New software downloading on my 811 now!

[WeeJavaDude]

I agree. I worked for a S/W group that supported ~1000 systems around the world and we would have major releases which would include new features and we would have patches that would fix problems. Major releases and patches were announced to the customers and fully documented. Unofficially we would also push fixes that weren't announced or documented. Pushing fixes was not according to established procedures and usually knowledge of a S/W fix pushed to the field was kept quiet and only two or three people would know about it because of the procedure breach. Is this unethical? Maybe and maybe not. We were able to save multimillion dollar production facillities from crashing by pushing a fix where if we followed strict release procedures the fix would take days or weeks to get into the field causing massive production losses.

You are talking two different models here. One is a consumer based model and the other is a production facility based model. Both have their levels of support and what constitutes fair and just support. If I was in a production facility and found out I was not in control of my software updates to my production equipment I would not be happy. Especially if it was not documented. What would happen if your push caused a problem and loss of production. I would say your company in this case is taking a huge liability risk by not fully disclosing.

As to the comment about a sneak 265, I doubt it. Not bumping a software rev and pushing it to the field would create a support nightmare. Would give the engineers no way of knowing what the code base is and something I doubt would happen. I doubt we have a consipiracy here.

However, I am suprised at the mixed reaction to the software realease in terms of the dark video. That is rather complexing and something I don't understand myself. For me I got marginall improvement on my svideo and my DVI seem to improve.. HD even looks better. I will give it a week before I make my opinion, but out of the shoot it does seem like an improvement. How much? For me not night and day.

 

[WeeJavaDude]

How can anyone defend DISH when they have sat on this problem for 5 damn months?

We all have problems locking with the OTA. I live in Plainview, NY on Long Island. I'm not that far away from the towers. My buddy has a Silver Sensor antenna like me and he gets NBC digital. I never get it...just the same old 49% and dead.

I understand most of us got the 811 for 150 bucks or so. I know you get what you pay for. But, 150 isn't chump change either. We deserved a product that at least gives us a good picture.

Nice nick!

We don't all have problems locking with OTA. Some do, most don't. Based on the post I have read.

As for PQ, as you see in the post the same goes. Some people have great PQ, some have decent PQ, some think the PQ sucks. You will get this with any HD receiver thread you put up. From the reports the 266 does have some dark video fixes in it. It looks like it did not fix everyone.

From this reports obviously this issue is not as simple as one would think. If it was the fix would have corrected problems accross the board. Maybe it is a hardward issue. Maybe we should start a thread to see what Rev of box we have and if we find the PQ acceptable, great, or sucks. Maybe we can find a triend and go to Dish with findings and get the people whose box sucks replaced with a newer rev.

It is not a matter of defending Dish or throwing stone, rocks and boulders. it is a matter of trying to help get this box stable and the PQ the best it can be and help each other with issues. That is my take and what I try to atleast do here.

What happens is you get people ranting and then you have people trying to help and read the info. The people reading the threads have to wade through the ranting and it wears on them so they reply. They are then tagged as a Dish lover. The Dish lover then tags the ranter as a whiner.. Turns into a vicious cycle... And yes it can go the other way.

I personally have no problem with people occassional ranting, but when it becomes the only method of communication the person employes I sometimes fire back. If you only feed negative info into the forum, not expect to get a lot of positive back. It is human nature. <I bet you all thought I was going to say... "Why can't we all get along">

Time to step off my soapbox. I knew with 266 that this was going to occur unless Dish hit a home run. They obviously did not based on the post. Well lets see how things work out this week and lets get a thread started to document the bugs we find. This way maybe someone at Dish will swing by and pick it up.

 

[nuts4scuba]

I don't have an 811, but was wondering if the dark picture fix that some are saying they received could be because of the brand or type of tv sets they have?

 

[lonewolfe]

My real test will be today when my wife watches her soap. It is through the s video to the vcr. It is always very dark. I think it is unwatchable. If it is brightened then it will be great for me. I only use it for HD and I watch my 721 in the bedroom for anything else. Just from playing with it last night I noticed improvment. I have DVI, svideo, component, and composite running from it. All feeds brightened. I siad it earlier and someone else mentioned it, give it a few days and see what happens. If it would stop raining I will play with the antenna to see if the OTA is my problem. I don't think it is though. I know from working in the computer field that an updated driver is not the best for all hardware. I have seen it to many times. Hardware that is built the same, some software just doesn't mesh with it well. The 811 has not preformed the way I would like, but I will give them the chance to fix it with out ranting. I will however voice my opinion to dish every so often just to through a little wood on the fire.

 

[lonewolfe]

I don't have an 811, but was wondering if the dark picture fix that some are saying they received could be because of the brand or type of tv sets they have?

I don't think it should be an issue. Not with this many people complaining. If it was a few people and one specific brand of tv I would agree. I have a Sony personally.

 

[mike123abc]

The problems could be a product of many factors. There are a lot of variables:

1. A component in the 811 could have a quality control problem that cause the screen to be darker on some units than other units.

2. DishPro vs. Legacy connections. I use legacy and do not suffer frequent lockups, maybe it is DishPro that causes the problems. If I remember correctly the 721 second tuner problem was a factor with DishPro.

3. Everyone has a different type of TV, some TVs probably handle dark picture better/worse

4. Different people have different eyes as to the darkness problem.

5. OTA reception varies so much from house to house much less city to city that the exact cause of the 49% problem may never be found. In my case I was able to fix it by adjusting my antenna. I have not had the 49% bug in 2 months. I do not have LIL, so I exclusively watch OTA HD for all my network programming. I know first hand how annoying the 49% is, and I finally took matters into my own hands and managed to find a solution that works for me. It was frustrating that my 6000 did not have the problem when the 811 was, now both work great.

I think the biggest difference between the 6000 and the 811 is that the 811 was designed from the ground up to be as cheap as possible to produce to get HDTV to the masses. The 6000 used the best/most expensive parts available at the time it was designed (although at the time there was not much choice either). It looks like the 811 has been suffering from a combination of new components and possible components not living up to the specs. The good thing is that technology will continue to improve and they will be able to work these things out in newer boxes.

 

[lonewolfe]

4. Different people have different eyes as to the darkness problem.

I think this is a definate posibility. Myself I do not like very bright light. It hurts my eyes and gives me a headache. On the other hand though I am not sure it matters as you can see a diference between a dim room and a bright room. I think that some may see it as brighter or dimmer, but you should be able to tell a difference between before and after. As in the 811 darker before the update as opposed to after.

 

[GaryPen]

1. A component in the 811 could have a quality control problem that cause the screen to be darker on some units than other units.

Very very possible, especially considering comments that were made a few chats ago. (Charlie, Tech, or Retailer. I don't remember which.)

2. DishPro vs. Legacy connections. I use legacy and do not suffer frequent lockups, maybe it is DishPro that causes the problems.

This would still be the fault of the 811, not DP hw.

3. Everyone has a different type of TV, some TVs probably handle dark picture better/worse

Perhaps. But, others with Sony say they see an improvement. (I don't.)

4. Different people have different eyes as to the darkness problem.

This may be true. However, I always thought the SD outs were not as dark as many have said, while I have felt that DVI was definitely darker than many have said.

5. OTA reception varies so much from house to house much less city to city that the exact cause of the 49% problem may never be found.

Considering many with both the 811 and 6000 have OTA reception issues with only the 811 (including yourself at one time), it is a definite issue of the 811.

The good thing is that technology will continue to improve and they will be able to work these things out in newer boxes.

From a consumer perspective, they should definitely swap out these 811 for those newer boxes, if they can't get these to work correctly.

 

[lonewolfe]

From a consumer perspective, they should definitely swap out these 811 for those newer boxes, if they can't get these to work correctly.

But are we sure that the newer ones are not having the same issues. My personal opinion is they rushed the release of this box. I don't think the newer ones are going to be without flaw. I could be wrong, but I thought I read that someone with a newer box is having the same issues.

 

[bigthrust]

I've never noticed that when they did something good. In this case, though, they didn't do anything good. The OTA/EPG "acquiring signal" bug is still there. I see no improvement in PQ at all , darkness or otherwise, using DVI output.

Like I've already said, I think this update was mainly for Sirius. They may have tweaked the dark output a little. But, if they did, it only seemed to help some members, and did nothing for others. That might be consistant with the theory that the darkness is a HW issue.

BTW, did you ever notice that when people post valid complaints about their Dish prducts or services, there are members that automatically defend, as if the company were a family member (or at least good friend)?

Gary, I really think that even if the picture quality were so good that it would reach up and smack your face, you still wouldn't be happy. Why are you making such comments here. You work with this stuff for a living which would most likely make you a perfectionist in the field. Many people here are your typical "Joe's" that are doubting themselves based on your negitive attitude. These people may look up to you based on your (self stated) expertise. Why don't you help them instead of down them?

 

[GaryPen]

Hmm. Did I make any negative comments about this update? I didn't notice. Sorry if I didn't fall on my knees thanking Dish for it. It just didn't do anything to fix any of the problems of my 811. If it did, I would certainly acknowledge it. Sorry if some people may be doubting their decisions to go with Dish. (I certainly am.) But, it certainly isn't my fault. It's solely Dish's.

I still personally feel this was mostly a Sirius availaibilty update. Perfectly understandable, as Sirius is being released next week. I think that everybody's hopes were so high for the next update, they were either grossly disappointed, or, in some cases, might even be imaging improvements that aren't there.

Of course, for those seeing huge improvements to the darkness issue, Dish may have indeed tweaked something. However, it isn't fixied it for everybody, which truly suggests a HW problem.

Do you disagree with any of this justifiable theorizing? Or, is it just too negative for you?

 

[GaryPen]

But are we sure that the newer ones are not having the same issues. My personal opinion is they rushed the release of this box. I don't think the newer ones are going to be without flaw. I could be wrong, but I thought I read that someone with a newer box is having the same issues.

I didn't mean new 811's. I meant newer model, when it is released. Of course, going by their track record of late, it may be just as bad. I'm hoping that they get their equipment act together, though. It would be so nice. They seemed pretty gung ho at the last Geek Chat.

 

[lonewolfe]

I didn't mean new 811's. I meant newer model, when it is released. Of course, going by their track record of late, it may be just as bad. I'm hoping that they get their equipment act together, though. It would be so nice. They seemed pretty gung ho at the last Geek Chat.

Ah, I misunderstood. I don't think they will replace the boxes personally. Nor would I want to go through that. I was lucky and got mine within a week of ordering. Most were not. I can understand someone wanting a replacement though. From my view point the 811 is junky to some point. Doe sit do what I use it for yes. I can watch my HD programming. The OTA bothers me but I am going to play with it. I think they will have it fixed with updates. I will be patient and wait.

 

[811Sucks]

My s-video looks so bad right now, I think the 266 might have even made it worse. If someone has black hair on the screen, it looks like one big blob of black with some brown outlines around the frame of the hair.

It's beyond ridiculous. Just got off the phone with DISH and they are clueless.

 

[nebguy94]

For example my guide worked great right after getting 265 and less than a week later it started having various problems. I know there were a few others that noticed this. I even wondered if Dish had downloaded an intermediate, "unlabeled " revision in an effort to fix what 265 had messed up. I'm still not convinced they don't do that.

In this specific instance, I don't know enough about how the receiver/EPG work, but applying my 10+ years of professional experience and knowledge in networking, network applications, and general computer science... Is it possible that program guide problems are observed to change independent of receiver upgrades because of changes in the program guide data being downloaded?

 

[zexel]

New software: some good some bad

Now that 266 has downloaded - the good !- the s-video is much better as far as the black level, almost the same as component. The bad!- The local digital NBC signal now has the dreaded 49% problem, which it never had before, and it is not antenna positioning as I have a rotor. I just don`t understand why they can`t fix one problem without creating another one.

 

[aperry]

I lost my CBS to the 49% problem with this update... Was in the upper 60's prior to the "upgrade".

 

[GaryPen]

I'm now having a locking issue with KNTV 11.1 (freq. 12). It was always a little weaker than the others, but would usually lock. Now, I have to do the "info" trick, and wait about a minute, for it to lock.

It could be coincidence, though, as it was always the most troubled OTA channel.

However, I wish Dish would release a "fix" list with each update, so we know exactly what they attempted to fix. I'm sure the reason they don't do it is: A. They don't like to admit there are problems in the first place, and/or B. If a fix doesn't work, or makes something worse, it makes them look bad.

 

[SimpleSimon]

... However, I wish Dish would release a "fix" list with each update, so we know exactly what they attempted to fix. I'm sure the reason they don't do it is: A. They don't like to admit there are problems in the first place, and/or B. If a fix doesn't work, or makes something worse, it makes them look bad.

So true.

 

[GaryPen]

Oldie but goodie

Here's a blast from the past (P263, I think):

Now, when my 811 has trouble locking onto 11.1, it reverts to it's actual frequency (12.1) in the EPG. I don't think I've seen that one since P263.

Also, that channel doesn't lock any more when first switching to it. The "info" trick will work, sometimes. But, even that doesn't work most times now. This channel was always the weakest, and had occasional difficulty. But, now, it's nfg full-time.