Picture Quality gone to crap!!!!

[Jimmy J]

Just wondering if anyone here has noticed the decrease in picture quality as well. For the past few weeks now, I've noticed a big degradation in the picture quality. I've got a Dish 500 pointed at 110/119. Strength on 110 is in the high 80's, and high 90's for 119.

The picture seems a lot softer than before, and I'm noticing pixelation....even on the SD channels! What gives?

 

[goaliebob99]

Hi! sounds like your dish needs to be repeaked. On a dish 500 you should be 90+ on all tps.. Allthough dish recommends that the 80's are acceptable, I would repoint just to rule it out...

 

[boba]

I would look for some change in your equipment, the problem is not national so something is different in your system.

 

[rdinkel]

It is not your signal strength. Something else is going on with your HDTV. Did anyone make any changes to your display setting?

 

[RandallA]

Just wondering if anyone here has noticed the decrease in picture quality as well. For the past few weeks now, I've noticed a big degradation in the picture quality. I've got a Dish 500 pointed at 110/119. Strength on 110 is in the high 80's, and high 90's for 119.

The picture seems a lot softer than before, and I'm noticing pixelation....even on the SD channels! What gives?

What receiver(s) do you have? I don't think the problem is with your Signal Strenght either. Like boba said, something might have changed with your equipment or something went bad. Bad connector, bad ground block, chewed cable, etc.....

 

[Jimmy J]

Just rechecked my signal strengths. I'm peaking at 97 on 110, and 105 on 119. And no...nothing in my setup has changed, and all settings on tv are as they should be.

 

[MikeD-C05]

Maybe your tv is going out or the picture needs to be rechecked on its convergence and the tv on its picture controls. My Toshiba needs to be redone on its convergence every now and again to make the picture its best. I am always playing with the picture controls to try to get the best mode - movie vs standard and I always set the sharpness down to about 15 or less . IT makes a standard def picture look awful when the sharpness is turned up.

 

[fz5j2r]

Soft picture and pixelization/macroblocking

Jimmy J


In my opinion this is caused by lack of bandwidth. I am not an expert but have read enough to know that Dish does not have enough bandwidth so they reduce the bitrate and resolution which has a direct effect on picture quality.

Some of the techies on this site have the equipment to measure the factors that effect picture quality and have reported these numbers in the past.

I have been working with Dish technical people in the hopes that with the feedback I provide they can make improvements. So far there has been no improvement.

HD programming began to get soft in December of 2005 and has gotten steadilly worse since then.

Most people who have not seen good HD do not know there is a difference.

It all boils down to economics. Higher quality means more satellites or a reduction of channels to transmitted. I would just as soon they get rid of a lot of the least watched channels in favor of higher quality HD and SD signals.

However, the old adage applys - you cannot put 10 pounds of crap into a five pound bag.

So there is probably nothing wrong with your equipment or satellite receiver/dish.

 

[kstuart]

First off, ignore people who can't read 3 sentences, and so missed it when you said:

For the past few weeks now

Second, which channels are your referring to ?

Are you referring to your local channels, or national channels ? If national channels, which ones ?

 

[fz5j2r]

kstuart,


This problem is not confined to "the past few weeks". Signal degradation has been occurring since late in 2005.

The channels affected are all HD and nearly all SD.

HD is very soft. You used to be able to see human hairs very clearly. Now you rarely do. HD picture quality through Dish is not much better than SD with an over the air antenna.

SD is unwatchable on many of the sports channels. The picture is full of jaggies, moire and macroblocking, primarily during motion. Static camera shots are usually not bad. Other non sports programming has a lot of macroblocking, especially in dark scenes.

These issues are not our imagination. They are regularily reported on in the mainstream media.

This problem will only get worse as Dish adds more HD channels.

Directv has many of the same issues.

Many readers also complain about poor cable pictures, however it depends upon the cable system.

I recently visited my son in Raleigh NC. He has cable. The picture quality displayed on his Sony HD televisions is absolutely flawless. I was truly amazed at the quality coming from cable.

So great picture quality is available and varies throughout the country.

Dish does have truly poor picture quality compared to other sources, including some cable systems.

Dish picture qualily will remain passable to those who have not seen what a great picture looks like.

 

[bigjohn26]

Concur in lousy HD quality...

I have also noticed a degradation in picture and sound quality on HD. I'm guessing over-compression of signals is doing it and also causing audio stutter in recorded HD programs.

When I first got my 622 in June, 2006, a rule of thumb was that HD recorded shows to SD recorded shows took off about 6 hours of hard-drive space to 1 hour when the shows are deleted off the hard-drive. Now it is only it only 3 or 4 hours, depending on the channel - some being MPEG-2, some being MPEG-4.

What is Dish going to do in 2009 when all programming is to be in HD? Is the bandwidth there for all the programming they do?

 

[Jimmy J]

kstuart,


This problem is not confined to "the past few weeks". Signal degradation has been occurring since late in 2005.

The channels affected are all HD and nearly all SD.

HD is very soft. You used to be able to see human hairs very clearly. Now you rarely do. HD picture quality through Dish is not much better than SD with an over the air antenna.

SD is unwatchable on many of the sports channels. The picture is full of jaggies, moire and macroblocking, primarily during motion. Static camera shots are usually not bad. Other non sports programming has a lot of macroblocking, especially in dark scenes.

These issues are not our imagination. They are regularily reported on in the mainstream media.

This problem will only get worse as Dish adds more HD channels....

I agree with you 100% on your above comments! This isn't limited to just the SD or HD channels. It's both. Funny you mentioned since 2005. I absolutely agree. When we first got HD thru E* in Dec., 2004 the picture quality was fantastic, but over time the picture has become very soft. Discovery HD & TNT HD are so crappy looking now, it's like they are SD!!!

As you mentioned, it's with almost certainty that it's due bandwidth constraints! I'm absolutely disgusted now. I pay $10 per month for the original HD pack, and they don't look anything like they did when I first got them. HDNet used to look incredible, but now it's very soft looking as well!!!

I know it's a business, and E* is in the business of making money, but at what cost? Adding more programming...(especially stuff that people could care less about) simply for the sake of being able to tell consumers that they have the best value & more programming & more HD than the competitor is ridiculous! Especially at the expense of further picture quality degradation due to lack of bandwith and over compression.

They could literally get rid of more than half of their programming in an effort to reclaim bandwidth and focus on the staples of american household viewing.

IMHO, what E* should be focusing on is getting their customers are & in this order:

1. Network HD.
2. RSN-HD's
3. Specialty HD's...Discovery, HDnet, TNT, Food, etc.,
4. Vooms
5. HBO, Cinemax, etc.,
6. Followed by all the other crap!

 

[thedamaja]

What is Dish going to do in 2009 when all programming is to be in HD? Is the bandwidth there for all the programming they do?

All programing does not have to be in HD by 2009. Feb 17th 2009 is simply the date when OTA analog transmission will be shut down and replaced by digital.

This has zero effect on dish.

 

[kstuart]

IMHO, what E* should be focusing on is getting their customers are & in this order:

1. Network HD.
2. RSN-HD's
3. Specialty HD's...Discovery, HDnet, TNT, Food, etc.,
4. Vooms
5. HBO, Cinemax, etc.,
6. Followed by all the other crap!

The problem with this is that (outside of Voom, which I don't receive), my viewing hours is exactly opposite of this.

I (and my family) mainly watch "all the other crap" channels.
Our PQ priority is undoubtedly HBO, since "Rome", "Deadwood" and the other HBO series are far better than the network shows. Next comes Showtime, and in fact, "The Tudors" that starts in April looks promising, and "Penn & Teller" is about the only place on TV where you can find any truth about reality.
FoodTV is a pleasant contrast to the andrenaline-filled dramatic shows these days, with Alton Brown ("Good Eats") and Emeril as standouts.
I would guess that I never watch the sports channels that you watch, and that you never watch the sports channels that I watch (Fox Soccer Channel and GolTV).

So, "priority" depends on who you are talking to.

If ABC, CBS, NBC, and FOX went out of business today, I would be opening a bottle of champagne to celebrity the better world to come.

 

[Jimmy J]

The problem with this is that (outside of Voom, which I don't receive), my viewing hours is exactly opposite of this.

I (and my family) mainly watch "all the other crap" channels.
Our PQ priority is undoubtedly HBO, since "Rome", "Deadwood" and the other HBO series are far better than the network shows. Next comes Showtime, and in fact, "The Tudors" that starts in April looks promising, and "Penn & Teller" is about the only place on TV where you can find any truth about reality.
FoodTV is a pleasant contrast to the andrenaline-filled dramatic shows these days, with Alton Brown ("Good Eats") and Emeril as standouts.
I would guess that I never watch the sports channels that you watch, and that you never watch the sports channels that I watch (Fox Soccer Channel and GolTV).

So, "priority" depends on who you are talking to.

If ABC, CBS, NBC, and FOX went out of business today, I would be opening a bottle of champagne to celebrity the better world to come.

Well, we can certainly agree to disagree. But, the fact still remains that a vast majority of American households tend to do most their television viewing on Networks....ABC, CBS, NBC, & FOX. Feel free to rearrange the order of channels priorities I mentioned earlier, but the fact remains that the Networks should still be at the top of the list!!! This is where E* is failing their consumers HORRIBLY. Instead they focus on adding programming that in essence very FEW could care about, and chewing up valuable bandwidth in the process, versus adding the programming that very MANY care about.

The following is a link to Nielsen Media Research's ranking for Feb., '07. Sure it's a month old, but you get the idea. The numbers don't lie. Don't forget the Super Bowl & World Series Baseball....which networks are they on???

http://www.usatoday.com/life/television/nielsen-more.htm

 

[digiblur]

Do you guys watch the uplink reports? I've seen no changes in bitrates, resolutions, etc in the past couple of weeks. It's been kinda dead actually.

 

[skysurfer]

I think it's definitely DISH Network and lack of bandwidth that's the issue.

I had to get DISH Network for my ESPN since ESPN left c-band at the end of last year. ESPN has always looked awful on DISH Network (the markings on the court/field are artifacty).

It gets worse with the ESPN alternates. My local woman's NCAA tournament team's game was on an alternate channel. The channel was very soft, picture wise. I noticed the game was on ESPN2 for a few moments as part of a look-in and the picture on ESPN2 was a little better than the alternate feed.

I am hoping for more bandwidth from future satellites so maybe ESPN/ESPN2 can be given its proper setting. The studio shows are about the only things that look decent on ESPN/ESPN2. Every other channel I watch regularly (History, Discovery, TLC, E!, MTV, VH1) look pretty good all the time.

 

[fz5j2r]

Do you guys watch the uplink reports? I've seen no changes in bitrates, resolutions, etc in the past couple of weeks. It's been kinda dead actually.

digiblur,


Where does one find the uplink reports that show bitrates and resolutions?

Thanks in advance!


Jim

 

[pabeader]

I've noticed. The LIL's are so bad that I've stopped watching them all together. I do a little trick though. If I start to think the movie channels are looking bad, I flip over to a local for a few mins. Boy, do the movies look good after that!!!

 

[cummingsje]

I just recently switched from cable to E* and have noticed something interesting. The HD PQ on my Sony 46"(DVI/HDMI) RPTV via 622 is definitely "softer" than was cable's. However, on my Olevia 32" (HDMI) LCD via 211, the HD PQ seems much better than cable. Same setup with E* as was with cable. I've also adjusted picture settings on both to make sure.