Every single one of those offers a variety of content. NFL network does not. Hence, Sports package.... Especially since ALL they do is NFL... Where as comedy central serves Comedy, Drama, Romance, TV shows, Movies etc. Same with every other channel you mention...
NFL Network Dispute? -- Resolved
- Thread starter zippyfrog
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I've got like a 100 music channels in my package. Are you saying those channels also show Comedy, Drama, Romance, TV shows, Movies etc.? BS.
You're trying to make a strawman argument that can be dismantled at every intersection. Again, I watch NFL Network regularly myself, and am sad its gone, but I also realize that it should be in a sports package. No matter how much you try to justify others subsidizing it, It just doesn't make sense when they want a high dollar tag, and no diverse content.
I've been with Dish for 20 years, and when asked by someone whether they should get Dish or DirecTV, I ask them, "How important is watching NFL games to you?" If they say "meh" I tell them they will probably be just as happy with Dish. If they are a big Pro Football fan, though, I tell them to go with DirecTV as DirecTV is the sports-oriented service. DirecTV has had Sunday Ticket as an exclusive for how many years?
Unfortunately for some of us who like watching the NFL and who upgraded to a Hopper 3 this year, we don't really have the option to take our business elsewhere as we're locked into a 2-year contract with Dish and we went in (at least I did) knowing full well that Dish will dig in their heels when it comes to contract negotiations. I suppose it's a mixed blessing this year as my son will be headed to college in the fall and he's the big NFL fan in our family. I guess I'll live with watching the Thursday Night games on our local CBS affiliate, assuming Sinclair and Dish aren't at odds and Dish fixes the Hopper 3 OTA reception issues by then.
Unfortunately for some of us who like watching the NFL and who upgraded to a Hopper 3 this year, we don't really have the option to take our business elsewhere as we're locked into a 2-year contract with Dish and we went in (at least I did) knowing full well that Dish will dig in their heels when it comes to contract negotiations. I suppose it's a mixed blessing this year as my son will be headed to college in the fall and he's the big NFL fan in our family. I guess I'll live with watching the Thursday Night games on our local CBS affiliate, assuming Sinclair and Dish aren't at odds and Dish fixes the Hopper 3 OTA reception issues by then.
They have a total of 8ish exclusive games that will have low ratings and be piss poor matchups. Multisport and AT200 and up like the rest of the league channels.
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Hey, I'm a fan of A La Carte. I'm all for separating channels for purchase. But, you're singling out NFL Network when there are lot's of single themed stations. If I had to pay separately for NFL Network, I wouldn't. I probably haven't watched it five times in the last three years. But, I see no difference in it and many other channels. I'm not trying to justify anything, just pointing out that your position can be applied to lot's of stations. The fact that it costs a little more or less than some others is irrelevant. You're just adding a qualifier to your earlier statement.
Of which music channels are you referring? The in house Dish music channels, the SiriusXM music channels, or the Viacom music channels?
The reason I ask is because all of these channels can easily be rebutted, in regards to your analogy. Dish isn't charging themselves for their music channels. SiriusXM isn't charging a great amount, and MTV/VH1/CMT play music when?
The issue is that the NFL wants to double dip. They want to get high subscriber penertration and charge a large amount per subscriber. The only other channels to do that are ESPN, who pays carriage agreements for nearly all sports (pro and college), and TNT who has a variety of programming. Going back to others' statements (including my own) the NFL offers only NFL Football based programming, which is the exact definition of a niche channel. It is ridiculous to try and get that amount of a hike for a channel that only talks about the NFL, and shows 8 exclusive NFL games a year, regardless of how much you and I like the channel.
I leave you with this question, if all of a sudden Time Warner wanted Boomerang to be put in AT120 and get $2.00 per subscriber for it, what would you say? If it's anything other than "great, I love Boomerang and am willing to pay that", then now you know what all the non-sports fans are saying.
Yes, I understand the discussion and your position. I simply don't agree with it. I have over 250 channels, 230 of them which I don't watch and have no desire to watch. The cumulative cost of my channels is $80. Each channel has a value base which allows it to charge whatever fee it charges. You might argue the basis of NFL's value versus Boomerang, but ultimately the marketplace decides what is charged.
To suggest that a non-sports fan is entitled to some special consideration that us non-music fans or non-reality TV fans or whatever are not, I just don't agree with that. Sports channels of all types are just part of the big package like music, science, history, reality, shopping, etc. The cost of individual channels is not a factor to me, either the package cost has value to me or it doesn't. So, I pay for 250 channels and only watch 20.
Two things.
First, remember that as you pay for the top 250, you already have less of an arguement. You have 230 channels that you don't watch, because you choose to pay for them to get the channels that you want, at least I hope. If not, then you are a TV junky who wants it all. I know people like that exist and some have posted on Sat Guys. You are taking this from your position as a "non-music fan" who chooses to pay for everything, except premium services. I know why you might, as I paid for that package to get The Movie Channel and Encore. But, you need to look at it as if you were paying for the 120 package.
Second, this notion that non-sports fans are entitled for a consideration over your plight is obsurd. That argument of apples and oranges is exactly why I'm willing to bet that we would be like rams if we were to be discussing more important matters over in the Pit. That music channel that you refer to, or reality channel (I'm leaving out the shopping channels. You don't pay to have those.) is costing less money per sub, and has less penertration, as they mostly are in higher packages. Therefore, you have an option to not pay. The NFL is demanding viewership by all. Now, I can't prove this, as I'm tired and don't want to look it up, but I'm betting that the NFL Networks yearly viewership does not warrant what you refer to as the demand it claims that it is worth.
In essence, you are stating that because you, your families, and your friends watch it, then it's in high demand. It is in your microcosm of people, as it is in mine, but it isn't as widely as you think. The NFL as a league being in high demand doesn't automatically mean that the NFL Network is too. I can get my NFL live game fix through ESPN, CBS, FOX, NBC. I can get my talk about the NFL fix through all those, plus FOX Sports 1&2, NBC Sports Net, my local RSN, etc. Simplified, the NFL Network's product is diluted through so many mediums, and is so niche, that it is not in as high of a demand as you claim.
I'd be ok with it being in the AT250 and not just the MSP. That way people that want to pay more money for it will. It's not an AT120 or AT200 channel. It's popular, but costly. Most the beers I drink are the same way. They earn their audience, they make their profit, but a lot of people will not pay the extra money to drink it. You're right, the market will demand, but Dish is at that point that they will tell the supplier, as a service provider, what their customers are willing to or not to pay.
DISH puts on this BIG Video Production because Tribune Broadcasting "Blacked Out" 42 Stations in 33 Markets and wouldn't allow DISH to continue feeding those Stations to their Customers during on/off negotiations. DISH themselves pulls NFL Network & NFL Redzone when negotiations stall, while the NFL wanted DISH to continue feeding their Networks to DISH Customers. Sounds like DISH is very hypocritical and really needs a new PR Firm and/or Person....
I've spent two tours of duty with DISH (2005-2012 & 2014-Current) and it seems like DISH moves forward 3-steps and then backwards 7-steps. DISH has positives like carrying the most College Sports Networks, Best Receivers, etc and then they shoot themselves in the foot. It took DISH almost 7-years to get MLB Extra Innings back and then there are those other protracted disputes like MSG and others.
I've spent two tours of duty with DISH (2005-2012 & 2014-Current) and it seems like DISH moves forward 3-steps and then backwards 7-steps. DISH has positives like carrying the most College Sports Networks, Best Receivers, etc and then they shoot themselves in the foot. It took DISH almost 7-years to get MLB Extra Innings back and then there are those other protracted disputes like MSG and others.
I've already stated that I'm not a big NFL fan, haven't watched the NFL Network many times at all. I have no idea how much DISH pays for the various channels which make up my package. I don't care. Some channels may be $.05, others $5.00, still others are free. It may be very true that all the 90+ SiriusXM channels cost a nickel. The fact is that the cumulative cost of all of those channels comes to $80 per month. Most of that cost is likely from channels which I never watch. However, for me, that package at that cost is a value that I can live with. That's the marketplace in action. I'm a consumer willing to pay that price for that package, even though I don't make use of a large portion of that package.
If DISH continues to offer the NFL Network in it's present form at an increased cost and this causes it to lose customers; if DISH refuses to agree to the NFL's terms and drops the NFL Network and loses customers; if either of these scenarios does not occur; this is the marketplace in action. DISH, as a business, has to make these decisions continually. Their future course will be guided by the marketplace's reaction to their decision.
Not intended to be profound, just practical.
Look at it another way. I pay $80 per month for essentially about 20 channels that I watch. That averages to $4 per channel. If you look at it from that viewpoint, are any one of those channels worth $4 per month individually? Is TCM worth $4? CBS, NBC, AMC, History, Golf Channel, etc.? Obviously, to me they are worth it. From that perspective, the NFL Network for $1.30 is a bargain.
I suspect that many pay TV customers are like myself, they pay for a package yet only view a very limited number of channels in that package.
Just food for thought.
TCM, AMC, and Golf Channel all provide unique Niche programming that really isn't that available elsewhere. NFL Network does not. It shows a bare minimum of games live and replays a ton of games.
Yes, I'm in for the EPL and TCM because that is the only way I can get the EPL and classic cinema (other than a handful of films via Retro). The NFL is available for free on CBS (or is that NBC...yipes, I can't remember!), ABC, and Fox. And if you subscribe to cable, another game is available on ESPN. NFL Network is saturation, not actually a niche channel.
The Red Zone was an ingenious way of partially neutering the advantage that Sunday Ticket gave DirecTV. My wife calls it the ADD channel because it jerks around like crazy. Personally, as a fantasy football player, I loved the channel. I hope it comes back. Barring that, I hope DirecTV finally expands the availability of streaming Sunday Ticket so I could watch it through my XBox One. Right now, they only allow it for a handful of university and apartment dwellers who can't put a dish up to get the service. I too am locked in and hope this is just an outage that lasts for a few weeks in the offseason (similar to Tribune since I lost WPIX). It doesn't hurt as much during rerun season, although I am missing ALL Mets games now.. Grr.....
Do you have a link that says that? Neither of these officials sites say that and at least of what I have read no such offer was made.
http://www.iwantnflnetwork.com/
https://nflcommunications.com/Pages/NFL-Network-and-NFL-RedZone-Dropped-by-Dish.aspx
In fact my reading of their press releases is they have never been dared to be turned down by other carriers to whatever price increase they want not that they gave any kind of extension. If DISH "dropped them" maybe it's because the NFL network gave no sign of any compromise?
When it was priced similarly to package channels it may not have been a big deal. It carries very little that can't be seen/discussed by the Networks on game day or on ESPN all week and for hours at a time except for the now only 8 games that are exclusively on it. Good bet that is part of the contention. As their price raises more than regular package channels it becomes a big deal.
Bengals/Texans, Bengals/Dolphins Jaguars/Titans Falcons/Buccaneers etc?? Those are not games people can't wait for and exactly why those type of games are only on the NFL network. (They do have a couple of better match-ups) I watch Sports often but I realize it is the biggest reason packages have escalated as they have. For some you seem to want it both ways, complain about prices then want DISH to just pay and not have a dispute. And to those who keep erroneously posting DISH prices are not less or much less continue to be wrong. You can pay alot less with DISH for very similar programming and equipment if you choose, a choice you don't have with Direct TV or Cable generally. Not going into all that again but I have proven it over and over.
BTW locals disputes are different than Cable only channel disputes but even more so when they are Sports Cable channels so I am not surprised if DISH handles them differently.
