Real DirecTV Subscriber numbers

[Bruce]

To be fair to Dish Network and all the turmoil they are having, Fitch Ratings did a new report on DirecTV in Jan.2024, finally have subscriber number I can prove with a link, vs me just posting I know from work, by the way, these numbers match up with what I have posted previously.

DIRECTV's video subscriber base (combined DIRECTV, U-verse, DIRECTV Stream) is the third largest traditional multi-channel video programming distributor (MVPD) in the U.S. with approximately 11.3 million subscribers at the end of 3Q23

So, as of Q4, that means they are now in the 10 Million range for all 4 Companies, Uverse is right around 2-2.5 Million because of multi-dwellings, that basically leaves less then 9 Million for by Satellite and the two internet versions.

By the way, the last time Fitch did this was in Q1 2021, where they had 16.5 Million Subscribers, so to get to Q32023, that is 10 reporting quarters, they lost 5.2 Million subscribers which is basically 500,000 subs lost ever quarter, so those estimated losses were totally wrong.

here-DIRECTV's video subscriber base (combined DIRECTV, U-verse, DIRECTV STREAM) is the second largest traditional multi-channel video programming distributor (MVPD) in the U.S. with approximately 16.5 million subscribers at the end of 1Q21

AT&T will definitely be luckily to give it away with the debt, which is right around $10 Billion.

https://www.fitchratings.com/research/corporate-finance/fitch-affirms-directv-ratings-at-bb-senior-secured-ratings-at-bbb-rr1-08-01-2024

https://www.fitchratings.com/research/corporate-finance/fitch-affirms-directv-ratings-on-proposed-tack-on-notes-offering-announcement-06-12-2021

 

[CSM]

I wonder if an investment group would want to buy both DTV and Dish, and put them together? Or both AT&T and Dish would just sell both of them off for parts? They could keep the satellite part going until 2035, unless more customers even leave the new company? Then shut that down early if it became less profitable. They could then just keep the streaming business and merge that into one service, but it should have competitive pricing with YouTube TV and Hulu+Live TV.

 

[Bruce]

I wonder if an investment group would want to buy both DTV and Dish, and put them together?

The math shows us that would not be a wise investment, DirecTV with $10 Billion of debt, Dish with $38 Billion.

Then the fact of DirecTV losing 2 million a year in Subscribers, Dish over a Million, that is a lot of revenue they would be losing, a merger would not stop that from happening.

Or both AT&T and Dish would just sell both of them off for parts?

To use for what, even selling the spectrum Dish has is problematic because of needing FCC approval.

They could keep the satellite part going until 2035, unless more customers even leave the new company?

They will not last that long.

They could then just keep the streaming business and merge that into one service, but it should have competitive pricing with YouTube TV and Hulu+Live TV.

YouTube TV has won, it is over as far as other Live TV Streaming goes, no one can catch up, while Hulu Live, Fubo gained 100,000 each, YTTV gained 1.9 Million.

My numbers from work is DirecTV Stream and by Internet, have less then 1.5 Million together vs the 8 Million YTTV have.

 

[prushing]

YouTube TV has won, it is over as far as other Live TV Streaming goes, no one can catch up, while Hulu Live, Fubo gained 100,000 each, YTTV gained 1.9 Million.

My numbers from work is DirecTV Stream and by Internet, have less then 1.5 Million together vs the 8 Million YTTV have.

They haven't won anything. They will have the same problems and right now they still aren't making money on it. The costs continue to rise and the price has to go up. With Sunday ticket, they can't make a profit. Streaming services are also having issues as the quality of shows is lacking and people are dropping. As long as DTV continues with their streaming options and improving that and price options, they won't keep losing subscribers. I think they will start to add subscribers back in the future and maintain or slightly grow.

YouTube TV & YouTube Will Reportedly Lose $1.2 Billion on NFL Sunday Ticket This Year | Cord Cutters News

Back in December of 2022, YouTube and YouTube TV reportedly paid $2 billion for NFL Sunday Ticket. This comes after decades of the service being exclusive to DIRECTV. Now, according to a report from Morgan Stanley, YouTube and YouTube TV will lose $1.2 Billion this year. There is some good news...

cordcuttersnews.com

 

[Bruce]

They haven't won anything.

They are picking up almost 2 Million subs a year, vs Cable/Satellite losing around 6.6 Million this year, Comcast lost the most, DirecTV was second in number of losses.

By the way, I do not have YTTV, so I am not here to promote it or any other forms of streaming here.

They will have the same problems and right now they still aren't making money on it.

It was reported they are making a profit on it, they have just as many subscribers as DirecTV Satellite, but without the infrastructure costs, so if DirecTV is still profitable, then YTTV is also.

YTTV advantages are in making a profit, no installers, no trips to people homes, no boxes, pay less for Broadcast Channels since the networks handle the per sub fees negotiations, do not have certain channels, like the RSNs, so that helps to keep the bill down, etc.

The costs continue to rise and the price has to go up.

So will Traditional Providers, Comcast, Charter/Spectrum, DirecTV even had two increases in 2023.

YTTV has only had four price increases since it started service in 2017.

With Sunday ticket, they can't make a profit.

They have gained 2 million subscribers to YTTV since the ST deal, that is a tad more then $1.7 Billion dollars in revenue in just one year, so they might lose money on ST ( curious how good year 2 will be), gaining it back in increased subscribers.

Streaming services are also having issues as the quality of shows is lacking and people are dropping.

Nope, first Netflix reported their ratings a few months ago, a number of shows have ratings greater then Cable Channels’ TV Shows, equal to Broadcast, some greater then Broadcast, The Night Agent had a much better rating then the Broadcast Channels get when they have normal new content on, not the icky during the strike content.

Now, sub numbers were up for most streaming services (Disney+ was a little down), for example, Paramount+ just reported a 4th Quarter gain of 4 Million, up 8 Million for the year, Netflix was about 20 Million up for the year, even services I am not fond of, Peacock and AMC+ was up.

As long as DTV continues with their streaming options and improving that and price options, they won't keep losing subscribers.

Why, show me one example of DirecTV or any other provider, including streaming , lower or not raising their price every year.

I think they will start to add subscribers back in the future and maintain or slightly grow.

Again why, give me a good example why that would happen, not just hopes and dreams, DirecTV losses have picked up again, a average of 500,000 every quarter in 2.5 years is just not a good thing, when there are so many options out there now and more coming, gives even more people incentive to check them out and maybe leave.

 

[CSM]

The math shows us that would not be a wise investment, DirecTV with $10 Billion of debt, Dish with $38 Billion.

I didn't realize DTV had that much in debt. Sorry, what I meant by adjust the pricing with the merged streaming services if they stuck with the DTV via Net pricing they wouldn't get huge subscribers. They would leave after the two-year price lock expires.

 

[prushing]

They are picking up almost 2 Million subs a year, vs Cable/Satellite losing around 6.6 Million this year, Comcast lost the most, DirecTV was second in number of losses.

By the way, I do not have YTTV, so I am not here to promote it or any other forms of streaming here.

It was reported they are making a profit on it, they have just as many subscribers as DirecTV Satellite, but without the infrastructure costs, so if DirecTV is still profitable, then YTTV is also.

YTTV advantages are in making a profit, no installers, no trips to people homes, no boxes, pay less for Broadcast Channels since the networks handle the per sub fees negotiations, do not have certain channels, like the RSNs, so that helps to keep the bill down, etc.

So will Traditional Providers, Comcast, Charter/Spectrum, DirecTV even had two increases in 2023.

YTTV has only had four price increases since it started service in 2017.

They have gained 2 million subscribers to YTTV since the ST deal, that is a tad more then $1.7 Billion dollars in revenue in just one year, so they might lose money on ST ( curious how good year 2 will be), gaining it back in increased subscribers.


Nope, first Netflix reported their ratings a few months ago, a number of shows have ratings greater then Cable Channels’ TV Shows, equal to Broadcast, some greater then Broadcast, The Night Agent had a much better rating then the Broadcast Channels get when they have normal new content on, not the icky during the strike content.

Now, sub numbers were up for most streaming services (Disney+ was a little down), for example, Paramount+ just reported a 4th Quarter gain of 4 Million, up 8 Million for the year, Netflix was about 20 Million up for the year, even services I am not fond of, Peacock and AMC+ was up.

Why, show me one example of DirecTV or any other provider, including streaming , lower or not raising their price every year.

Again why, give me a good example why that would happen, not just hopes and dreams, DirecTV losses have picked up again, a average of 500,000 every quarter in 2.5 years is just not a good thing, when there are so many options out there now and more coming, gives even more people incentive to check them out and maybe leave.

You refused to look at the link that shows they are losing >$1 billion last year. They don't make money on the TV service, they were selling it below cost to get subscribers. They have raised rates and cut channels. Unless Google floats them at a loss to generate ad revenue and cross promote other Google services, they can't continue losing this much money.

Ratings for Netflix don't matter, you can stream Netflix shows in 1 day (i.e. pay 1 month and watch all the shows you missed). They all are having problems keeping subscribers and covering the costs. It cost too much to produce the volume of shows they need. Streaming services will be combining soon and we will be back to similar network tv with 4 or so big groups.

You can look at the numbers of subscribers all you want but that is month to month, it doesn't lock you in. There are too many streaming services and it is worse than broadcast is with the cost for all of them. Now add the new ads each service wants to have because they lose money and people are getting fed up with it. You can think I'm wrong but go look at the rumors of the mergers happening in the future. The big studios are going to assert control again and that will cause some movement back to cable or streaming TV.

Another thing you aren't including is the new union contracts that are increasing costs a ton. The streaming services don't have the revenue to make all the shows they need.

 

[Jimbo]

They haven't won anything. They will have the same problems and right now they still aren't making money on it. The costs continue to rise and the price has to go up. With Sunday ticket, they can't make a profit. Streaming services are also having issues as the quality of shows is lacking and people are dropping. As long as DTV continues with their streaming options and improving that and price options, they won't keep losing subscribers. I think they will start to add subscribers back in the future and maintain or slightly grow.

YouTube TV & YouTube Will Reportedly Lose $1.2 Billion on NFL Sunday Ticket This Year | Cord Cutters News

Back in December of 2022, YouTube and YouTube TV reportedly paid $2 billion for NFL Sunday Ticket. This comes after decades of the service being exclusive to DIRECTV. Now, according to a report from Morgan Stanley, YouTube and YouTube TV will lose $1.2 Billion this year. There is some good news...

cordcuttersnews.com

When is D* Improving Pricing Options ????
I think they keep going UP...

 

[prushing]

When is D* Improving Pricing Options ????
I think they keep going UP...

Options from different services and packages .... options doesn't mean prices don't go up. I do think they will play hardball more with networks to keep the prices from going up in the future.

Sent from my SM-T970 using Tapatalk

 

[slice1900]

It was reported they are making a profit on it, they have just as many subscribers as DirecTV Satellite, but without the infrastructure costs, so if DirecTV is still profitable, then YTTV is also.

You think YTTV doesn't have any infrastructure costs?

Directv's infrastructure costs don't scale with subscribers - it doesn't cost them anything to serve one additional customer. They are broadcasting a signal into your backyard whether or not you have a dish up to receive it. But even though their infrastructure is mostly sunk cost as they shrink that cost becomes a bigger piece of the subscriber's bill. But even though it is still going to be pretty small if it goes from say 3% to 8% that's 5% cut to your profit margin which hurts especially when those debt payments are getting more expensive with higher interest rates.

YTTV's infrastructure cost goes up with each subscriber, so they get less benefit from scale. YTTV probably leverages a lot of "spare" capacity built into Youtube's massive infrastructure so any reported "profit" has to be taken with a grain of salt. It is getting the benefit of economies of scale from needing a fraction of 1% of the capacity Youtube has built.

A big reason why vMVPDs like YTTV are able to beat cable/satellite pricing is due to the fact they are unregulated, because they didn't exist when the laws were written so the FCC can't touch them. That's freed them from having to pay the massive fees for locals ($25+ per month and counting) that cable/satellite carriers have been forced to. They still pay something, but they are able to go around the Sinclairs/Nexstars and negotiate directly with the networks and get much better pricing as a result.

 

[Bruce]

You think YTTV doesn't have any infrastructure costs?

Just DirecTV has more, infrastructure is not just building/launching Satellites , it is ground stations, those who have to maintain them ( remember the one that went out of it’s orbital slot about 2 weeks ago) it is installers, managers, etc.

And I know YTTV has infrastructure costs, but since it is in the YouTube part of Alphabet, they have been able to control those costs, for example, the Server Infrastructure, Content Delivery Networks, YouTube gets massive discounts from those services because of scale, I have seen what Hulu Live pays, it is much higher then Google.

A big reason why vMVPDs like YTTV are able to beat cable/satellite pricing is due to the fact they are unregulated, because they didn't exist when the laws were written so the FCC can't touch them.

Good.

That's freed them from having to pay the massive fees for locals ($25+ per month and counting)

Ok, I work in the industry until May, the per sub fees for Broadcast Networks is no where near $25 for all four channels, people get charged that ( especially with Cable, Comcast is now over $30 for the fee), I agree, but even in the biggest metro markets it is not close to that, Cable uses that Broadcast and RSN Fee to help with profits.

 

[Wobble]

I appreciate DTV Satellite being so user friendly & the channel packages that they have. Then, I can afford too.

 

[John2021]

with the new receiver fee. i think there starting to milk out what they can from the subs before they sell it in a fire sale. either company is doing good right now. they yelled and screamed they were gonna bring it back to the way it was. hell that's laughable at best.

 

[dtv757]

New receiver fee ??

 

[John2021]

New receiver fee ??

the 15.00 advanced receiver fee!!!

 

[Bruce]

the 15.00 advanced receiver fee!!!

That is not new.

 

[John2021]

They haven't won anything. They will have the same problems and right now they still aren't making money on it. The costs continue to rise and the price has to go up. With Sunday ticket, they can't make a profit. Streaming services are also having issues as the quality of shows is lacking and people are dropping. As long as DTV continues with their streaming options and improving that and price options, they won't keep losing subscribers. I think they will start to add subscribers back in the future and maintain or slightly grow.

YouTube TV & YouTube Will Reportedly Lose $1.2 Billion on NFL Sunday Ticket This Year | Cord Cutters News

Back in December of 2022, YouTube and YouTube TV reportedly paid $2 billion for NFL Sunday Ticket. This comes after decades of the service being exclusive to DIRECTV. Now, according to a report from Morgan Stanley, YouTube and YouTube TV will lose $1.2 Billion this year. There is some good news...

cordcuttersnews.com

along with better pricing they need a better billing system off of ATT and better csr's. how many do you really think will flock back to em after they remember they were burned by em. the price goes up every year. most want to pick a few channels they watch

 

[John2021]

That is not new.

well it's the newest one!!!

 

[KyL416]

It's not, the Advanced Receiver Fee was introduced over a decade ago as a combo of the HD, DVR and multiroom fees. Some grandfathered accounts still have them broken out into seperate fees.

 

[John2021]

It's not, the Advanced Receiver Fee was introduced over a decade ago as a combo of the HD, DVR and multiroom fees. Some grandfathered accounts still have them broken out into seperate fees.

interesting we have had it when we started out next thing you know there's the 15.00 fee!!! though we were in an all included package at the time!!!