PQ D!SH vs Netflix

[Jim5506]

Make sure the output on the HWS is set to 1080i or 720p, not 480i.

 

[olds403]

Yes, my HWS is set for 1080i, but thanks for mentioning that. I am not sure why mine seems soft either. I do know that my old 722 required no adjustment of the picture size/position, at its defaults the picture fit perfectly with little to no overscan.

When I got the Hopper with Sling I immediately noticed that the default picture size/position was way off from my old 722. There was a ton of overscan, enough that it cut of portions of the bottom and side of the station logos in the lower right corner of the screen. I had to shrink the picture significantly, and move it down a bit to get it centered with the screen pattern provided for adjustment (circles in the corners of screen).

I have no proof other than my own experience, but I believe that the additional image processing that must be done on this Hopper with Sling (maybe all, I have had 2 that do the same thing) is what is softening the picture. There seems to be no way to display the image pixel for pixel (like my old 722), in its defaults it is overscanning like crazy, and if adjusted there is additional image manipulation/processing done to get it to fit the screen.

 

[olds403]

I was thinking you had the Hopper3. Darbee can't do 4K. I went and checked to see if they had a new product (as I said, I loved mine until I upgraded to the Hopper3) but they seem stuck. As far as I can tell, they have no new products and their best licensee (oppo) has gone belly up.

I do not have UHD/4k capabilities at the moment. My plasma is 1080p, I have wanted to upgrade to a 4k 65" or larger OLED but the prices are not where I want quite yet, and after owning the last generation of plasma, only OLED will do due to black levels. I did get one of OPPO's last UHD bluray players before they left the market for future proofing but am unable to display 4k.

 

[TheKrell]

I am not positive but I think my H3's and J3's are overscanning too. Is there a pixel-for-pixel setting? And why is this not the default given modern TVs? I sure hope none of us are still using CRT TVs!

 

[olds403]

I am not positive but I think my H3's and J3's are overscanning too. Is there a pixel-for-pixel setting? And why is this not the default given modern TVs? I sure hope none of us are still using CRT TVs!

I have looked all over my HWS and cannot find a pixel for pixel setting. The default settings "should" provide that but the enormous amount of overscanning would prevent that. I was very surprised by the amount I had to adjust the picture to get all of it on the screen when I first got the HWS.

I was expecting great things when I read all the reviews of the Hopper receiver in various Home Theater magazines after having my 722 for 10 years, the picture quality on the 722 was amazing. After living with the HWS for a while I was kind of disappointed as it seemed soft to me, and nothing I adjusted on the Hopper made it any better. None of the settings on my TV changed when I switched from the 722 to the Hopper. I like Dish and will continue to subscribe, I may try to upgrade to a H3 soon and will see what that brings other than lots of tuners.

 

[HobbyTalk]

I verified the picture quality issue this weekend. I was over at my parent's house (they still have a 722k) and my dad was watching TCM on his panasonic plasma, and the picture was noticeably sharper than the same channel on my HWS on my Panasonic plasma.

Are both of your plasmas have the same exact settings, using the same HDMI inputs, the exact same models with the same firmware version, etc? No comparing if that isn't the case. I used to have a Panny Plasma and found the picture was better if I set the receiver to output 720p instead of 1080 due to the Panny display having some weird resolution like 1024x768. The tv would do a better job at upscaling 720 than downscaling 1080.

The only real way to compare is side-by-side, using the same display, our eyes and minds can play funny tricks on us when we want to believe something. Also, those TVs are old, plasma screens do wear out so hours of use can affect the picture. Just saying.

 

[olds403]

Both are high end (for the time), full 1080p displays, I set the picture setting on both TV's using Avia II as the test pattern source, so they are close but not identical. The sharpness settings were set using the same identical test pattern so I think they are close enough to display the differences between the two sources. It was a black and white movie on TCM so color was not a factor. It was a remarkable difference in detail and sharpness. And I would think the fact that I am using a Darbee device on mine would at least make them equal in sharpness, but mine with the Darbee and Hopper was not as sharp as his 722.

I believe it has something to do with the fact that there is so much overscan on my Hopper without additional manipulation/scaling of the image to get it to fit on the screen. I think the fact that I have to make significant changes to the image size to reduce overscan IS reducing the image quality. It is not scientific, but I can plainly see that the image is not as sharp as my old 722 or my dad's current 722k.

 

[HobbyTalk]

Both are high end (for the time), full 1080p displays.

Not sure what model you have but doesn't it have a setting to turn off overscan? Some higher end Pannies do.

 

[olds403]

Not sure what model you have but doesn't it have a setting to turn off overscan? Some higher end Pannies do.

I will check that, I have never looked for that setting as I never needed it with the 722. Mine is TC-P65VT60, one below the top ZT60, I don't recall my dad's model number but it was a THX certified set at the time. Thanks for the tip.

 

[HobbyTalk]

With the TX-P50VT50 in the Advanced Settings, there are selections for Intelligent Frame Creation (IFC), 24p Smooth Film, Clear Cinema, 3D Refresh Rate, 16:9 Overscan" is another that you can turn it off. You would need to disable ISFccc to see some of the options.

EDITED: Just found this for your model show an overscan setting

Panasonic TC-P65VT60 3D Plasma HDTV Settings

Unit-to-unit sample variations, the viewing environment, and the source might render these recommendations less than optimum. They are provided only as a potentially useful starting place. All the settings here are for controls found in the user menus. Those most likely to translate reliably...

www.soundandvision.com

 

[olds403]

With the TX-P50VT50 in the Advanced Settings, there are selections for Intelligent Frame Creation (IFC), 24p Smooth Film, Clear Cinema, 3D Refresh Rate, 16:9 Overscan" is another that you can turn it off. You would need to disable ISFccc to see some of the options.

EDITED: Just found this for your model show an overscan setting

Panasonic TC-P65VT60 3D Plasma HDTV Settings

Unit-to-unit sample variations, the viewing environment, and the source might render these recommendations less than optimum. They are provided only as a potentially useful starting place. All the settings here are for controls found in the user menus. Those most likely to translate reliably...

www.soundandvision.com

The overscan WAS IT! Thanks for the suggestion, I didn't even realize that was turned on, I have all other image modification features turned off, and it was several menus deep. As soon as I turned that off, and reset the picture size on the Hopper back to default, it was a night and day difference. I still think the 722 was a little sharper but it is definitely a LOT closer. Thanks again.

 

[HobbyTalk]

The overscan WAS IT! Thanks again.

Glad it worked! Found that info by Googling TX-P50VT50 overscan

 

[eddie willers]

The overscan WAS IT! Thanks for the suggestion, I didn't even realize that was turned on, I have all other image modification features turned off, and it was several menus deep. As soon as I turned that off, and reset the picture size on the Hopper back to default, it was a night and day difference. I still think the 722 was a little sharper but it is definitely a LOT closer. Thanks again.

I'm sure I speak for guys everywhere who go nuts when something is doing something it isn't supposed to be doing and the "aha!" moment is finally found.

Like opening the hood of your car and seeing a big On/Off button in the Off position.

I can rest easy now.

 

[joewhite57]

olds403: I have been on this board for a long time (actually since day 1) and mostly everyone else has posted the opposite of what you have said. Most people have experienced better picture quality with the Hopper compared to the older receivers (newer chip set).

I saw an improvement in PQ when I traded in my 722K for a HWS. I am not sure why you are seeing the opposite.

I saw a big improvement in pq on our 722 after cataract surgery. Then even better when we upgraded to an H3. Maybe eye surgery would help

 

[HobbyTalk]

olds403: I have been on this board for a long time (actually since day 1) and mostly everyone else has posted the opposite of what you have said. Most people have experienced better picture quality with the Hopper compared to the older receivers (newer chip set).

For me, when the Hopper first came out, the PQ was not the best. I did notice huge difference for the better when Dish did the UI update. You wouldn't think a change to the UI would make a difference but they must have thrown in other firmware tweeks with that update.

 

[Bobby]

For me, when the Hopper first came out, the PQ was not the best. I did notice huge difference for the better when Dish did the UI update. You wouldn't think a change to the UI would make a difference but they must have thrown in other firmware tweeks with that update.

The new UI wasn’t just an interface change. It was a completely new operating system from the ground up.