Real problems with Cinco De Mayo install

[ericpd]

Oh man am I having some problems with my recent D* installation. Would appreciate any and all feedback before I show my ignorance over the phone.

On May 5, I switched from DishNetwork (almost sorry I did now) to DirecTV. With Dish, I had three DVR at three different locations (942 in Family Room, 625 in Master Bedroom, and an 525 in the basement Family Room). With DirecTV I only got two DVRs (HR20-100 & HR15-300). They put a new 5LNB Slim Line dish on the same roof mount that supported the E* dish and took down the old Voom dish. They used the old Voom mount to reconnect my OTA (another horror story). The installer said that no additional wires were needed since the locations were already setup for DVR (multi-tuner) duty. He told me that the current multi-switch from E* could not be used but my installation would include a new one.

At the end of the install, the installer fired up all the connected TV's and the pictures looked great. He did not however test the recording functions and features of the two D* DVR receivers,... abd maybe because of the excitement, I did not ask to be shown those features. I guess I felt I'd have no problem figuring it out,... how difficult would it be get used to any differences between the D* and E* DVRs? I signed and he left.

Once I began experimenting with the HR20-100, it didn't take long to realize that something was wrong. I could not record a program and watch another. Each time I tried changing channels while something was recording, I got a error message say I would have to stop the recording before moving to another channel. I call tech support and it took them but a minute to figure out that the 2nd tuner was not being fed on the HR20-100. They asked me some other questions and stated that I may have a faulty receiver as well. They asked if I was having the same problem with the HR15, so I moved to that location and sure enough, the same thing. On the HR20, the installer had a small thin plastic gray box connected to the Tuner 2 input on the back, but nothing connected to the plastic box. On the HR15, there was something connected to the Tuner 2 input, but the other end of THAT cable was still attached to E* multi-switch amplifier,... not to anything coming from the dish or D*'s multi-switch.

The tech support people declared the install 'incomplete' and and arranged for a follow up visit to complete the installation. That tech just left,... and what he told me nearly floored me.

The first installer DID NOT install a multi-switch as he said he did. He re-assigned the coax coming from my OTA to some other purpose, and combined the OTA signal with the sat signal requiring a diplexer at the HR20 (this maybe why I've lost half of my OTA HD channels), and according to the 2nd installer, made a complete mess of things, particularly where all the cable enters the home. Also, according to the 2nd installer, it will cost me well over an additional $100 to do the install properly!

I am about to call E* and have my service restored if there is no resolution insight. I've already paid out a total of $300 for the receivers and do not fancy pulling another $100 bucks out of my wallet. I simple can not believe the D* DVRs cannot utilize the setup that worked quite fine for the E* DVRs! And the deceipt over the multi-switch and the obvious laziness of the 1st installer is really hard to swallow.

Any comments appreciated.

 

[user92626]

go to ebay and buy a 6x8 switch for 30 bucks, and it should solve all your problems.

The only hard part is running the coaxs but it's already done for you.

 

[Newshawk]

You should not have to pay anything to have that botched install corrected. Call D* and tell them you want the install done right as it should have been done in the first place and that you want to lodge a complaint against the original installer for not doing it right and the second one for trying to charge you for correcting the first installer's mistakes. Be polite but insistent... it will get you much further than being rude or angry.

 

[Jhon69]

I agree.If you wanted the installer to use the same coax that's one thing.If the installer wanted to that's another(he was looking for the quick way out).When the installer said it was done he should have given you a sheet of paper.That paper should have the information about your install plus it should have the company's phone # that he works for.You should call D* and tell them and you can also call the company that he works for and complain.

I feel when you have a new install it should include coax and everything else new.
To let an installer get away with that makes him think he can always use the old stuff.They tried that crap on me.I sent the first installer down the road.The second did the job right and I praised him and tipped him.You've always got to be on guard there is always someone out there wanting to stick it to you and unfortunately it's a direct reflection on the company he represents.Good Luck!

P.S. you should not have to pay anything the company that he works for is going to have to eat it he screwed it up!.!protest

 

[ericpd]

go to ebay and buy a 6x8 switch for 30 bucks, and it should solve all your problems.

The only hard part is running the coaxs but it's already done for you.

I'm not going to Ebay to buy anything,... much less a multi-switch that the 1st installer recorded as installed and the 2nd installer declared wasn't anywhere to be found. Thanks for you response anyway!!

Jhon69 & Newshawk,... I hear ya! I did call D* and they had already escalated my ticket. They told me I would be receiving a call from the installer (Company) within the hour,... and I did. The charge is for a custom install. It seems as though a proper install requires fishing a coax through the wall. I told them that I already had sufficient feed to the location,... that the location had been set-up to feed not only a dual tuner DVR from Dish, but also an independent coax for my OTA. According to them, the 1st installer reported that I only had one coax to both locations, and he forgot to revise the sheet which stated that I was to receive a multi-switch. Apparently, you need a multi-switch if you have 5 or more receivers (tuners). So he knew what he was doing,... that he was short changing the install. Him NOT installing the multi-switch confirms he had no intention of fully feeding the two DVR's. The company also saw on the 2nd installer's paperwork that enough cable was available and already ran, but the first installer had disconnected them all when undoing the E* install and just didn't reconnect them to the D* hardware.

Like I said, if there was enough coax and signal feed at my locations to support E*'s DVRs, why would there be a need to run custom coax to support D*'s DVR? Now I understand the HR20 has two OTA tuners and the 942 had only one, but the OTA signal can be split. Right????

Anyway, I have a 3rd visit scheduled for Friday, and I've been promised by DirecTV that I will not be charged for whatever the resolution is. I wonder if that means a credit or if the installer will be instructed not to bill me. I'm almost sorry I made the switch.

 

[Jhon69]

Why are you sorry for the switch?.Do you think all the jerkoff installers work for D*?.Believe me when I tell you I've had the same experience from both E*in 02
D*in 06.Guess I just have that look but unfortunately both installers found out different.

P.S. I've never had good luck combining OTA signals.Hopefully some out there knows how to do it right.Good Luck!.

Is the coax you have swept tested to 3GZ? the new D* coax is.

You need coax to both satellite inputs(2)and OTA inputs(2).

 

[ericpd]

Why are you sorry for the switch?.Do you think all the jerkoff installers work for D*?.Believe me when I tell you I've had the same experience from both E*in 02
D*in 06.Guess I just have that look but unfortunately both installers found out different.

P.S. I've never had good luck combining OTA signals.Hopefully some out there knows how to do it right.Good Luck!.

Is the coax you have swept tested to 3GZ? the new D* coax is.

You need coax to both satellite inputs(2)and OTA inputs(2).

Actually, I'm not sorry,... yet! While I prefer D* service to E*'s, I'm just not too fond of these first few days and the prospect of $100 a custom installation cost. I've been on a month-to-month with E* since March and they offered to upgrade my old 942 to a 622 free of charge if I entered into another 18 mos contract. Still I went to D* because of lower monthly cost (Verizon Triple Freedom) and the upcoming new HD capacity. The coupon freeing me of an ETF when Verizon's FIOS becomes available was also attractive, so this two year I just entered into really is only until I'm able to switch to FIOS,... if I decide to do so!

Thanks for the headsup on 3GZ,... I'll be sure to mention that. About the OTA signal,... even though it is said that the HR20 has two OTA tuners, I looked and there's only one OTA input that I can see. So maybe it's spliting the OTA signal inside the box to feed the two tuners.

Thanks again!

 

[Newshawk]

Anyway, I have a 3rd visit scheduled for Friday, and I've been promised by DirecTV that I will not be charged for whatever the resolution is. I wonder if that means a credit or if the installer will be instructed not to bill me. I'm almost sorry I made the switch.

It means that, as a new customer in the first 90 days, any return service call is at no charge. You should not see anything on your monthly statement at all. I hope this rocky start will soon be ba fading memory and that you'll be happy with your new D* system going forward.

 

[Jhon69]

Actually, I'm not sorry,... yet! While I prefer D* service to E*'s, I'm just not too fond of these first few days and the prospect of $100 a custom installation cost. I've been on a month-to-month with E* since March and they offered to upgrade my old 942 to a 622 free of charge if I entered into another 18 mos contract. Still I went to D* because of lower monthly cost (Verizon Triple Freedom) and the upcoming new HD capacity. The coupon freeing me of an ETF when Verizon's FIOS becomes available was also attractive, so this two year I just entered into really is only until I'm able to switch to FIOS,... if I decide to do so!

Thanks for the headsup on 3GZ,... I'll be sure to mention that. About the OTA signal,... even though it is said that the HR20 has two OTA tuners, I looked and there's only one OTA input that I can see. So maybe it's spliting the OTA signal inside the box to feed the two tuners.

Thanks again!

Your Welcome,Sorry my bad on the OTA cuze I don't have the HR20.Have a R15-500 and really like it.Hope you like D* as much as I do.Welcome to the"dark side". :

 

[Bob Nielsen]

About the OTA signal,... even though it is said that the HR20 has two OTA tuners, I looked and there's only one OTA input that I can see. So maybe it's spliting the OTA signal inside the box to feed the two tuners.

Thanks again!

Correct, there is only one OTA input, but it is split internally to feed two tuners.

 

[WalksInDarkness]

Beware...

Beware of D* subcontractors, most of them are barely qaulified to ask "would you like fries with that" (nevermind install complicated equipment). A few years back, my first D* install was a nightmare. My system was just a basic old fashioned SD 4 room NON-DVR setup. I had the techs out 3 times trying to figure out what they did wrong. Sometimes they sent out as many as 3 people, to try to diagnose the issues. Interestingly, when I looked here for assistance what I got were many flames and insults from the "friendly" folks here; apparently, many of them were D* cult members akin to the religous zealot types who can't admit Bush is doing a poor job in Iraq (don't worry I am sure we will find the WMDs some day kiddies:neener ...). Some of these guys are still on this site, so don't be surprised if you get some hate mail saying all this is actually your fault because YOU somehow are responsible for following the tech around and that YOU should have spent 3 weeks reading up on D* technology (yes, that makes sense, you should also tell your cardiologist how to perform you heart surgery also). Anyhow, after talking to an EE at my work, I was able to diagnose the problem in only 10 minutes using a $5 circuit tester I bought at Lowes; based on that, I am guessing these subcontractors have WONDERFUL (sarcasm) training program for thier "techs"!!! After that, I began doing ALL upgrades to the system myself.

Anyhow, keep pursuing the issue firmly (yet politely) via D* and the subcontracor management until you get all issues resolved. Document EVERYTHING (C.Y.A.P.), and make sure you run things like the DVR before the guy leaves. Don't be afraid to send the tech away, if he does not answer you questions satisfactorily.

Before you D* sicophants start flaming me:
Not all D* subcontractor techs are bozos. When I recently had my system upgraded to HD, I had them send in a tech to do the 5LNB dish (he also put in a new bigger multiswitch). It was only one guy, and the upgrade went perfectly. The only problem, the HR-20 did not like being fed through a power managemnet module, he instantly diagnosed and explained to me with technical fluency.

 

[monetnj]

One thing no one has mentioned, whereas the HR20 only needs 1 coax run to feed both OTA tuners on the HR20, all current D* DVRs need 1 coax run per tuner for the sat tuners. Thus, to get full dual-tuner functionality from the HR20s for sat and OTA, you need three coax runs each. Can't remember if the R15 has an OTA input, but at least for the 2 sat tuners you need coax runs for each.

This will change later on in the year when D* releases its Single Wire Multiswitch (SWM), but for now, 1 coax run per sat tuner is the only option.

I'm not going to Ebay to buy anything,... much less a multi-switch that the 1st installer recorded as installed and the 2nd installer declared wasn't anywhere to be found. Thanks for you response anyway!!

Jhon69 & Newshawk,... I hear ya! I did call D* and they had already escalated my ticket. They told me I would be receiving a call from the installer (Company) within the hour,... and I did. The charge is for a custom install. It seems as though a proper install requires fishing a coax through the wall. I told them that I already had sufficient feed to the location,... that the location had been set-up to feed not only a dual tuner DVR from Dish, but also an independent coax for my OTA. According to them, the 1st installer reported that I only had one coax to both locations, and he forgot to revise the sheet which stated that I was to receive a multi-switch. Apparently, you need a multi-switch if you have 5 or more receivers (tuners). So he knew what he was doing,... that he was short changing the install. Him NOT installing the multi-switch confirms he had no intention of fully feeding the two DVR's. The company also saw on the 2nd installer's paperwork that enough cable was available and already ran, but the first installer had disconnected them all when undoing the E* install and just didn't reconnect them to the D* hardware.

Like I said, if there was enough coax and signal feed at my locations to support E*'s DVRs, why would there be a need to run custom coax to support D*'s DVR? Now I understand the HR20 has two OTA tuners and the 942 had only one, but the OTA signal can be split. Right????

Anyway, I have a 3rd visit scheduled for Friday, and I've been promised by DirecTV that I will not be charged for whatever the resolution is. I wonder if that means a credit or if the installer will be instructed not to bill me. I'm almost sorry I made the switch.

 

[ericpd]

One thing no one has mentioned, whereas the HR20 only needs 1 coax run to feed both OTA tuners on the HR20, all current D* DVRs need 1 coax run per tuner for the sat tuners. Thus, to get full dual-tuner functionality from the HR20s for sat and OTA, you need three coax runs each. Can't remember if the R15 has an OTA input, but at least for the 2 sat tuners you need coax runs for each.

This will change later on in the year when D* releases its Single Wire Multiswitch (SWM), but for now, 1 coax run per sat tuner is the only option.

Yeah.... it finally took a while for me to successfully grab on to that fact. Still, the 1st installer should have explained it to me, and not just half do the job without any explanation. So it's the Multi-Switch that is the weak link,... not the receiver!!! D* could save themselve a lot of money and reputation by just upgrading to equipment that won't have their new customers paying for custom DVR installs. With this SWM multi-switch you speak of,... it sounds like that would have been able to just swap receivers and the exterior dish and be done with it.

At any rate, they have completed the install and I am very satisfied. The final installer did exactly what you said,... he set it up so that there are three cables for each location. Even though the basement location is a SD non-DVR location. He said it would make things easier if and when I should decide to upgrade.

As far as D* is concerned, I did get a second HR20 out of this at no charge, a total of two $10 monthly credits (one for 12 months and the other for 15 months), and six months of premiums as opposed to three months. So I'm very happy!

With all that they've offered, I'm not so certain I'll be wanting to doing FIOS when it arrives!

Now if I can just figure out how to control the volume on my Pioneer Elite receiver without sliding that damned mode switch. Right now the remote's volume control works the TV volume, but the TV is muted and not even in the loop! The on-screen instructions aren't that friendly and doesn't say anything about programming control of receivers while in sat mode!

 

[afulkerson]

Yeah.... it finally took a while for me to successfully grab on to that fact. Still, the 1st installer should have explained it to me, and not just half do the job without any explanation. So it's the Multi-Switch that is the weak link,... not the receiver!!! D* could save themselve a lot of money and reputation by just upgrading to equipment that won't have their new customers paying for custom DVR installs. With this SWM multi-switch you speak of,... it sounds like that would have been able to just swap receivers and the exterior dish and be done with it.

At any rate, they have completed the install and I am very satisfied. The final installer did exactly what you said,... he set it up so that there are three cables for each location. Even though the basement location is a SD non-DVR location. He said it would make things easier if and when I should decide to upgrade.

As far as D* is concerned, I did get a second HR20 out of this at no charge, a total of two $10 monthly credits (one for 12 months and the other for 15 months), and six months of premiums as opposed to three months. So I'm very happy!

With all that they've offered, I'm not so certain I'll be wanting to doing FIOS when it arrives!

Now if I can just figure out how to control the volume on my Pioneer Elite receiver without sliding that damned mode switch. Right now the remote's volume control works the TV volume, but the TV is muted and not even in the loop! The on-screen instructions aren't that friendly and doesn't say anything about programming control of receivers while in sat mode!

I belive that if you look clossly at the text on the screen if you program a av1 or av2 for audio there is a option to make the volume and mute controls work in the DSS mode.

I have a sony a/v surround sound and use the remote to control the vol and mute functions without moving the switch on the remote...

 

[iwc5893]

Now if I can just figure out how to control the volume on my Pioneer Elite receiver without sliding that damned mode switch. Right now the remote's volume control works the TV volume, but the TV is muted and not even in the loop! The on-screen instructions aren't that friendly and doesn't say anything about programming control of receivers while in sat mode!

If you want your volume to be slaved to your receiver at all times:
Slide the switch to whatever AV input controls your receiver. Press and hold "Mute" & "Select" until the light flashes. Press "993" and then press "Select".


If you want your volume to work with whatever AV input you have selected, the instructions are the same as before except for the last step. Instead of pressing "Select", press the "Volume Up".

 

[ericpd]

If you want your volume to be slaved to your receiver at all times:
Slide the switch to whatever AV input controls your receiver. Press and hold "Mute" & "Select" until the light flashes. Press "993" and then press "Select".


If you want your volume to work with whatever AV input you have selected, the instructions are the same as before except for the last step. Instead of pressing "Select", press the "Volume Up".

Oh this is doing nothing but setting my hair on fire! I tried the '993-Select' thing and the Pioneer still wouldn't respond to the volume control while in 'sat' mode. I re-programmed the receiver with the code, then pressed MUTE-n-SELECT again and did the '993-SELECT'. After the flashes, I switched back to 'sat' mode and tried the remote's volume control. Nothing!

Out of desparation, I reset the remote with the 981 code, thinking a reboot of sorts would allow me to start over. Now the remote is totally ignored by the HR20. I think I found a link on here to fix that,... but right now I might as well be pointing a brick at the HR20.

I wish this remote allowed you to copy individual functions from another remote by putting them head-to-head and performing some button strokes. Then I could just program the volume control by copying the function from the Pioneer remote.

 

[monetnj]

Someone asked a similar question on DBS Talk the other day on this thread:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=67377

Please note that this assume you have programmed your receiver onto AV1

Oh this is doing nothing but setting my hair on fire! I tried the '993-Select' thing and the Pioneer still wouldn't respond to the volume control while in 'sat' mode. I re-programmed the receiver with the code, then pressed MUTE-n-SELECT again and did the '993-SELECT'. After the flashes, I switched back to 'sat' mode and tried the remote's volume control. Nothing!

Out of desparation, I reset the remote with the 981 code, thinking a reboot of sorts would allow me to start over. Now the remote is totally ignored by the HR20. I think I found a link on here to fix that,... but right now I might as well be pointing a brick at the HR20.

I wish this remote allowed you to copy individual functions from another remote by putting them head-to-head and performing some button strokes. Then I could just program the volume control by copying the function from the Pioneer remote.

 

[Newshawk]

Oh this is doing nothing but setting my hair on fire! I tried the '993-Select' thing and the Pioneer still wouldn't respond to the volume control while in 'sat' mode. I re-programmed the receiver with the code, then pressed MUTE-n-SELECT again and did the '993-SELECT'. After the flashes, I switched back to 'sat' mode and tried the remote's volume control. Nothing!

directv.com has the RC32's instruction manual (which comes with the replacement remote but not with the remote packed in the box). Here's the link for the manual in PDF form: http://www.directv.com/see/pdf/RC32.pdf

Out of desparation, I reset the remote with the 981 code, thinking a reboot of sorts would allow me to start over. Now the remote is totally ignored by the HR20. I think I found a link on here to fix that,... but right now I might as well be pointing a brick at the HR20.

Were you in RF mode when you reset the remote? If so, you'll need to return the receiver to IR mode. Here's how:

1. Menu
2. Help & Settings
3. Setup
4. Remote
5. IR/RF Mode
6. Click on "RF", choose "IR" in drop down and select
7. Ignore th rest of the instructions as the 981 reset of the remote has already put it in IR mode.

I wish this remote allowed you to copy individual functions from another remote by putting them head-to-head and performing some button strokes. Then I could just program the volume control by copying the function from the Pioneer remote.

Can't help you there.

 

[ericpd]

directv.com has the RC32's instruction manual (which comes with the replacement remote but not with the remote packed in the box). Here's the link for the manual in PDF form: http://www.directv.com/see/pdf/RC32.pdf



Were you in RF mode when you reset the remote? If so, you'll need to return the receiver to IR mode. Here's how:

1. Menu
2. Help & Settings
3. Setup
4. Remote
5. IR/RF Mode
6. Click on "RF", choose "IR" in drop down and select
7. Ignore th rest of the instructions as the 981 reset of the remote has already put it in IR mode.



Can't help you there.

You should be President! You were right,... when I reset the remote to factory default, it switched itself back to IR mode. With the receiver still being in RF mode, they weren't talking to one another. Once I got them both talking the same language, it was a breeze. Thanks for the instructions.

Also,... before you can lock the remote's volume control to a specific device in any mode, you must first program TV. One more thing guys,... the remote bundled with the HR20-100b is an RC34, not the 32! Not sure what the differences are!

Again,... thanks folks!

 

[Newshawk]

You should be President!... Thanks for the instructions.

What, and have to put up with all that.. er... stuff? Glad to help! The reason I know all this is BTDT... been there, done that.

Also,... before you can lock the remote's volume control to a specific device in any mode, you must first program TV. One more thing guys,... the remote bundled with the HR20-100b is an RC34, not the 32! Not sure what the differences are!

Again,... thanks folks!

I think the RC34 is an RC32RF without the backlighting feature.