* Note - Do Not Call For Mpeg4 UNTIL FEB 1ST* (1 Viewer)

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shanewalker

Overall, an O.K. Guy
Supporting Founder
Mar 15, 2005
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I'm having flashbacks to the V* announcements last year. It took a while for the CSRs to get all their info and stories straight...and that also had all the appearances of last minute decisions after months of dialogue/deliberation. Still, the pricing structure makes a bit of sense to me. Don't like the wait, but I imagine that the first month or two of availability both the channels and the hardware will be in a bit of a state of "flux" if you catch my drift. Might not be bad to be pushed to April 1 as an upgrade customer wanting to take advantage of the 'rebate'.

Won't miss the Olympics HD coverage, thank goodness (MPEG-2). Still, a shame I'll miss most if not all of Battlestar's second season on UHD (imagine they'll do repeats, though). Perhaps, all told, the HD-Lite resolution issue will be sorted out by mid-Spring, too. They may be in a hurry to get the channels launched, then work out the MPEG-4 optimization and then bump up the rez to the real deal--here's hoping.
 
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Brewer4

SatelliteGuys Pro
Supporting Founder
Mar 12, 2005
4,022
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Hartford Connecticut
I must be an idiot because I just dont get the frustrations with leasing versus own. Lets see some scenarios.

1. You bought a 921 2 years ago for 900 bucks
2. You got full use out of it knowing which channels it could get.
3. Its been flakey so not perfect but still worked.
4. So lets say you can then sell it for 100 bucks. Somebody on ebay will buy it.
5. You then get the newly improved 622 for only 99 bucks. It washes with the resell of the 921
6. You get to enjoy the 622 for no additional monthly costs and more HD than before. Dont go there about HDLite please.
7. If you leave Dish, you owe them nothing and they take the box back.
8. End scenario, no additional cost to you.

Scenario 2

1. You lease 942. It cost you $250.
2. You get full use out of 942 for 1-6 months
3. New channels come and you gotta have them.
4. Pay extra $99
5. Total cost to get HD DVR $350
6. No additional box costs. If you quit, you hand box back, you owe them nothing, they dont owe you.
7. Wash hands

What I am missing? I am sure there are more complex scenarios with multiple boxes but in the end, if you plan to stay with Dish, whats the issue?
 

Stargazer

Supporting Founder
Supporting Founder
Sep 7, 2003
16,561
339
Western WV
It is not even a month a way, within weeks not months. I think many of us knew that the upgrade to MPEG-4 was not going to be the best and that there would be some loss as a result.

This could be an early indicator as to what will be expected when the SD MPEG-2 receivers will need to also be swapped out to MPEG-4. The difference is there are a LOT more SD customers out there than HD and they will NOT tolerate the lease and charges upfront. They will drop Dish in a HEARTBEAT!

When DirecTv gets their HD channels on and gets their deal together, Dish will have to match it or lose their HD customers. Perhaps some should wait and see what DirecTv is going to do but that may be several months.
 

Airblair

SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 17, 2003
248
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San Francisco Bay Area
Sean Mota said:
This is where I get confused. I have yet to find the information on owners and how it will be handled as opposed to lease receivers. I do not think that was covered last night (unless I am mistaken).

I said this before in another thread, I'll say it again:

I own a 921 and the way I see it, there is no reason whatsoever for Dish to want me to turn it in if/when I take advantage of the April rebate offer.

Do some of you people actually think Dish would want these older receivers? (The ones that are owned, not leased.) They'd take a PR hit for demanding owned equipment, they'd have to store or dispose of these things, and for what purpose? To alleviate any service burden? I thought these suckers only came with a one-year warranty.

Or maybe they just don't want any OTA DVRs out there . . . but it's my understanding that you need to subscribe to Dish locals to use these, so it's not as if Dish would be losing a customer.

In my mind it makes no sense for Dish to want my 921. And I'm looking forward to having another OTA HDTV receiver with my 622. (Which I might need, since the 622 only has 1 OTA tuner.)



And come to think of it, why couldn't these receivers still be used as exclusively OTA DVRs even after Dish switches all HD programming to MPEG4?
 

Brewer4

SatelliteGuys Pro
Supporting Founder
Mar 12, 2005
4,022
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Hartford Connecticut
Airblair said:
I said this before in another thread, I'll say it again:
I own a 921 and the way I see it, there is no reason whatsoever for Dish to want me to turn it in if/when I take advantage of the April rebate offer.
Do some of you people actually think Dish would want these older receivers? (The ones that are owned, not leased.) They'd take a PR hit for demanding owned equipment, they'd have to store or dispose of these things, and for what purpose? To alleviate any service burden? I thought these suckers only came with a one-year warranty.
Or maybe they just don't want any OTA DVRs out there . . . but it's my understanding that you need to subscribe to Dish locals to use these, so it's not as if Dish would be losing a customer.
In my mind it makes no sense for Dish to want my 921. And I'm looking forward to having another OTA HDTV receiver with my 622. (Which I might need, since the 622 only has 1 OTA tuner.)
And come to think of it, why couldn't these receivers still be used as exclusively OTA DVRs even after Dish switches all HD programming to MPEG4?

Exactly, the units can still do SD, current HD and act as an OTA HD DVR. The cost to collect eventual obsolete units is definately not in Dish's plan.
 

tonyp56

SatelliteGuys Pro
Supporting Founder
May 13, 2004
799
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Tulsa, Oklahoma, United States
Why does it really matter to you folks that just bought a 942? First, most of you should have known better, but no, had to go get the latest receiver. Secondly, why does it matter if it is a lease or not, if you get rid of Dish, your 942 isn't going to do anything for you, perhaps allow you to watch OTA channels, WITHOUT EPG data, but other than this, what do you plan on doing with your receiver if you get rid of Dish? You can't sell it, because now it won't be worth anything close to what you paid. You went out and bought a 942, fully knowing that MPEG4 was right around the corner, and now you want to gripe because you've got to turn it in for new MPEG4 leased receiver. Don't turn it in, keep it, until you think you got your use out of it, then upgrade. But stop the bitching.
The point is, those of you that recently went out and bought a 942, knowing that Dish was going to MPEG4, and that the 942 wasn't MPEG4 compatible, TO BAD. If you bought one, and didn't know, then I'm sorry, but really, isn't that like anything else, buy it today and it will be obsolete tomorrow. Think about the last computer you bought, wouldn't it be nice if HP, Dell, Apple, etc. came to you and said "if you return your computer, we will send you the newest and latest PC for $5 a month lease." Tell me you wouldn't like the sound of that.
End of rant,...
 

dlsnyder

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 8, 2003
1,825
3
Moreno Valley, CA
They will _eventually_ do to ALL HD receiver owners what they did to HD-enabled 5000 owners a few years ago when they switched all HD streams to 8PSK. The outcry was small then, but today with a much louder installed base of HD viewers they will have find some way to reimburse everyone who shelled out ALOT of money for an HD receiver than will no longer be able to receive HD.

In time, maybe 5-10 years out, all currently active SD-only receivers will also become useless. That is one very compelling reason why I believe we will NEVER see the long awaited NBR upgrade to the original 5xx series DVRs. They will make us an offer we can't refuse to change them out for a ViP622. Anything less than "free" with lifetime waived DVR fee is not acceptable.
 

mwgiii

Gaming Guru & Pub Member
Supporting Founder
Sep 8, 2003
2,099
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Birmingham, AL
Scott Greczkowski said:
I actually like Charlies plan. When the MPEG2 HD stream are shut off next year your 942 is going to be worthless anyways. Its not like you will be able to sell it on EBAY.

Plus since the unit belongs to them if new an upgraded receiver comes out you would probably be able to upgrade as well.

And as long as your a Dish Network customer you can keep the box.

Really its not a bad deal.

It is a great deal for people who lease.

It is a terrible deal for people who paid $950 for a 921 18 months ago.
 

jeffincolo

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jan 3, 2006
163
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No - he was talking about the vip622 that would lease for 299.00 and said later they would give the date of the rollout which never happened.

Jeff
 
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volfan615

Pub Member / Supporter
Pub Member / Supporter
Dec 3, 2003
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Maybe you missed the chat where Charlie stated that Mpeg4 was going to be further off and that Turbo 8psk (or what ever it is) was going to be the solution for the near term. He stated that there just wasn't that much gain right now with MPEG4. If I remember correctly that was only a couple of months ago.
 
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JoeSp

Supporting Founder
Supporting Founder
Oct 11, 2003
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I bought my 811 for $149 when they first came out. It has been replaced once at Dish's expense. I intend to exchange all my receivers for two 211's and one 622. If I understand this I will be charged a $5.00 lease fee for each receiver. I am now paying $5.00 for each receiver anyway. So the lease deal is a wash and if there is a problem they replace the receiver at their cost. A win-win deal. As for the DVR price and monthly cost -- a small price to pay for a HD recorder. Anybody price one of those standalone HD recorders from Pioneer or Sony? They ain't cheap! :)
 

warper

SatelliteGuys Family
Dec 23, 2004
46
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Charlie sure did say that. That was the only reason I leased a 942 in December through CEO. I even asked them about it and they said oh Mpeg4 is a ways off. But this really doesn't surprise me. If I serviced my customers the way Charlie doe I wouldn't have any.:D
 

waltinvt

Supporting Founder
Supporting Founder
Feb 16, 2004
3,439
1
Vermont
Scott Greczkowski said:
I actually like Charlies plan. When the MPEG2 HD stream are shut off next year your 942 is going to be worthless anyways. Its not like you will be able to sell it on EBAY.

Plus since the unit belongs to them if new an upgraded receiver comes out you would probably be able to upgrade as well.

And as long as your a Dish Network customer you can keep the box.

Really its not a bad deal.

This is one of the things a lot of us are pissed off about !

There have always been and always will be receiver upgrades but they were a customer choice if they wanted the newer features it provided, not because new channels (and evertually all channels) would not be receivable on it.

This is a whole new senerio with a lot different impact that involves relatively new and expensive hardware. It also is in contradiction to what a lot of us were told by Dish when and since we signed up for HD.

I accept that the 811 upgrade to a 211 seems relatively reasonable but with what some people spent on 921s and 942s, it's outragous - especially in light of how they're going about this.

If they had just done 2 things different:

1. Been a little more honest and put the new channels up on MEPG2 (which we all know they really are now ) and said Dish will be switching over to MEPG4 over the coming year (or whatever is a realistic timeframe) and between now and then everyone that wants to will be given the opportunity to upgrade. At that point we will shut down HD on MPEG2.

2. All MPEG2 HD receivers get replaced with their counter part in MPEG4 for the same minimal cost.

This would have shown that they wern't trying to extort anyone with the new channels and also that they cared about their existing high-end customers.

It's that simple.

Oh and one more thing:

Charlie "miss-stated" the deal about HD DNS not being allowed by law until June. That's flat out wrong and I'd be surprised that he didn't know that. They're allowed NOW and the only significant thing that happens in June is in connection with the signal testing appeal process for digital signals that happens in June for the top 100 (I believe) DMAs and June of '07 for the rest.

A lot of us have been "hanging" on the HD DNS situation for a longggggg time and that statment was like a slap in the face. Especially for those of us that rallied behind Dish and the whole "I Want My HDTV" group proceeding the SHVERA hearings.
 

BobMurdoch

Playing XBoxOne SeriesX/Supporter
Supporting Founder
Sep 12, 2003
5,770
190
Brielle, NJ
tihs said:
I Just Got a Dish 942 on Dec 27th, I am a new Customer, i paid 250 to get this box, am i looking at paying another 99 to get th upgraded box??

You can either pay the $99 to get an updated box now, or wait until later in the next year or two when they sweeten the deal and make it a free swap (they eventually have to turn off the Mpeg2 streams to handle future bandwidth needs)

You will not lose any channels you already have, but you won't be able to see the new ones....
 

BobMurdoch

Playing XBoxOne SeriesX/Supporter
Supporting Founder
Sep 12, 2003
5,770
190
Brielle, NJ
volfan615 said:
Maybe you missed the chat where Charlie stated that Mpeg4 was going to be further off and that Turbo 8psk (or what ever it is) was going to be the solution for the near term. He stated that there just wasn't that much gain right now with MPEG4. If I remember correctly that was only a couple of months ago.

Mpeg4 is going to be farther off. They will be transmitting these in Mpeg2 but labelling them Mpeg4 so only the new boxes will see them.

Someone just got "smart" and figured out a way to spearhead the upgrade cycle while giving them time to work out the encoding kinks and stop losing anymore HD ground to D* as they roll out more HD LIL markets.
 

RandallA

Supporting Founder
Supporting Founder
Dec 13, 2004
10,555
67
San Francisco Bay Area
"Maybe you missed the chat where Charlie stated that Mpeg4 was going to be further off"

For what is worth, it wasn't Charlie that said that. That was said in a Tech Chat by the VP of Engineering I believe. They gave us all that crap about Turbo 8psk.

Then a few weeks later in the Charlie Chat Charlie spilled the beans about HD Locals being in MPG4.
 
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