P268 is here!

[WeeJavaDude]

I've had my 811 since March, and it's hardware revision LADD.My question
is do any of the newer hardware revisions I'm seeing in this thread work any
better or have a better picture than ours with the older revisions?

Well I am not sure if the firmware is responsible for the color settings related to the PQ. If they are then there is an issue. From what I can tell the firmware LADD, LABD etc cannot be changed by Sat download. The boot code is usually a piece of code on a chip and cannot be updated from a remote site.

I hope this is not the case and they are trying to do some crazy hack to get around this fact. I might be wrong about updating the boot firmware, but this has been the case in most of the embedded systems I have worked on. The boot firmware provides the loading of the image and some low level call support and therefore usually does not change a lot and is not field updatable.. Based on the fact that this boot versions are not changing with the software updates I would expect that it cannot be down via SAT.

I have not seen any trend that would indicate that the fix to the issues lie in the firmware..

 

[GaryPen]

Wouldn't the firmware be simiilar to a mainboard BIOS on a PC? If that's the case, it may be possible to upgrade it, if the chip is flashable, no?

 

[WeeJavaDude]

Wouldn't the firmware be simiilar to a mainboard BIOS on a PC? If that's the case, it may be possible to upgrade it, if the chip is flashable, no?

Well it may be flashable.. my guess is it is. I also guess that since this version never changes it cannot be updated via their current distribution mechanism. In a lot of cases this level of code is very stable and does not require online updating.

In the projects I have worked on it was one of these chicken and egg situation that prevented updates from occuring remotely. The main software is downloaded into flash memory and stored. The firmware would then take the compressed image and uncompress it into working memory and boot it. This is what I think the LADD refers to, but I could be totally off base. Someone that knows feel free to correct me.

The problem is that to update the firware software you would need software to decompress the image and boot it. This is where the chicken and egg thing comes into play. So what you usually do is keep very minimal set of functionality into the boot firmware and as much as possible into the main image.

By firmware I refer to the software that is loaded on the 811 and cannot be update. Like I said since I don't have 811 specific experience this is all opinion based on observations and experience with other embedded hardware.

As to the Bios on a computer, yes this is similar and yes it is technically possible. I don't recall any manufacture suppring automatic BIOS updates that don't require user intervention. Is there such a thing?

 

[Parlyle]

Reply:

I, for one, would be very interested in hearing your impressions of your new 811.
If you have read the threads, perhaps you can include comments about whether some of the many problems have been solved.

I am really anxious to see this version firmware (SOFTWARE: P268LAMD-N
BOOTSTRAP: 102 LAMD)
on a HDTV. I got the new 811 prior to my purchase of a new TV, because my hope is that we can get one of the new Samsung HL-P50 or 56XX (we haven't decided on one with a OTA tuner or not) that are supposed to be on the market in September or October or even November 2004. So my first impressions are really from a good quality SD TV. No dropping OTA digital (I get digital from Minneapolis/St. Paul MN area) With scanning I got 11 digital stations with 10 solid locks at about 86-94%, some with multi-channels, and 14 analog stations.
The color on our JVC-32" vintage 1996 is remarkable. I am impressed with the PQ even on the downconverted HD channels from E*. I will keep posting when and if anything funky starts happening. Lyle

 

[gpflepsen]

Maybe the 811 needs a floppy boot dish, er disk, to change the firmware.

 

[rrolsbe]

Firmware updates fixing things we do not want! Maybe?

My guess is Dish is putting more effort into fixing things we do not want, like making sure reception of OTA HDTV will not work without a dish subscription. They have a few more months before the one year commitments start to expire.

It sure would be nice if the firmware updates addressed more of the problems.

Just my 2 cents
Ron

 

[jynxsee]

Now that I have had 268 for a few, I have definately noticed one thing. My 811 isn't crashing almost daily like it has since 266. I'm betting that has somthing to do with this minor 'fix'.

 

[GaryPen]

They did say it had something to do with "memory". A memory leak, or other memory problems could lead to crashing and lockups.

 

[WeeJavaDude]

They did say it had something to do with "memory". A memory leak, or other memory problems could lead to crashing and lockups.

A small memory leak on something like a TV receiver can lead to a lot of random problems and would result in a lot of different crash/leak reports. I could fully understand why they sent a fix out. The same memory leak could show up in all sorts of way.

1) User press guide button and box locks.
2) User goes to the menu and the box crashes.
3) Box randomely locks or crashes on its on.
etc.. Same bug different symptoms.

Depending where the leak is and how it occurs it could show up in numerous ways depending on how a person uses the box and the next memory access after the user runs out of memory.

 

[811Sucks]

I talked to someone high up at DISH today. They said the 269 is out in mid-July..very soon. It's supposed to fix the dark crap. They fully acknowledge the issue.

The guy said if I'm unsatisfied with the 269 fix, he will send me a model 6000 with the OTA tuner card. Do you guys think that is worth it? Is the 6000 better than the 811 or am I getting stiffed with the older model?

 

[keith]

I talked to someone high up at DISH today. They said the 269 is out in mid-July..very soon. It's supposed to fix the dark crap. They fully acknowledge the issue.

The guy said if I'm unsatisfied with the 269 fix, he will send me a model 6000 with the OTA tuner card. Do you guys think that is worth it? Is the 6000 better than the 811 or am I getting stiffed with the older model?

The 6000 does not have DVI. The OTA (8vsb) tuner module has a fan that is permanently on and makes a little noise. There is no "picture in guide" option. The guide doesn't look too far ahead in time. The HD and SD outputs are mutually exclusive i.e. you can only enable one or the other. Digital OTA is reliable. Analog OTA is average. The 6000 is a legacy model and will not work with Dishpro equipment unless you insert a legacy adapter. Now for the big one - the 6000 does not have crushed blacks.

The 811 is superior in many ways. If Dish can fix the crushed blacks, improve the digital OTA locking and analog OTA quality, it will be way ahead of the 6000.

Keith.

 

[811Sucks]

Thanks Keith...hopefully the 269 will fix this problem once and for all.

Forgive my ignorance, but what does legacy mean and what is Dishpro equipment?

(by the way, the guy I talked to said he could hook me up with a 921 because he had some in the warehouse in Colorado. To me, if you can't archive the HD programs then this 921 isn't worth it.)

 

[charper1]

As to the Bios on a computer, yes this is similar and yes it is technically possible. I don't recall any manufacture suppring automatic BIOS updates that don't require user intervention. Is there such a thing?

All updates require I small amount of user intervention, but ASUS and MSI both offer live BIOS updating, like windowd or norton updating, all you do is reboot the PC when its done.

 

[keith]

Forgive my ignorance, but what does legacy mean and what is Dishpro equipment?

Receivers with 4 digits (2700, 4000, 5000, 6000, etc.) are older so called 'legacy' receivers that work with the original style LNB's and switches. Dish later introduced newer Dishpro LNB's and switches that use 'frequency stacking' to send both odd and even polarities down a single cable. Newer 3 digit receivers (301, 501, 811, 921, ...) can internally 'unstack' the signals, and also work with the legacy LNB's and switches which are always 'unstacked'.

Older 4 digits receivers need the Dishpro legacy adapter ONLY IF they are connected to Dishpro LNB's and switches. The adapter does the 'unstacking'.

If you go into the 811 menus and look at the Check Switch screen, it will tell you what type of LNB's and switch configuration you have. If Dish are offering to swap your 811 out with a 6000, they might also offer you the legacy adapter if you need it.

Keith.

 

[WeeJavaDude]

All updates require I small amount of user intervention, but ASUS and MSI both offer live BIOS updating, like windowd or norton updating, all you do is reboot the PC when its done.

Hmm Cool. My last board was an ABIT and it did not support anything like that. You needed to boot to a floppy to flash the BIOS. I find this very interesting that Windows allows this type of functionaity. Well Figured it was technically possible but not an easy thing in the embedded space. My guess that is why you tend to have this boot image that boots the main OS.

 

[mattyro]

the 6000 is presently selling for $350-$500 on ebay. you can get one, sell it and still buy an 811 and have enough money for 10 dvd's, or a tune-up, or a new dvd player, a cheap subwoofer, a night out,or whatever. I believe people wit projectors and plasmas want the 6000 for its VGA output. I think.

 

[W4WMM]

Not sure what actually happened to cause this change but thought I'd post this info anyway.

When I first got my 811 in June, I could receive all my OTA channels that were broadcast on UHF but could not receive the two broadcast in VHF (ch 9). Several days ago I saw the software update went to 268 but didn't notice any change until today; all of a sudden the two digital channels on VHF started coming in perfectly clear with a signal of 90%. Both of those channels 10-1 and 55-1 are owned by the same station and both are transmitted on VHF ch 9.

I've emailed the engineer of that station to see if they have made any changes. Any of you notice anything similar in your areas?

 

[Craig Henrikson]

Receivers with 4 digits (2700, 4000, 5000, 6000, etc.) are older so called 'legacy' receivers that work with the original style LNB's and switches. Dish later introduced newer Dishpro LNB's and switches that use 'frequency stacking' to send both odd and even polarities down a single cable. Newer 3 digit receivers (301, 501, 811, 921, ...) can internally 'unstack' the signals, and also work with the legacy LNB's and switches which are always 'unstacked'.

Keith -- I remain confused about this "Odd and Even Polarities" thing. In normal satellite broadcasting the transponders are either vertical or horizontal polarity. With Dish (and ExpVue and D*) those polarities are either left or right circular polarity. Those signals have always been over a single wire, either using a polarity motor with C-Band or a voltage switch with DBS. Where does the Odd and Even come in when dealing with polarity??

Thanks,

Craig