll send someone out for free to hook up the other two."

It works for satellites too. Tell them that you can hook up everything, but to add 61.5 (for example) later. The important thing is that you CLOSE THAT FRIGGIN WORK ORDER, then get the CUSTOMER to call in and complain that they screwed up the work order. In these cases your work order is your best ally. If you can, let the customer keep a copy of it so they can see you're totally legit.

That way DISH has to pay for it's mistake and NO ONE ELSE.
 

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