Except for OTA, where are you seeing better HD than from E*? It is not from D* since I have it too. Very few issues here with HD signal issues at least in the Indianapolis area. I do miss the original VOOM HD, but overall still very pleased on all my sets, even the 65" one, with HD PQ from DISH. May be able to try out the AT&T HD product in the next year. Why not? I want the most and best HD (presently have 37 HD channels) and the best provider should get my business. Shouldn't really have D* now except already have bought the DVR's and do use them as a back up. Next year about this time hope to be back to one provider.
Question about HD or HD lite on Dish
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If you have 20/12 vision (at 20' you see what most see at 12')
would make, ideal viewing distance 11.14' for 1080i on a 47" TV. Add a
couple feet if your viewing on a 720P TV (IMHO).
1920x1080i MPEG4 Channels are converted to 1440x1080i won't make much
to most because there watchng on a 720P set anyway.
If your noticing 100 flaws per hour, how can you enjoy a movie.
I sit 9.5' from a 60xbr1 and dish HD looks 'pretty good to great' to me most of the time.
http://www.satelliteguys.us/bfg/dish-hd.htm
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da Bomb
I just figure the Bomb is one of those ppl that is so hard to please that he gripe if some one gave him a free HDTV because the color of the frame on the set was wrong.
I just figure the Bomb is one of those ppl that is so hard to please that he gripe if some one gave him a free HDTV because the color of the frame on the set was wrong.
I don't know about being hard to please. Have you seen how bad the basketball games have been on ESPN lately? The floor looks like it is moving from all the pixelation when the camera is panning. There is also a lot of pixelation around the players. I've seen this on ESPN college and pro games as well as on TNT NBA games. The pixelation wasn't there last year.
I would be happy to be viewing a telecined, 1920x1080, 14.25Mbps HBO. But for those of us not getting it from 148, we tend to get around 11Mbps. This isn't bad, as it is still one of E*'s better HD channels. But there are times when the compression is worse than others.
While 61.5 provides a much stronger, more stable signal than 129, I think the worst PQ combo for HD is 61.5/110/119.
While 61.5 provides a much stronger, more stable signal than 129, I think the worst PQ combo for HD is 61.5/110/119.
How I long for the old days and VOOM! when the only thing we could find to bitch about was 'skeeter' noise on one channel!!! 
No, no, no.
The typical recommendation for an HDTV set, to experience a "full" HD experience, is to sit around 1.6X the diagonal. Some say 2X but most consider this to be on the high side.
So for my 47" set the distance would be around 6'4". For a 60" set, it would be 8'.
This is for a 30 degree viewing angle.
The THX people believe it should be even closer. They recommend closer to 1.3X for a theater experience.
For a more casual, less involved experience, move it out to 2X - 2.5X.
At 8.5' from a 47", I'm out in the casual range, sitting at 2.2X. No way should I increase this. If anything, I should move closer.
My sharper vision would not change my recommended viewing distance as it doesn't magnify the image, only render it sharper. I.e. I'll see more fine detail but it won't be any larger.
For SD, it was 2.5X - 3X. Sit far enough away to not be able to resolve the scan lines (at least for people with 20/20 vision - I can see SD scan lines on a 32" set from about 14' away).
I envy those who are insensitive to significant video degradation.
At least I envy them as it pertains to subing to DishHD.
TNT's broadcasts were horrendous in this regard last year. But ESPN was sometimes okay, it varied from game to game.
These are amongst the most obvioius shortcomings. People who don't pick up on the lower resolution or contouring on low contrast or macro-blocking on strong colors will pick up on the blocking during camera pans.
These people who can't see the problems aren't a surprise to me. My wife doesn't see them. There can be a movie scene in a low contrast shot that continues for a full minute with constant contouring and macro-blocking all over the background behind two people talking to each other and she won't notice it at all. She's focused on the dialog and faces. Completely obvilious to the PQ degradation.
I wish I could "dial down" the PQ through a computer as she watched a show that really interested her. I think I could degrade the image quite a bit before she noticed.
No.
Neither has good quality HD. With D*'s being worse than E*'s.
You might like the steaks served at Bonanza or Ponderosa, but they aren't everything a steak can be.
Neither has good quality HD. With D*'s being worse than E*'s.
You might like the steaks served at Bonanza or Ponderosa, but they aren't everything a steak can be.
There is OTA, as you mention.
There is cable, which is better much of the time.
There are HD DVDs.
There are Blu-Ray DVDs.
There is pre-recorded D-VHS.
As far as I've seen the worst HD out there are the lower-quality channels from D* and E*, such as E*'s StarzHD.
Arguably, several "HD" channels from D* and E* don't even qualify as true HD channels. Many believe that E* now markets these channels as "DishHD" in order to not be subject to industry HD standards.
When one can measure a DishHD channel and find that it is 1280x1080i @ 9 to 10Mbps, it is kinda pointless to have an argument about whether it is a high quality HD channel.
To begin with, HBO SELDOM has transfers that are 14.25 Bitrate. Even on 148W, if you get 11Mbps, that is normal.
I should point out that Star Wars Ep 03 - Sith - was only around 9.15Mbps even on the C Band Distribution from HBO and no one complained.
On the other hand, The Island was upwards of 13.70Mbps and looked horrible even on C Band.
It's not always the bitrate that makes the difference.
Just because HDNET was a constant 17.57Mbps, you really think all those transfers were really 17.57Mbps on the Video Side?
Simply looking at them would have told you that wasn't the case.
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How I long for the old days and VOOM! when the only thing we could find to bitch about was 'skeeter' noise on one channel!!!
Yes, Voom, with the 30k subs talking about how great it was - when it was actually the first HDLITE, so D* and E* said if it looks that great, we can do it too!
Of course the picture can only be as good as the original source. Transmitting crap at 17Mbps will still yield crap.
But at least you will get as good a picture as you can. It isn't being degraded during the transmission. I would never complain about E* if everything were showing up on my set as it was when delivered to E*.
But at least you will get as good a picture as you can. It isn't being degraded during the transmission. I would never complain about E* if everything were showing up on my set as it was when delivered to E*.
As I understand it, VOOM was HD-lite, but that it has been lightened even more by E*. VOOMers have stated that at the end, the channels were being transmitted at 1440x1080. E* has lowered this to 1280x1080. I'm of the opinion that is a significant reduction, as 1440x1080 is the native resolution of many HD programs.
A few of the VOOM channels were shown in full 1920x1080 by E* for several months, but then were down-rezzed a year ago.
A few of the VOOM channels were shown in full 1920x1080 by E* for several months, but then were down-rezzed a year ago.
I for one have noticed a lot more fuzziness to the HD on E* and with the SD channels too, however, in society now, what can we do about it? Nothing. Yeah, you can go elsewhere, but your options are limited. To me, my 4dtv C-band is the best (and regardless of its future, always will be the best), cable is horrible, E* is about half ok, and my StarChoice is almost as good as C-band!--and D*--what a joke! So honestly, I got all of this and I am still not happy, so I can imagine how most of you with just Dish feels. I am one who hopes it gets better, I hate to see what happens when everything has to change over to digital/HD. But then again, it gives us all something to talk about!
I say get rid of most of them international channels on E* and open up more space for true HD. No offense to the international subscribers. Hell before you know it, it will take a dish with about 9 lnb's just to get all the channels you want...and it will still look horrible.
Ok, I'm done.
I say get rid of most of them international channels on E* and open up more space for true HD. No offense to the international subscribers. Hell before you know it, it will take a dish with about 9 lnb's just to get all the channels you want...and it will still look horrible.
Ok, I'm done.
I don't know what you are comparing SC to on C Band, but considering some of the bitrates I see coming off SC - you've fallen for something hook, line and sinker. D* overall has better bitrates than SC - not to mention there very old Motorola Encoders.
