Requesting help for installing a toroidal antenna

[Mr Tony]

1. They come with the wall mount bracket. The bracket on the back can be used for pole mount too

2. As previously mentioned the spacing can be a bugger if its less than three degrees. There are LNB's out there that are narrow so you can do 2 degrees. Monoblocks are JUNK...dont use them

3. you MAY get signals from both but its hit and miss (and the signals need to be strong). I could get 2 different sats but one was DBS which are higher powered then KU

4. yes

5. I never used anything because the dish was almost "straight up"


I haven't had my T90 dish in years but here is the review I did at the time (and a lot of the modifications I did with LNB's and such)

http://www.satelliteguys.us/xen/threads/wave-frontier-toroidal-t-90-satellite-dish.77005/

 

[Mr Tony]

Iceburg is the man for this job.

yeah I had one but its been at least 5 years since I had it so my mind can be foggy

 

[Mr Tony]

I'm basically going to do a "dump" of the pics that I took when I had mine. I wont include the signal shots (what the screen showed) but some (or most) may be in the link I posted above
(click on pic to blow it up)

 

[Mr Tony]

set 2

 

[Mr Tony]

set 3

 

[Mr Tony]

 

[Hamed.Begloo]

1. They come with the wall mount bracket. The bracket on the back can be used for pole mount too

2. As previously mentioned the spacing can be a bugger if its less than three degrees. There are LNB's out there that are narrow so you can do 2 degrees. Monoblocks are JUNK...dont use them

3. you MAY get signals from both but its hit and miss (and the signals need to be strong). I could get 2 different sats but one was DBS which are higher powered then KU

4. yes

5. I never used anything because the dish was almost "straight up"

Thanks a lot man that really helped.

I haven't had my T90 dish in years but here is the review I did at the time (and a lot of the modifications I did with LNB's and such)

http://www.satelliteguys.us/xen/threads/wave-frontier-toroidal-t-90-satellite-dish.77005/

OK I will read it completely as soon as possible. Thanks again.

View attachment 113214

I see one unusual LNB in center of the image. Is that the same "reduced scalar type LNB" said by Titanium in previous page. Is the "Inverto Multiconnect LNB" suggested by RimaNTSS better or it's the other way around.

ALL THE BEST.

 

[Mr Tony]

That LNB (the oblong one) was designed at the time to work with a Dish Network "Superdish"
At one time Dish had locals on the 121W slot (they dont anymore). So the dish was setup with DBS LNB's at 110 & 119 and that weird one (KU) at 121. It was needed due to the 2 degree spacing. A bunch became available so I scooped them up at the time. The one thing about them is that they are "stacked" frequencies. That is the horizontal frequencies are "stacked" above the vertical frequencies. Most newer receivers can handle it fine. Its just that they may look goofy to see "12805" for a frequency when 12200 is "normally" the end of the KU band here in the US (DBS starts at 12200). Now in Iran it may be different

 

[Titanium]

The Inverto Multiconnect LNBF with the reduced scalar is probably the best solution for you as it is a Universal LO with full coverage 10.7 - 12.75GHz.

 

[Mr Tony]

The Inverto Multiconnect LNBF with the reduced scalar is probably the best solution for you as it is a Universal LO with full coverage 10.7 - 12.75GHz.

agreed!

 

[Hamed.Begloo]

That LNB (the oblong one) was designed at the time to work with a Dish Network "Superdish"
At one time Dish had locals on the 121W slot (they dont anymore). So the dish was setup with DBS LNB's at 110 & 119 and that weird one (KU) at 121. It was needed due to the 2 degree spacing. A bunch became available so I scooped them up at the time. The one thing about them is that they are "stacked" frequencies. That is the horizontal frequencies are "stacked" above the vertical frequencies. Most newer receivers can handle it fine. Its just that they may look goofy to see "12805" for a frequency when 12200 is "normally" the end of the KU band here in the US (DBS starts at 12200). Now in Iran it may be different

The Inverto Multiconnect LNBF with the reduced scalar is probably the best solution for you as it is a Universal LO with full coverage 10.7 - 12.75GHz.

agreed!

THANK YOU TO ALL OF YOU AND THANK YOU FOR ALL THE HELPS.

I will try it and will share the results. But as my location is Iran, it may take much time to get the dish and accessories to setup them. So it may need patience to see my results.

AGAIN THANK YOU ALL AND ALL THE BEST.

 

[pendragon]

Hamed - I'm sorry I'm late to the party, but I see you have been well taken care of. I put up three T90 dishes many years ago and still use them all the time. While I also have motorized dishes, the toroids cannot be beat for instant and multiple access.

I only used normal width LNBFs on my T90s, which ordinarily limits the spacing to 4 degrees. I found I could cut off the edges of the scalars with a hacksaw to space these LNBFS 2 degrees apart. It was about 5 mm on both sides, and this causes very minimal signal degradation. Almost all of my LNBs are configured this way. There are two problems with this approach:

1. The LNB holders that came with my T90s are too wide for 2 degree spacing. I solved this by bolting my cutdown LNBFs together in pairs with ground clamps and long carriage bolts, and using one LNB holder to mount each pair.

2. When slicing off each side of the scalar, the unit is no longer sealed from moisture. Because I have pairs of LNBs for reason #1, I simply sealed the edges and glued the sliced LNB covers back on with silicon caulk. Temperatures here run from -30 to +40 degrees C and we can have horrendous rainstorms. But out of 30+ LNBs for the 7 odd years I've used my T90s, only one of these seals was ever breached. I emptied out the water, resealed it, and the LNBFs are still working fine.

I did try narrow LNBFs, sometimes called 'bullet LNBFs', and narrow feedhorns. None of these worked as well as the cutdown LNBFs, and that makes sense with theory. The bigger scalars of normal LNBFs will give better polar pattern control, and more cutoff towards the edges of the dish. This translates to higher signal quality and is easily measured. This might be even more important for you because of jamming/interference. The narrow LNBFs will have less rejection off-axis than the larger scalar units, and this will allow more interference to leak in.

Still any interference can only occur in line of sight at these frequencies (but it can be reflected), and if you shield the dish with suitable building materials, this should block the energy very efficiently. I would probably go so far as to recommend building a box around the dish, leaving only enough clearance for the dish to see the sky. After all where you are the geostationary satellites are likely 30-50 degrees above the horizon. The walls of the box should completely hide a view of the dish from the ground.

Anyway, best wishes for success with your project!

 

[Hamed.Begloo]

Hamed - I'm sorry I'm late to the party, but I see you have been well taken care of. I put up three T90 dishes many years ago and still use them all the time. While I also have motorized dishes, the toroids cannot be beat for instant and multiple access.

I only used normal width LNBFs on my T90s, which ordinarily limits the spacing to 4 degrees. I found I could cut off the edges of the scalars with a hacksaw to space these LNBFS 2 degrees apart. It was about 5 mm on both sides, and this causes very minimal signal degradation. Almost all of my LNBs are configured this way. There are two problems with this approach:

1. The LNB holders that came with my T90s are too wide for 2 degree spacing. I solved this by bolting my cutdown LNBFs together in pairs with ground clamps and long carriage bolts, and using one LNB holder to mount each pair.

2. When slicing off each side of the scalar, the unit is no longer sealed from moisture. Because I have pairs of LNBs for reason #1, I simply sealed the edges and glued the sliced LNB covers back on with silicon caulk. Temperatures here run from -30 to +40 degrees C and we can have horrendous rainstorms. But out of 30+ LNBs for the 7 odd years I've used my T90s, only one of these seals was ever breached. I emptied out the water, resealed it, and the LNBFs are still working fine.

I did try narrow LNBFs, sometimes called 'bullet LNBFs', and narrow feedhorns. None of these worked as well as the cutdown LNBFs, and that makes sense with theory. The bigger scalars of normal LNBFs will give better polar pattern control, and more cutoff towards the edges of the dish. This translates to higher signal quality and is easily measured. This might be even more important for you because of jamming/interference. The narrow LNBFs will have less rejection off-axis than the larger scalar units, and this will allow more interference to leak in.

Still any interference can only occur in line of sight at these frequencies (but it can be reflected), and if you shield the dish with suitable building materials, this should block the energy very efficiently. I would probably go so far as to recommend building a box around the dish, leaving only enough clearance for the dish to see the sky. After all where you are the geostationary satellites are likely 30-50 degrees above the horizon. The walls of the box should completely hide a view of the dish from the ground.

Anyway, best wishes for success with your project!

Thank you pendragon you really helped me a lot too.
As always I wish ALL THE BEST to everyone.

 

[AceB]

Use something like satbeams.com to check the footprints of the satellites you want to receive as well. You mentioned Astra 28E in an early post but apart from the ME beam on 2E you'll need something a lot (A LOT!!) bigger than a WF to receive anything useful.

 

[Hamed.Begloo]

Use something like satbeams.com to check the footprints of the satellites you want to receive as well. You mentioned Astra 28E in an early post but apart from the ME beam on 2E you'll need something a lot (A LOT!!) bigger than a WF to receive anything useful.

I think the ME coverage is enough for me:
http://satbeams.com/footprints?lat=0&lng=28&zoom=1&beam=7494&type=normal&name=Temporary

By the way, what does it mean by having 4 different Astra satellites at one position? Is it even possible?
And why they cover different amount of areas as they can cover more?

ALL THE BEST

 

[FaT Air]

what does it mean by having 4 different Astra satellites at one position?Is it even possible?

Sure, there'ss plenty of room within the "box" the Geostationary satellites move about in. IIRR (without looking it up) it's somewhere around 100 miles from the center of the 'box".

And why they cover different amount of areas as they can cover more?

Main reason - POWER. A wide 'beam' spreads the power, where a narrower beam concentrates it to a specific area. Meaning smaller dishes are required.

 

[Titanium]

Many orbital positions have multiple satellites co-located. The frequencies are coordinated so the do not interfere with each other.

Many services do not require wide area delivery. Directional antennas are used to shape and direct signals into specific regions. These shaped beams are called footprints. The directional delivery of the satellite signal allows the same frequencies to be reused into different regions, can provide higher signal strength, use less power or allow smaller dish size.

Edit: posted while Fat Air was replying with his excellent information.

 

[Hamed.Begloo]

Sure, there'ss plenty of room within the "box" the Geostationary satellites move about in. IIRR (without looking it up) it's somewhere around 100 miles from the center of the 'box".
Main reason - POWER. A wide 'beam' spreads the power, where a narrower beam concentrates it to a specific area. Meaning smaller dishes are required.

Many orbital positions have multiple satellites co-located. The frequencies are coordinated so the do not interfere with each other.

Many services do not require wide area delivery. Directional antennas are used to shape and direct signals into specific regions. These shaped beams are called footprints. The directional delivery of the satellite signal allows the same frequencies to be reused into different regions, can provide higher signal strength, use less power or allow smaller dish size.

Edit: posted while Fat Air was replying with his excellent information.

Thank you for your both great explanations.

ALL THE BEST

 

[AceB]

I think the ME coverage is enough for me:

The footprint may cover your location but you also need to check what is actually on it. Not a lot by the look of things. http://www.flysat.com/astra2e.php

 

[Hamed.Begloo]

The footprint may cover your location but you also need to check what is actually on it. Not a lot by the look of things. http://www.flysat.com/astra2e.php

All I want from it is:
1. BBC One/Two/Three/Four
2. National Geographic
3. Discovery
4. Animal Planet

ALL THE BEST