Quality Signal bar jumps from 0-62 %

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Bash2

SatelliteGuys Family
Original poster
Nov 26, 2008
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PA
I have setup my Motorized dish sg2100. I can I lock few sat like 91w , 61.5, 110, and 119 but the one I want is 97w galaxy 25 some how I cant seem to lock onto 97W I move the dish West 110 appears than I go back I got like 0-60% but the bars flashes back and forth from 0 to 60 and top right corner does not indicate which satellite i am looking at.

Here are my Settings:

SAT: galaxy 25
LNB Power: On
LNB Type: Standard
LNB Freq: 10750
22KHZ:eek:ff
TP Freq: 11836
Diseqc 1.0: port ( i am using Cheta Diseqc port one hooked to Circular and port two is hooked up Linear from there it goes into the motor from motor to the receiver)
Motor: USALS
Legacy SW: None

The type of LNBF i got is QPH-031 INVACOM with 4 ports 2 are circular and 2 are Linear.

Thank you for the help in Advance.




 
You have the right port# assigned to the G25 satellite? Linear I mean....what receiver are you using?
Try another transponder on G25, 12152H 20000SR
 
I have setup my Motorized dish sg2100. I can I lock few sat like 91w , 61.5, 110, and 119 but the one I want is 97w galaxy 25 some how I cant seem to lock onto 97W I move the dish West 110 appears than I go back I got like 0-60% but the bars flashes back and forth from 0 to 60 and top right corner does not indicate which satellite i am looking at.

Here are my Settings:

SAT: galaxy 25
LNB Power: On
LNB Type: Standard
LNB Freq: 10750
22KHZ:eek:ff
TP Freq: 11836
Diseqc 1.0: port ( i am using Cheta Diseqc port one hooked to Circular and port two is hooked up Linear from there it goes into the motor from motor to the receiver)
Motor: USALS
Legacy SW: None

The type of LNBF i got is QPH-031 INVACOM with 4 ports 2 are circular and 2 are Linear.

Thank you for the help in Advance.





You have the right port# assigned to the G25 satellite? Linear I mean....what receiver are you using?
Try another transponder on G25, 12152H 20000SR

That is a good TP, 11.836 V. Is your symbol rate correct? I am showing it as 20.770 MS/s. I have ten channels on this TP currently (I haven't rescanned in a while so there might be more). I read 90-92% quality for my location (Omaha Nebraska) and I am using a Winegard DS-2076 dish, an Invacom QPH-031 LNBF, a PowerTech DG-280 motor and a DN SW 21 switch.

If you have hardwired your linear output to port #2 on the DISeQc switch, do you have 97 W set to use port #2? If your dish is properly aligned, you should get this bird fairly easily.

You mentioned that you were getting many of the circular birds, that does not mean that your dish is aligned properly. Circular satellites are very lenient when it comes to dish alignment. You might be off just a little bit and the circulars will still come in, but the linear satellites will not.

Radar
 
Thanks for the Quick respond

-I have VS ultra
-Yes i have correct port on the menu and on switch linear on switch is lnb 2 and i selected port 2.
-Maybe I don't have yet set right.
-I been at it more than 8 hours today I think I need break.
 
Thanks for the Quick respond

-I have VS ultra
-Yes i have correct port on the menu and on switch linear on switch is lnb 2 and i selected port 2.
-Maybe I don't have yet set right.
-I been at it more than 8 hours today I think I need break.

Bash,

Yes, It is well after dark now. You should have detected a signal after that much time. You simply do not have your dish in proper alignment just yet. You must be somewhere in the ballpark if you are getting the circular satellites to come in. But, you have to be a little more accurate when it comes to the linear satellites.

It should not be very difficult if you are using the right information to start with. When you have been at it a while, you should be able to just point your finger in the sky and say "There it is"! No calculator, no compass, just your calibrated mind! Slap up the dish and you should have it!

You are not at that point just yet, but you will get there soon, I guarantee it!

I think you have your settings right, you are just not on target yet. If this is your first experience or close to that, you just need a little more patience and time.

Have you acquired your dish elevation and azimuth angles from FreeHostia angle calculator? It provides very accurate information. Google that out first. I recommend it highly.

Do you know your true coordinates (latitude and longitude)? That is important to know.

Is your mast for your dish perfectly level? This is rule #1, you cannot go beyond this step and expect any valid results unless you insure that the mast if perfectly vertical. I cannot stress this point enough! This is so critical that you may as well throw in the towel if you are not absolutely accurate from the start. All of your other angles and alignments depend upon this.

The next step should be to locate the satellite that is nearest to true south that you can get. Whatever your site longitude is, that is the position of your perfect true south satellite. If there is not a satellite at that precise location, don't worry too much about that. You just want to be as close as you are able. If the nearest satellite is five degrees off, that isn't so bad. It isn't good, and it will require you to do some extra work. The closer you can get to a true south satellite, the less work it will mean for you. Just keep in mind that this is not always possible and that is ok, it won't mean that you are totally out of luck, only that you will be required to do a little extra work.

Once you get that satellite dialed in fairly well, then you may start calibrating the motor alignment for your best results.

Calibrating any instrument requires several points of known signal to start with. Something in the middle, something on one end and something on the opposite end.

You already have the signal in the middle, that is your true south sat. The next step is to locate the furthest east most sat and the furthest west most sat that you can detect a signal from to start off on.

If you drive your dish to the furthest east sat and adjust the elevation, then drive the dish to the furthest west sat and adjust the azimuth and then go back and forth between these two sats until you cannot improve the signal any further, that will be the esence of calibrating your motor position.

In order to fine tune the system, you would then pick another satellite further to the east and one further to the west and repeat the process.

If you continue this procedure, you will eventually have the entire arc calibrated.

It sounds labor intensive, but it isn't as bad as you might think and the results are excellent. Hope that you will give it a shot and let me know if it works for you.

Radar
 
AcWxRadar,

Thanks for all of your input

Here is my settings

Your Location Satellite Data Dish Setup Data
Latitude: 40.3159°
Longitude: -76.0126°
Name: Moteck SG2100​
Distance: 37532km
Motor Latitude: 40.3°
Declination Angle: 6.3° How do I use this or no need it?
Dish Elevation: 24°
Elevation: 43.4°
Azimuth (true): 180.0°
Azimuth (magn.): 191.9°

I am told like different settings

My motor elevation should be 40.3 ?
Dish Elevation: 24° or different number?
Elevation: 43.4° What elevation is this?
and my true south is 191.9 or 180?

These are inputted into the USAL receiver menu
Latitude: 40.3159° N
Longitude: -76.0126° W


Like to know what should be the right data?

Also ,what is the closes and strongest Satellite i should be aiming at that is near my TRUE SOUTH so that i can calibrate my motor?
 
AcWxRadar,

Thanks for all of your input

Here is my settings

Your Location Satellite Data Dish Setup Data
Latitude: 40.3159°
Longitude: -76.0126°
Name: Moteck SG2100​
Distance: 37532km
Motor Latitude: 40.3°
Declination Angle: 6.3°
Dish Elevation: 24°
Elevation: 43.4°
Azimuth (true): 180.0°
Azimuth (magn.): 191.9°

I am told like different settings

My motor elevation should be 40.3 ?
Dish Elevation: 24° or different number?
Elevation: 43.4° What elevation is this?
and my true south is 191.9 or 180?
Declination Angle: 6.3° Do I need this or how I use it?

These are inputted into the USAL receiver menu
Latitude: 40.3159° N
Longitude: -76.0126° W

Like to know what should be the right data?

Also ,what is the closes and strongest Satellite i should be aiming at that is near my TRUE SOUTH so that i can calibrate my motor?

Sorry about double post Didnt add Declination Angle
 
Latitude: 40.3159° 41.3 North
Longitude: -76.0126° 76.0 West
Motor Latitude: 40.3° Same as Your Latitude
Dish Elevation: 24°
Azimuth (magn.): 191.9° Using a compass

Only use the Latitude Scale on the Motor, do not use the Elevation Scale, set it and forget it.
Triple check the Pole is Plumb with the Dish and Motor on it
For your True South Sat, I would use 74 west, and find the "ONN" Channel
Double check the LNB and Switch settings in the Receiver's setup menu, I would even remove the switch and connect directly to the "L" Port on the LNB.
 
Bash,

I Noticed that you used the DishPointer angle calculator program to determine your settings. That is probably just fine, but I personally use FreeHostia.

I believe that they are both accurate. Although FreeHostia does not provide you with the Google Map image, and that is really not necessary. I used something similar when I laid out my installation site (I used Google Earth) to plot my E-S-W-N directions on a satellite image of my location, but I used Google Earth directly and not Google Maps. This provided me with a much better idea of what I needed to do to align my dish as I was able to "see" landmarks that were truly realistic.

I picked out three or four locations in my yard to install the dish. Spots that would be feasible for running the cable (not too far away from the house) and I printed a Google Earth image with each of these selected locations at the center.

Then I used a protractor to draw out the line-of-sight angles for each of the satellites that I was interested in with each individual spot as the center point.

This provided me with a few nice amenities. Mainly that I could look at landmarks to aim the dish towards without using a compass. I cannot use a compass here as there is too much magnetic interference from iron deposits or something in the ground that throws my compass off. It also provided me with landmarks that I needed to steer away from, like a barn or a tall tree, that would occlude my signal.

I thought I would discuss the above information with you so that you had some additional information to work upon, or at least another idea to use.

If you are certain of your North Latitude (40.32) and your West Longitude (76.01), then your settings on the dish and motor will be as follows:

Dish Elevation: 23.7 degrees
Motor Latitude: 40.3 degrees.
Azimuth: 76 degrees*

Do not worry about the declination angle. That is already figured into the calculation for you if you use FreeHostia angle calculator. I think it will also be covered with DishPointer as well, I am pretty certain of it (it is built-in to the equation so that you do not have to calculate it yourself).

Obviously, it is going to be difficult to set your dish elevation or motor latitude to the precise tenth of a degree to match the results from either calculation. You just have to estimate where you are setting these angles, as close as you can, and fine tune them later.

Please keep in mind that I see many people make the error of reading the dish elevation or motor latitude setting incorrectly. The dish or the motor may not be well marked and you may not know what "pointer" to use to align to the imprinted degree scale. There should be an edge of a movable plate that can be seen through the cutout window for the scale. The leading edge of this plate is usually painted red or black or maybe white, but sometimes it is just the same color as the rest of the dish or motor assembly.

Using a leading or trailing edge or the center of any mounting bolt would be incorrect. Make sure you are referencing the edge of that metal plate behind the scale window.

If you set the dish elevation just a tick under 24 degrees (23.7) and your motor latitude just a tick over 40 degrees (40.3) , you should be pretty close. Then all you need to adjust is the azimuth (the rotation of the entire motor on the mast).

The azimuth position must match the azimuth of your true south satellite. You are at 76 degrees Longitude, so your true south satellite would be at 76 degrees. Since there is no satellite at precisely 76 degrees, you will have to use a satellite which is fairly close to this. 74W Horizons 2 is a good choice.

On 74W, there is the ONN (Ohio News Network) channel that is a strong signal and it is "in-the-clear". Transponder 11.734 GHz, Polarity Horizontal, Symbol Rate 6.616 MS/s, (VPID 0033, APID 0034, PPID 8190).

This satellite, although it is not your true south satellite, would be the one that I would use. You will have to do some more work, just a little, to fine tune your dish and motor to the arc. You probably would have to do this even if you did have a sat that was perfectly due south of you. The reason for this is that you cannot truly read the dish and motor scales with that much accuracy. Is it 43.6 deg or 43.8 deg? Basically, you just have to put it in the ballpark and fine adjust it later to peak the signal strength (quality).

Lak7 also mentioned sat 74W and the ONN channel and he reiterated my point about having your mast set perfectly plumb (level/vertical). So, You and I both must thank him for confirming and stressing that specific instruction.

I noticed that you questioned each angle, which one from the on-line calculator applied to what. If it says motor elevation, consider that as the motor latitude setting, ignore the scale on the opposite side of the motor that is labeled elevation. If you wish to know why it is there, even though we don't use it, I can explain it partially. If your site latitude is 40.3 deg, you should set your motor to 40.3 degrees on the latitude scale. Would you like to double check this? Subtract 40.3 from 90 deg = 49.7 deg. The elevation scale on the opposite side of the motor should read 49.7 deg when the latitude scale reads 40.3 degrees. Therefore, the two scales are inverse of eachother and always add up to 90 degrees total.

I don't know the history of this, but there must have been a reason for its necessity at some time. But, at least you can see the correlation between both scales now.

90 - LAT = ELEV,
ELEV + LAT = 90,
90- ELEV = LAT


As for the Dish elevation, it is simply the only angle on the dish that you can adjust, so that is basically obvious. No need to discuss that.

I hope that I have provided you with some explaination regarding your motor + dish setup here. I think it makes it easier to believe in what you are doing, if you at least know some of the math and the history behind it all. At least then a person has more insight into what is going on, and why.

Radar
 
Last edited:
Thank you guys for all the tips and tricks.

After I used leveler my sat pole which the motor and dish sitting on is off.

I checked the plumb before I installed dish and than after the motor was installed. When i stalled dish somehow the plumb was off but I forgot about this process. After like 16 hours of labor I to try too tune to 97W i still have same blinking problem. What I did was to checked the pole with leveler BOOM it was not perfectly Plumb. That might been my problem all along

I used tripod that is resting on wooden pallet but because of the pallet not being sturdy it throws my setting off. I have no problem gettign Quailty with stronger Sat like 61.5 , 110 , 119 etc.

Here is my situation:

I rent where i reside so I cant attach anything to the side or top of the building. My neighbors have proffessional dishes stalled where they have pole dug into the ground also they also dont have motorized dish in any of the set ups.

I am not sure how go about this procaudures which might be my ONLY choice.

IS there a guidline or video about how to install pole into the ground that wouldnt get me into trouble with landlord. I am open to other options cant seem to use the pallet with tripod.
 
What LNB info do you have entered in the Receiver's Setup menu for 97west
You Must have an Acvtive / Live TP selected in the setup menu for the Q Meter to light up.
What TP do you have selected?
 
[FONT=&quot]i got signal but its like jumpy quality or flashing goes from 0-40%
[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]I used the following [/FONT]TPs:
[FONT=&quot]12177 V 23000 or 12152 H 20000 as was posted by ICE in this forum

the LNBF is [/FONT] Invacom QPH-031 and i tried both Linear output with and without DiSeq switch.
 
[FONT=&quot]i got signal but its like jumpy quality or flashing goes from 0-40%
[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]I used the following [/FONT]TPs:
[FONT=&quot]12177 V 23000 or 12152 H 20000 as was posted by ICE in this forum

the LNBF is [/FONT] Invacom QPH-031 and i tried both Linear output with and without DiSeq switch.


As I am posting this I a just found this by ICEBERG


If you do the 2 LNB theory, the setup for each one would be
DBS Lo frequency would be 11250 and DiSEqC would be port 2 (as an example)
The KU band you can do it 2 different ways. Port 1 for sure : )
You can set it for Universal 1 and the settings would be right. But since we really don’t use the LO band (sans PAS9), for scanning quickness, have it as Standard and change LO to 10600 and turn 22K on. The LNB will ALWAYS be on high band. The only one I use Universal for is Pas9 (since its low band)

http://www.satelliteguys.us/free-air-fta-discussion/34456-invacom-lnbf-question-s.html

I had selected in receiver: standard, 10750, 22k off and port 1 so my setting was wrong for this type of LNBF?
 
The Invacom QPH-031 (quad) is a standard, not universal, LNBF.

Linear (L) side 'SINGLE' or 'STANDARD', L.O. 10750
Circular (C) side 'SINGLE' or 'STANDARD', L.O. 11250
 
Thank you guys for all the tips and tricks.

After I used leveler my sat pole which the motor and dish sitting on is off.

I checked the plumb before I installed dish and than after the motor was installed. When i stalled dish somehow the plumb was off but I forgot about this process. After like 16 hours of labor I to try too tune to 97W i still have same blinking problem. What I did was to checked the pole with leveler BOOM it was not perfectly Plumb. That might been my problem all along

I used tripod that is resting on wooden pallet but because of the pallet not being sturdy it throws my setting off. I have no problem gettign Quailty with stronger Sat like 61.5 , 110 , 119 etc.

Here is my situation:

I rent where i reside so I cant attach anything to the side or top of the building. My neighbors have proffessional dishes stalled where they have pole dug into the ground also they also dont have motorized dish in any of the set ups.

I am not sure how go about this procaudures which might be my ONLY choice.

IS there a guidline or video about how to install pole into the ground that wouldnt get me into trouble with landlord. I am open to other options cant seem to use the pallet with tripod.

Bash,

Installing a pole or mast in the ground and anchoring it with concrete is the best method. I would recommend this method over any other.

It is very easy, a lot easier then mounting it on the roof or on the siding. It also makes it easier to work on the dish and motor and perform your alignments or if you have to de-ice the dish or remove snow. No ladders required and no icy roofs to slip off of!

You will have to discuss this with your landlord, of course. With some labor, you can dig it up and remove it if the landlord requires you to do so at some later date. So you can tell the landlord that it can be removed if absolutely necessary.

Basically, you dig a hole roughly 10"-12" in diameter and about 36" deep. If you are in an extreme cold climate location, you might want to dig deeper. You want the bottom of the hole, where you will set the concrete, to be below the frost line, otherwise when the ground freezes and thaws, it will cause "heaving" and actually move the mast and throw your plumb off. You understand how critical this is.

You will want a 4 - 5 foot section of galvanized 1 1/4" water pipe, a 24" to 36" section of pipe, two 3" x 1 1/4" nipple pipes a 1 1/4" coupling a 1 1/4" Tee and a 1 1/4" pipe cap. Connect all the pieces together, with the Tee at the bottom and the two nipple pipes facing outwards (perpendicular to the vertical pipe and set in line with north/south). The 24"-36" pipe installs directly above the Tee, then the coupling and then the 4 - 5 ft pipe above that and the pipe cap on top of the 4 - 5 ft section. The pipe cap is to keep rain water out of the mast pipe.

You can adjust the lengths of the pipe sections depending upon how deep you dig the hole and how high you want the dish to be above ground. A good rule of thumb is that the top of the pipe should be about eye level for you. That usually provides a good working level. You won't need a step stool or ladder and you won't need to crouch down to work on the dish or motor. Just a good ergonomic design.

Set the pipe in the hole with the Tee at the bottom, back fill the hole with concrete (one 60 lb bag of concrete should be enough, maybe a 1/2 bag more). Check the plumb of the pipe and ensure that it is level all around, east/west and north/south.

You might want to use some straps or cables or boards to support the pipe so that it remains perfectly level while the concrete sets up. Keep checking the level frequently to make sure it does not move on you and be EXTREMELY picky about the level! You want it to be absolutely perfect!

When the concrete has set pretty well (after about 6 or 8 hours), backfill the hole with dirt and tamp it in good. Keep checking the level of the pipe as you go. Make sure that the dirt tapers up to the pipe so that water drains away from it. In 24 hours you can remove the supports and you should be ready to attach the motor and dish to the pipe and start aligning it.

If you think that you may ever have to remove the mast, you can omit the concrete to make the removal process easier, but you will need to modify the piping at the bottom. You will want two Tees with longer nipple pipes (6"-8") extending outwards. One Tee at the bottom and one 12" above that with the nipple pipe attached to it at a right angle to the ones below. The nipple pipes at the bottom should be set in line with the north/south axis. Then you will want to really tamp the dirt in good! A little bit of water may help, but not too much. Make sure you keep checking your level during the tamping process.

Remember, the dish is going to be subjected to the wind and the mast must be well anchored to prevent it from moving. A lot of force is going to be present on the mast when the wind blows against the dish.

Next, you will want to trench your cable in from the mast over to the house. That's not too difficult, but make sure that you ground the system properly at the point where the cable enters the house.

Use an RG-6 grounding terminal block and 8 gauge solid copper wire attached from the grounding block to a grounding rod. The grounding rod should be something like 5/8" X 8 foot and hammered into the ground right next to the house. If you are fortunate enough, you might be able to route your cable entry near the telephone service line or the electrical service line and use the grounding rod that is already in place there.

This grounding is required by law. It is not for the operation or protection of your satellite equipment as much as it is for the protection of your home. About two years back, I saw a neighbors house burn completely to the ground because of a lightning strike. There was nothing left at all! Make sure that you research the electrical code for your area to ensure that you do this according to local code.

For a very temporary fix to your setup, without all the digging and trenching and what not, you can try another avenue. I don't really recommend it, but a lot of people have this as their only option. Basically the same principle as what I have already stated, but instead of digging it into the ground, you plant the pipe in a 6 gallon plastic bucket and fill the bucket with concrete. This will be much better than your pallet, but not anywhere near as reliable as planting it in the ground.

I hope you find this information useful to you.

Radar
 
In my experience, a 5 gallon bucket with 60+ lbs of concrete is great for a 20" dish.
But for a 36", much less a motor, it's just not stable.
I suppose you could dig a hole and drop the bucket of cement into it for more stability, or if you think that makes it easier to remove...?
 
In my experience, a 5 gallon bucket with 60+ lbs of concrete is great for a 20" dish.
But for a 36", much less a motor, it's just not stable.
I suppose you could dig a hole and drop the bucket of cement into it for more stability, or if you think that makes it easier to remove...?

Anole,

I think you are in agreement with me that a bucket of concrete is not the best idea in this case. I was hesitant to mention it, but I thought that I would offer the suggestion to Bash in case his landlord is against setting the pole in the yard with concrete. If he cannot convince his landlord that this is acceptable, at least he can fall back on this option.

I have never tried the bucket gag personally, but a lot of folks have, and like you mentioned, they are usually using it for a small fixed point dish, not a 30 inch or larger motorized dish.

I advise against it, but if that is the only option available, it would at least be more stable than a tripod on a pallet. It will have more weight to stabilize it. And, like you mentioned, if you just dug a small hole in the ground to stabilize the bucket, that would be even better.

Radar
 
[FONT="]12177 V 23000 or 12152 H 20000 as was posted by ICE in this forum[/FONT]
Those are good.
Then when it's bouncing like you said, just put pressure on the Dish - Up, Down, Left, Right.
Any improvements.
 
I had my motorized dish set up for a couple of months on a heavy oak pallet (about 70-80 lbs) with a tripod screwed down to the pallet. I had to shim under the pallet with scrap wood to get the pallet close to level and to make sure it wouldn't wobble. Once the pallet was close to level and solid (I checked by stepping on all the corners to make sure it didn't rock) I plumbed the pole on the top of the tripod and installed the motor and dish. It worked good for the 2 months it was set up like that, following the arc accurately the entire time.
 
more bucket stories:

I've seen people put a 5 gal bucket on an apartment balcony.
They generally rope/tie/chain it to the railing, or wedge it into a corner.
The wind-break of the building -may- help.
Both these things make for good 20" stability, and would probably keep a 36" from tumbling over.

Standing free in my back yard, 10' away from the house, I've had 36" blow over even though it may stand for a year or more.
Putting it closer to the house, might help.

And the one obvious thing I never tried: Put the dish down about a foot above the bucket!
Mine were at chest height! :(

All bets are off is you motorize, though. - :eek:
Heck, I even had trouble just hangin' a C-band LNB on one! :)
 
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