Redskins name controvesy (1 Viewer)

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TNGTony

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Sep 7, 2003
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Before I saw Bob Costa's editorial on SNF last night I made this comment on another social site. I wanted to share this with you all and ask your thoughts. This is not about politics. This is about whether this name is appropriate or not.
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The current push against the team name "Redskins" as being a racial slur made me think. For the longest time, like most people, I never thought about it. And before that, I actually got angry at people who would dare attack team mascot names. But time and life experience has made me see things in a different light.

Most people don't think about the team mascot names, and, in most circumstances, I see that these names that could be considered racially insensitive have multiple meanings, or could be seen as tribute rather than slander.

Team names are supposed to be fearsome "fighting" names. In most circumstances I see these names that are designed to bring up visions of specific fighting, vicious men (i.e. by definition, racist names) can be turned into tributes. Braves, warriors, chiefs, and the like can refer to any group. In our culture we see these are brave Indian warriors. We can celebrate these men fighting for their way of life. It can be a positive image. But a name like Red Skins has absolutely no redeeming quality. The San Francisco Chinks, San Diego Wetbacks, Cincinnati Krauts, The New York Guineas are exactly analogous to the origin and continued meaning of "Redskins". (and the common derivative: Red Men).

My opinion is not yet fully formed on mascot names for tribes such as the Seminoles, Mohawks, Blackhawks, etc. I see how these can be tributes to indigenous peoples. And in some cases (like blackhawks) there are multiple meanings including a Black Hawk. The fact that the Seminole nation gave Florida State permission to keep the name in the face of the NCAA rule against such names makes the point that at least some Indian nations see the tribute potential in that type of name. And in these names I don't even count the Illini, as I would wager most don't even know it refers to an Indian tribe that used to inhabit the area we now call Illinois.

Of course among my favorite team names is the Fighting Pretzels of Freeport Illinois.

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Here is Bob Costa's editorial, please watch before commenting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT9wy5xoMcI

One of the people who commented on the other social site took objection, not to the subject, but to the fact that it was presented at halftime during the game. My retort was that no one seems to complain when the editorials are about steroids use, concussion/brain injury or other such controversial topics that don't have the "political correctness" overtone. And that his objection totally circumvents the actual issue.
 
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Scott Greczkowski

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What's next? Is the Ritz company going to demand people stop calling their famous treats "crackers" just because they don't want to offend people?

It's a name from the past and for a time it was a name people respected.

See the ski at the end of my last name, you know how many times I have been called pollock? I don't let it offend me at all in fact I consider it a badge of honor.

What would Archie Bunker say about this? I think he would be upset that we as Americans are so easily offended today and he would probably tell us to "lighten up and grow a set."

Honestly I would agree with Mr Bunker.


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TNGTony

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The issue is "What else does it mean?"
Cracker can be used as a racial slur, or it can mean a tasty snack with cheese. Cowboy USED to be a pejorative term in the 1880s, it's not now. Redskin when accompanied with an indianhead means nothing else but a racial slur. That is the issue.
 

dfergie

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How come it now is an insult. What was it years ago as it was used to identify the football team from Washington. Was it an insult then or did it have to wait for an Indian Nation looking for some excuse to get in the News to say it is an insult?
This is from Here a sentiment I have to agree with, and I hate the Redskins, but support the team in this matter... PC can only go so far. ;)
 

TNGTony

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It's ALWAYS been a slur. It's NEVER been anything else. It is just in the last couple of decades that we (I include myself in this) have been enlightened to see other non-eurocentric views on the subject. As someone who scowled when Miami University changed its name from the Redskins to the Red Hawks, and laughed when the Tecumseh Indians (High school) changed its name to the Arrows, I know how those opposed to the change feel. I used the same arguments on the other side. But think about what the term really means, has always meant. And as far as I am concerned, the world did not come to an end when the Miami Redskins became the Red Hawks.

BTW. for those that don't know, The Miami nation used to dominate this part of the country. Not sure how Florida ended up with the a city by that name, but tons of stuff in this part of Ohio has the name "Miami".
 

Juan

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What about calling your team the "Browns".. Isnt a "jaguar" a religious symbol (Aztec)? Really when will it stop?? I believe the Native Americans consider it an insult to be called an "Indian".."Cowboy" That could also be an insult...A "Giant" is an insensitive term for a tall person..What about the "Fighting Irish"?
 

TNGTony

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All these false equivalencies... Redskin is, and was a pejorative term. If Notre Dame had a team "The Fighting Mics" that would be the same as Redskins. I hope people can make that distinction!
 

Geronimo

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Tis is also being discussed in the pit. It may well be that the Pit is the best plae for a discussion like this. After all it is about the name of a sports team but this is not the same as discussing the great come from behind wins of the Patrots and Red Sox yesterday.
 
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riffjim4069

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Hail to the Redskins...and I don't even like 'em

I'm fine with the use of the name Redskins and, in fact, I want the name Bullets to be reinstated instead of that silly Wizards name. Wizards? Now ain't that a kick in the head! It's not politically correct to use the word Bullets in the team name, yet it's acceptable to use the name of a mystical spellbinding evildoer and/or the Grand Imperial leader of the KKK? Umm. Okay! Hell, if the public wants a little truth in advertising they should rename the Wizards back to the Washington Bullets or Deadbeat Dads and the Redskins to the DC Beltway Thug Snipers. What's even more upsetting---from a totally idiotic and inane point-of-view being advocated by the politically correct zealots---is that Asian and Midget populations are well under-represented in professional sports. Why stop there....let's have quotas for people with disabilities. :rolleyes:

Finally, has anyone asked the proud Lions how they feel about the William Clay Ford family making a mockery of their name oe'r these past 50-years? Yes, I'm being somewhat silly...just like the subject of changing the Redskins name. Seriously, does a stirring rendition of "Hail to the Debtors" have the same ring to it? What's next? Changing the name of the Dallas Cowboys because the name Cowboy has derogatory and demeaning connotations to Native Americans? Sorry if it gets anyone's panties in an uproar, but I grew up playing Cowboys and Indians and the Injuns were the bad guys. And I still avoid buying Jap products because of the atrocities these scumbags committed during WWII (remember Pearl Harbor and the Bataan Death March?) :mad:
 
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BillD1984

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I'm fine with the use of the name Redskins and, in fact, I want the name Bullets to be reinstated instead of that silly Wizards name. Wizards? Now ain't that a kick in the head! It's not politically correct to use the word Bullets in the team name, yet it's acceptable to use the name of a mystical spellbinding evildoer and/or the Grand Imperial leader of the KKK? Umm. Okay! Hell, if the public wants a little truth in advertising they should rename the Wizards back to the Washington Bullets or Deadbeat Dads and the Redskins to the DC Beltway Thug Snipers. What's even more upsetting---from a totally idiotic and inane point-of-view being advocated by the politically correct zealots---is that Asian and Midget populations are well under-represented in professional sports. Why stop there....let's have quotas for people with disabilities. :rolleyes:

Finally, has anyone asked the proud Lions how they feel about the William Clay Ford family making a mockery of their name oe'r these past 50-years? Yes, I'm being somewhat silly...just like the subject of changing the Redskins name. Seriously, does a stirring rendition of "Hail to the Debtors" have the same ring to it? What's next? Changing the name of the Dallas Cowboys because the name Cowboy has derogatory and demeaning connotations to Native Americans? Sorry if it gets anyone's panties in an uproar, but I grew up playing Cowboys and Indians and the Injuns were the bad guys. And I still avoid buying Jap products because of the atrocities these scumbags committed during WWII (remember Pearl Harbor and the Bataan Death March?) :mad:

This post is AWESOME!! :)
 

TNGTony

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I will repeat: names like Wizards, Giants, [insert other false equivalencies here] have OTHER meanings. None of those names arose as a pejorative for a race of people and in any other context continue to be a pejorative term. A true equivalent would be the Cleveland Darkies.

I don't expect to change anyone's mind right away. I just want you to see what it is you are defending. Because something has been around for a long time does not mean it was okay all along and suddenly became not okay. It was NEVER okay. It's just now there are enough people out there with a dissenting voice to be heard.
 

Geronimo

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The change to Wizards was the team's idea. While they did cite concerns that the old name (Bullets) glorified violence it is likely that it was really a way to sell team merchandise. Personally I think they should have concentrated on putting a winning tema on the court. That would have sold a lot of Bullets merchandise. But maybe I am just a cynic.
 

AntAltMike

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Whiteman speak with fork-ed toungue. That is a common theme of movies with Redskins in them. I'm a Whiteman. It doesn't piss me off when the Redskins say Whiteman speaks with forked-tounge, because lots of us did, and I am not offended by anyone saying that.

Two of my grandparents were born in Greece. My mother and her siblings were called greaseball when they were kids, but one of their friends enjoyed his nickname, "Greasy" right up until he died twenty years ago.

No one has ever called me honkey, but whenever I hear that term I think of Harpo Marx honking his horn. The Indians who say they are offended by being called Redskins or Indians or whatever can go back to India for all I care.
 
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DodgerKing

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Costa just needs to STFU and announce the game. We don't want to hear the political views of a sports commentator no matter if we agree with it or not. We tune in to watch a game, not get a lecture.

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Teehar

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Costa just needs to STFU and announce the game. We don't want to hear the political views of a sports commentator no matter if we agree with it or not. We tune in to watch a game, not get a lecture.

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I used to think Costas was a great commentator,these days not so much.When he started babbling about that last night,I immediately skipped it.

My great grandfather was a full blooded Cherokee Indian,I nor any of the rest of that side of the family take offense to the Redskin team name!There are way,way,more important things to worry about in this country,besides this nonsense!
 
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Tyralak

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Because as we all know, the only ethnic stereotypes in sports are Native Americans. Oh wait.

033393c13e6dec0fd6cc5006453fbeb5.png


Minnesota_Vikings.jpg


I think I'm supposed to be offended or something. I guess I can't be arsed to be.
 

Scott Greczkowski

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Never thought the Redskins, Browns, Indians, Celtics etc as being rasist. I always thought of them as team names...

But with that said I am still trying to figure out what a Knickerbocker is. :)
 
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