Question on SD vs HD and locals vs. nationals

denisincalif

SatelliteGuys Pro
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Pub Member / Supporter
Oct 1, 2007
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Arcadia, CA
I am confused about how Dish relays programming to us and how they label stations (in the guide) as HD or not. I would appreciate a short tutorial or being pointed to a web site that clearly explains all this stuff. As you can see below, I have a whole lot of questions.

For local stations, I thought Dish just relays the station's signal to us. For channels not available from Dish in HD, I thought that just meant they are relaying (after digitization) the station's analog signal, and for the so-called HD channels they relay the digital signal, perhaps compressed. If that is true, then after the digital conversion is complete all local stations obtained via Dish will be HD (using Dish's terminology---I know that just being digital doesn't make a show HD). So if, as an example, my local station KCAL-9 broadcasts news in HD, won't everybody who has an HDTV see it in HD, whether they are getting it OTA or via Dish or any other provider? Shouldn't Dish's distinction between HD locals and non-HD locals disappear?

What does the Dish receiver do? Only the VIP series has HD capability. So, through some sort of magic, even after the transition people with SD-only receivers will not see HD shows in HD on locals they get from Dish, even if they have an HDTV? How does that work? (I admit, people with HDTV's who subscribe to Dish but use an old SD-only receiver are probably few and far between.)

Another possibility---if my understanding is right, might many locals go dark on Dish because Dish doesn't have enough equipment in each city to handle all small stations as digital?

Meanwhile, what happens for the national channels such as ESPN, CNN, etc.? Do the ones which have HD capability actually send Dish two feeds, one for HD and one standard? That would seem to increase costs for them. Or is Dish splitting the signal and then doing some sort of conversion?

It seems to me that the desire for backwards compatibility is creating an ungodly mess. The distinction between service with HD and service without HD needs to disappear, and I am wondering what are the technical hurdles delaying this?
 
Plenty of info is available, do a search under "How do satellites work". You should read them as you do have many misconceptions in your questions.
I sure haven't been able to find it. I have searched for hours and gone to dozens of web sites. They all describe satellite TV at a childish level. They explain geosynchronous satellites. They say that the networks provide programming material to the satellite TV companies' broadcast centers, which send the signals to the satellites which send it back down where our dishes can pick up the signal. All that is obvious, but none of it is relevant to my questions.

I am asking for much more detail. Exactly what do the national networks send to the broadcast centers? For example, for a show that is available in HD, exactly what gets sent to the broadcast center, since many people will be watching it in SD as well? How are the signals sent to the broadcast centers (what is the path)? Are analog broadcasts from locals sent as NTSC or somehow converted by the provider? Surely Dish and DirectTV don't capture the thousands of local broadcasters off the air! For both nationals and local broadcast stations, how many feeds are there per network/station and how are they encoded? How do analog, SD digital, and HD digital programs differ in their processing at the ultimate source (the national network or the local broadcast station). How do these same signals differ in the processing done at the broadcast center, if at all?

All this would be simpler if the networks and stations provided the satellite broadcast center with a single ATSC feed which contains both an HD subchannel and an SD subchannel with the same program. Is that how it works? Local stations rarely do this with their broadcast signal, since they are sending two beams out anyway on two separate channels (one analog, one digital). And if that is how it works, where do Dish and DirectTV get off providing locals in SD-only when the locals are broadcasting HD over the air?

I remain confused, because it seems to me that either national network feeds and local station shows have to be handled in fundamentally different ways, or local broadcast stations have to provide the satellite companies with a completely different signal from what they broadcast to the public. It seems to me there is still a chance that the end of analog broadcasting will break something in the satellite companies' delivery systems for local channels. Since I am confident they are fully prepared for this, I would like to understand how they are avoiding this problem.

It would really help if someone could provide a specific URL that covers these topics in enough detail to answer these questions.
 
Surely Dish and DirectTV don't capture the thousands of local broadcasters off the air

Yes, they really do capture the them off the air.

Your curiosity is appreciated, but the answers would fill several pages. There is a database of knowledge that is often posted here as a link. I forget the name. Something like EKB.
 
As for the locals, Dish and Direct have both been working for at least the last year to convert their uplink sources to the digital signals from local stations. In many cases the do take the HD signal and down-convert it to SD for SD feeds and if the HD feed is carried, they pass that through. The SD and HD signal are sent to receivers on different channels.

National channels usually microwave or use fiber to transmit signal to Dish and most provide two seperate signals, one HD and one SD.
 

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