no line of sight - lazy installer or ??

[Stargazer]

129 does have lower signals and will go out first during rain. 70's and 80's is normal for 105/121/129. Some say they can even get 90's. So the 70's that are you are getting from 129 is not as bad as you think compared to others. There is supposed to be a new satellite launched at 129 in the near future and I hope this helps the signal a bit.

 

[flamtap]

Wow... I just hooked up a ChannelMaster 3020 OTA antenna... I'm able to pick up every local station including the ones on the "back" side of the antenna. The picture is much better than the HD locals. The Orange Bowl looks great! I no longer care when the HD locals are carried by Dish.

Thanks again, everyone.

 

[Hall]

The picture is much better than the HD locals. The Orange Bowl looks great! I no longer care when the HD locals are carried by Dish.

It will be handy to have the HD locals from Dish for "backup" though in cases where you want to record two HD programs at once.

 

[dishcomm]

I am trying to switch to Dish from TWC in the Raleigh area. At my scheduled install yesterday, the installer was not able to find a location on my property where we could get line of sight without either placing the big dish right in front of my house.

It also seemed like she wasn't very interested in trying to make it work -- almost like she was trying to talk me out of the install. Maybe she had something better to do?

I want to get the HD Gold package with Raleigh HD locals. -- this requires the 110/119/129 and 61.5 satellites? Is the 129 at a very low elevation? (my zip is 27518).

She mentioned a few things while here that I wanted to check out with you guys.

1 - Is mounting a dish on the roof a bad idea because of possible damage (to the roof) during windstorms?

1a - If it's okay to mount on the roof? Do most installers have the right equipment to work safely on a roof? (this installer did not, apparently.)

2 - If dish needs a pole-mount in the yard somewhere, must it be in concrete in the ground, or can it be in concrete-filled bucket which is placed in a stable location or partially buried (so the concrete can be easily removed later).

3 - The installer said she doesn't do "wall mounts" (attached to siding or trim) -- When I had Dish network in Colorado, the (2) dishes were attached to the wall. Does this depend on the size of the dish or the type of siding, etc.

I'd really like to ditch cable and go with Dish network... I don't want to give up on the install if the installer was just lazy, but if I really can't get line-of-sight without a ton of effort or an ugly install than I'll stick with cable for a while or see if I would be able to get DirecTV more easily.

Thanks, all!

-Ryan Thompson

If properly installed the dish will not damage the roof..The roof penetrations should be in rafters whenever possible..The mount type is rated by wind load and maximum wind speed.. A larger dish such as the 500/1000Plus will catch more wind, hence the need for support struts. As far as roof damage..Look at it this way, if the wind velocity is enough to tear that dish off the roof, you need to take cover because a lot more than just the roof is going to get hurt..
Work safety depends on the roof pitch..I will not roof mount a dish if the onlyt way to install is to climb out onto a steep roof..The maximum pitch for me is 8/12 or about 25 dgrees..Anything steeper than that and I seek out other mount options..
Typically installers do not carry special roof scaling equipemnt. That equipt. being ropes, knee and toe boards, saftey harnesses atc..Roofers use that stuff..Since most of us have to buy this expensive safety gear the answer is no,, we don't carry it..Bottom line is if you roof is too steep, very few will work on it...
Concrete pole mounts..Yes they are the best way to securely ground mount the dish..Beleive it or not, if the pole needs to be removed it is pretty easy to do so..or the pole can just be cut at the ground surface. Then as an added measure I pound the exposed end of the pole with a sledge hammer to make sure it is permanently below grade.
Wall mounts.....I will do them on Brick, wood, masonite or hardy plank but never asbestos, vinyl stucco or cement fiber board...

 

[dishcomm]

At first, I was going to say that many installers get paid by the job, so it's not in their best, i.e. financial, interest to pass on a job. Then you list the "excuses".... Sounds to me like she doesn't do installations at all !!

Did she mention roof damage from wind ?? Roof mounts are probably the most common method. With the old SuperDishes, I've read that it was NOT recommended to roof-mount those.

Pole-mounting in the ground, with cement, is also another normal method. I asked about this just a few months ago and was told by other installers that it's in fact considered a "standard" mounting option, that is, not an extra cost. Mounting in a cement-filled bucket is common for apartments, condos, etc where the tenant isn't allowed to attach to the building. The bucket is placed on a patio or balcony, for instance.

Finally, wall-mounts are feasible too. They make 'plates' that adapt the angled siding to a flat surface. I don't know if all installers carry these though.

Who did this installer work for, by the way ?? Did you order directly through Dish or through a local store or Dish reseller ??

Pole mounts are NOT standard..In all instances except when we perform work for DNS, we charge a pole mount fee...I will charge a small amount on DNS pole mounts to recover my costs for the materials..IMO Dish has some friggin nerve telling their contractors they cannot charge for what is traditionally chargeable ( pole mounts, wall fishes etc.)work....Ironically ,whgen we do retail work, we remind the customer that wall/ crawl fishes/pole mounts, excessive burial, adding outlets and other non standard work is chargable and the customer must agree to pay before we accept the install.

 

[dishcomm]

Hi all,

Thanks for the tips so far. This was a contractor... From "Rocking R" http://www.rockingr.tv/ I ordered through Dish Network and this is who they sent.

It sounds like it will be hard to hit the 129 satellite, but I think it could be done with a dish mount just behind the peak of my roof. The question there though, is do I want a big dish in the middle of my roof when wind damage is a possibility?

If I can use 2 dishes on the roof to see 110/119 with one and 61.5 with the other will I be missing anything? It sounds like the Raleigh HD channels are on 118.7 -- I assume I would pick this up with the 110/119 dish?

Is it much better to have 2 smaller dishes on the roof if one big dish is not a great idea?

Is the programming on 129 the same as the programming on 61.5? So I only need one or the other? I am interested in HD channels and whatever HD locals are available.

Does anyone know of an installer in the Raleigh area that would do a good job with a roof mount? If I call Dish again and tell them I need a roof mount will they send someone with the right equipment to work on the roof? (The installer yesterday had 1 extension ladder that *might* have been 16 or 18 feet. No way they could get on the 2nd story roof with that.

Thanks again... you've all helped me separate the BS from the real facts.

-RT

Please draw you own inferences form the following: My opinon of Rockin R...No comment....
Locals in RDU are available in HD but as of now negotiations with your local CBS and Fox affiliates are ongoing. HD locals are bounced off the 118.75 bird..You'll need a Dish 1000 plus or if there no line of site for the 129 a Dish 500 plus and 61.5 wing dish.
A single dish solution is always better than two dish. Less lag bolts in the roof.
Programming..National HD programming off the 129 is mirrored off the 61.5.
If your home is a normal two story either slab built or on a crawl space a 28 foot ladder will easily get to the roof line...
You can request that a differnt install company do the work..Dish will honor this request if you push hard enough..Word it this way, "I want a Dish Newtork employee only to do the install. I hear they do excellent work. After the experience I had the first time with a contractor I prefer that the best people come to my home..I will accept no other installer except a Dish Network employee."
That's not to say that any contractor is a poor installer. I am and I'm very good at what I do.."It ain't braggin if ya can do it"....But this suggestion would insure that the same tech didn't come back to your home.

 

[navychop]

"...I will do them on Brick, wood, masonite or hardy plank but never asbestos, vinyl stucco or cement fiber board..."

Hardiplank IS fiber cement board.

 

[Hall]

Pole mounts are NOT standard..

Tell your installer friends here. They specifically told me they ARE a standard mounting option, done at no add'l cost.

 

[dishcomm]

"...I will do them on Brick, wood, masonite or hardy plank but never asbestos, vinyl,stucco or cement fiber board..."

Hardiplank IS fiber cement board.

Yeah I know ..I was refering to that crap that you would see on a home built in the 60's and 70's..It's siding you need a masonry bit to drill thru...It's somewhat brittle..But it's not asbestos..It's some other crap..
Excsuse the crap out of me for the misspelling of "hardiplank"..Tsk tsk....

 

[Liquidforce88]

Tell your installer friends here. They specifically told me they ARE a standard mounting option, done at no add'l cost.

If installed by DNSC or an RSP. A retailer can charge for that.

 

[webbydude]

If installed by DNSC or an RSP. A retailer can charge for that.

And even if it's done by an RSP, it's only done AFTER all other mouting options are exhausted.

 

[dishcomm]

If installed by DNSC or an RSP. A retailer can charge for that.

I worte that...We charge extra fr pole mounts on RETAIL deals..But somebody didn't read that part and fired away.

 

[bderouen]

Hi all,

Thanks for the tips so far. This was a contractor... From "Rocking R" http://www.rockingr.tv/ I ordered through Dish Network and this is who they sent.

It sounds like it will be hard to hit the 129 satellite, but I think it could be done with a dish mount just behind the peak of my roof. The question there though, is do I want a big dish in the middle of my roof when wind damage is a possibility?

If I can use 2 dishes on the roof to see 110/119 with one and 61.5 with the other will I be missing anything? It sounds like the Raleigh HD channels are on 118.7 -- I assume I would pick this up with the 110/119 dish?

Is it much better to have 2 smaller dishes on the roof if one big dish is not a great idea?

Is the programming on 129 the same as the programming on 61.5? So I only need one or the other? I am interested in HD channels and whatever HD locals are available.

Does anyone know of an installer in the Raleigh area that would do a good job with a roof mount? If I call Dish again and tell them I need a roof mount will they send someone with the right equipment to work on the roof? (The installer yesterday had 1 extension ladder that *might* have been 16 or 18 feet. No way they could get on the 2nd story roof with that.

Thanks again... you've all helped me separate the BS from the real facts.

-RT

Hi!
You asked about the difference in 61.5 and 129. I learned through reading here, dbstalk and avsforum that 61.5 and 129 are identical. In fact, 129 is a weaker signal, so I got the Dish contractors that came BACK out to mount a separate dish to pull down 61.5.

The interesting thing I found was, while the last guy that came out did what I asked him to do, pull down 61.5, he wa totally unaware of what 61.5 DID! He said "so that's supposed to pull down the HDs?" I kinda got scared there, as I thought "well...shouldn't YOU know this?!" Well, he did the switch check, it came in and I pulled to some of the HDs that I was not able to get before! It worked great!

I found your post interesting. You had almost the same problem with your Dish Subcontractor as I did with my DirecTV contractor. It's because of that D* contrator is why I moved to Dish. He was supposed to be at my new townhouse between 2-4 pm. He shows up at 9pm ! Then he starts talking about no line of site. Yeah, I knew it wouldn't be an easy install, but I figured he should be able to do something.

When I told him he should be able to get someting in if he does a roof mount, he says he wouldn't do that, as my roof is a 'gabeled' roof! "Oh, I woudln't get up there anyway." I told him "then go home! have someone else call me tomorrow!

Of course, they didn't call, so I called! I called Dish and got someone out in 3 days and got me up and runnin' with no problems. The funny thing was my Dish guy USED to work for DirecTV! He said the Direct guy would have had no problem...even an easier time than he did, considering the location of their birds!

Oh well...it's sad, but you take the chance of a shoddy job wherever you go, I guess!

Good luck!!
Bruce

 

[Hall]

I worte that...We charge extra fr pole mounts on RETAIL deals..But somebody didn't read that part and fired away.

Bullsh*t ... you worte no such thing. You did add "Ironically ,whgen we do retail work, we remind the customer that wall/ crawl fishes/pole mounts, excessive burial, adding outlets and other non standard work is chargable...." a few sentences later though. Is that your disclaimer now ??

 

[navychop]

Besides the better signal, 61.5 has the HD demo channel. Used to be an aquarium; now just ads/"coming attractions" kind of stuff.

 

[chadzx11]

Hi all,

Thanks for the tips so far. This was a contractor... From "Rocking R" http://www.rockingr.tv/ I ordered through Dish Network and this is who they sent.

I used to work for Rocking R. Though we had equipment to put SD's on roofs, Word I got from the managers were that we don't do it. I never installed any super dishes. I was never told not to put a 1000 on a roof either. They only wanted us to put them on the overhangs at the eaves, not over living spaces. They have loads of damage claims, because their crew here doesn't know the usage of caulk or other sealant. I never had any damage claims.

You can read more about my ordeal here:

http://groups.msn.com/SatelliteBroadbandTechnicians/bewareof.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=39316&LastModified=4675604196782759789

Dishcomm feel free to share your thoughts on these people. You've seen the same things I have, no doubt.

 

[dishcomm]

Bullsh*t ... you worte no such thing. You did add "Ironically ,whgen we do retail work, we remind the customer that wall/ crawl fishes/pole mounts, excessive burial, adding outlets and other non standard work is chargable...." a few sentences later though. Is that your disclaimer now ??

It's right there in my original post.....Retail....Where's the problem?....What are getting so upset about...The post is what it is..Normally we read the entire post before drawing any inferences from it.. no discalimer..I simply stated that we charge fo rthese items on retail installs....If that doesn't work for you, not my problem..Have a good evening, sir.

 

[dishcomm]

I used to work for Rocking R. Though we had equipment to put SD's on roofs, Word I got from the managers were that we don't do it. I never installed any super dishes. I was never told not to put a 1000 on a roof either. They only wanted us to put them on the overhangs at the eaves, not over living spaces. They have loads of damage claims, because their crew here doesn't know the usage of caulk or other sealant. I never had any damage claims.
I had to edit this after I read your rip off post....I have heard horror stories from former Rockin R techs I work with..The nonsensical no explanation chargebacks..The refusal to pay for legitimate work.. Why or how these people have not been sued yet is a miracle
I have no clue how they get away with this criminal activity..It is a violation of state and fedral labor law to withhold pay for work performed. It is also illegal to charge back a worker without explaining in writing to the person charged back.
Another contractor told me that there is a DNS contractor that sells cable fittings, etc to the techs and not only charges an arm and leg for the stuff but also double bills the tech. Instead of the tech paying for the EQ, the company would deduct the purchase amount from the techs pay..Then a few weeks later the deduction would show up again..For the same stuff....Amazing stuff goes on...It's a wonder anyone worth a darn is still in this business..It's a cut throat fly by night world..Owners of some of these install companies should be thrown in jail...Or taken out back and shown the woodshed...Personally I will try the courts first then if that doesn't work, there's always the woodshed.
Thing is with DNSC's pay rates so low here, no one who is a good tech that can complete 3-5 jobs a day would get crushed financially working for hourly pay..The DNSC office statrts all techs regardless of experience at $11.50 per hour..At least that's the last time I looked at their website...Top pay I think is $14.75/hr... I checked other cities on Dish's website for installer pay...Stockton, CA $13.50
Tigard, OR..$12.00, Hayward, CA( Near LA) $16.00,Grand Junction, CO. $11.25, Henrietta, NY...(western NY) $12.00....Thronwood,NY( NYC Suburb) $14.00....To be honest I would tell them add $5 per hr and I might consider it..
You can read more about my ordeal here:

http://groups.msn.com/SatelliteBroadbandTechnicians/bewareof.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=39316&LastModified=4675604196782759789

Dishcomm feel free to share your thoughts on these people. You've seen the same things I have, no doubt.

I tried to avoind putting SD's on roofs. As a last resort and to get the job done I owuld mount the dish as close to the edge as possible to avoid placing the mast foot over the living area. Now with the D-1000plus being almost as bulky as the SD I am getting customers who are almost desperate to get HD programming, so they are usually cooperative with roof mounts even after I explain the potential issues...I am very careful to get as many penetrations into rafters as possible..I wish the struts were telescoping to accomodate the truss system 24" on center rafters..I use RTG 50 year silicone for my penetrations..I am generous with that stuff. In 9 years I have never had a roof leak complaint.

 

[bmxcookie]

Correction!

Yes, installers are paid by the Job and you would think that its in their best intrest to do your Job to get paid.

The problem is this, lets say the installer gets 4 Jobs per day, its in their best intrest to blow off the hard Job and do 3 easy Jobs instead of spending all day doing the 1 hard Job.

I am a DNSC tech and we are paid by the hour, NOT by the job. Some contractors are hourly as well. Most though are by the job as retailers generally are as well.

 

[dishcomm]

I am a DNSC tech and we are paid by the hour, NOT by the job. Some contractors are hourly as well. Most though are by the job as retailers generally are as well.

Unfortunately ,you are correct..There are a small percentage of contract techs who will blow of difficult jobs in favor of easy ones..However the problem is not all the techs..Part of the blame rests upon the system as well..Techs are not compensated for exrtraordinary work. Also if a job will require an inordinate amount of time the result is the other jobs for that day get delayed or at worst rescheduled. That's due to the fact that ther is no time cushion built into the system. I have heard stories form techs employed by other contractors of how they walk out of their office with 5-6 or 7 jobs...far more than can be completed in a normal work day. Their bosses know darn well there will be rescheduled jobs..And who suffers?..The customer. That's not right.
As far as I'm concerned ther's no excuse for a no call no show..Commuincation is the key..Customers are going to be upset if their job is delayed or rescheduled, but much less so if the tech offers the courstey of a phone call..