Searching for Sat. Signal, not all channels

[davew]

I'm sure this has been posted before, but I couldn't find anything in the previous posts. Help a newbie out

Just got my DirecTV, fairly happy, but have some issues.

I get 'searching for signal' on only certain channels that I have subscribed to, but not on all channels. I have checked transponder signals, all is well, most are 60+, sone in the 90's, so I would rule out a positioning issue. On the channels that say 'searching' the self test (or whatever the technical term is) read 0 on those channels, and only those channels. On channels that come in, I get good signals. I even checked channels I don't subscribe to, I get good signal on them also. Specifically if it matters, one channel that is non reponsive is the Scifi channel. Some channels also pop in and out, good picture to no picture, no inbetween where there is a fuzzy or bad picture. This is happening on all of my boxes.

I have 4 boxes on one round dish, sorry I don't have the model of the box, but it comes with the white universal remote if that helps. Thin black box, grey buttons, clear power switch backlit by a green LED.

Something is not adding up here. You either get a good signal that is applicable to all channels, regardless of subscription etc...

The signal should not be channel specific as I understand it, you either have a good signal or don't.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. E-mailing me is fine if you wish, or I will check back later.

Oh, and sorry if I sound stupid, is there supposed to be a clear plastic cap on the middle part (LNB ???, receiving point ?? whatever the tech term is) of the dish? I can understand for weather protection, but I dont think I ever saw it on other dishes. Did the tech forget to remove it or should it be there?

Don't be afraid to use technical terms, I am good with repairs and electronics, troubleshooting etc..

 

[ShadowEKU]

Sounds like a loose connection to me.

Yes the white part is supposed to be there. some are clear.

is this happening on all your boxes or just one?

what type of switch was installed. it should have 2 3 4 or 5 inputs and 4 or more outputs.

these are a good starting point.

welcome to Satellite guys

 

[davew]

Response

I assume loose connections outside the house. Anywhere in particular to look? I have checked all of the inside connections already, and the same issue on all 4 boxes seems like an outside signal input issue to me.

I'm not sure what the switch looks like, I assume a multi wire input outside ? Can you describe it to me briefly. I will be poking around outside when I get home.

If it matters, it was pouring rain during the installation. Could moisture in the connections be an issue ? I have some electrical contact cleaner (solvent based, I believe it displaces water), I would think this would be safe to use ? All wires and connectors are new obviously.

Thanks for the help, and I will be checking back for any other comments.

Dave

 

[uboatcmdr]

Here are some possible problems you system might be having and fixes for them:
If your getting "0" on say all the odd or all the even numbered transponders then I'd say you have a connection problem either at the LNB, grounding block (if one was used) or multiswitch input (it could also be the LNB itself, but I'd start with the connections first). Unscrew the connections and check to see if the braided shielding (outside wire) has a strand or two wrapped around the stinger (center wire), this will cause that wire to short out. Also check to see that stinger extends slightly past or is atleast even with the outside edge of the connector. As you check each outside connection look for corrosion, these coax cables carry a 13v-18v current from the receivers to the multiswitch and then on to the LNB, if water got into them at the time of installation then it could start corroding rather rapidly.
If you do not have any problems with the lines then call D* out for a service call. If your system was installed fairly recently (within the past 30-90 days) then they should stand behind their work.
If you are only getting "0" on two or three transponders and the rest are reading from the low 60's to say the low 90's with the majority being 70 or below then the problem is with dish alignment, placement, or there might be too many obstructions (i.e. trees or buildings) in the way.

 

[davidrumm]

The multiswitch will look like a small connection box with 2 or 3 inputs and 4, 8, 16 outputs. Most likely will be 3 in with 4 out. Check the cables from that to the dish first since all receivers are affected. If that does not help try swapping the 2 input cables and see if problem changes. If it does change then has to be cable or LNB on the dish. If problem stays same then sounds like a problem in the multiswitch. By the way your signals should be in the 80's or 90's unless is a spot beam which can be 0.

 

[davew]

I don't believe the transponder signals go from 0 to ok from odd to even. By ok I mean that vast majority of them in the 80+ range, there are something like 32 found in my system. I'll check all of the connections outside, hopefully this will be an easy fix. Strange to me why a possible short at the end of the connector would cause only some channels to have issues. No issue with odd/even channels, its sort of random, but I think its in the 200+ range.

As far as the grounding block, the tech attached it to my electric meter, just on the panel of it itself. Last time I checked, a ground needs to be bare metal to metal contact. Could an electric meter itself be a signal issue ? I'm sure there is some electromagnetic field created within it, whether that affects D* (I gather thats the shorthand for DirecTV), I dont know. I'm not even sure what type of a signal it receives. EMF will affect some signals but will have no effect on others.

The tech said he would gladly come out and check it out, but at the time of the install, the weather was horrible, and the issues could have been related to that. There is a big tree just off to the edge of the dish, but since my transponder signals are decent, I would rule positioning out as I said before. How many transponders should I have reading at an 80+ level to have good service ? I think I have probably 10 or so, others are close, 70's and high 60's, many are well into the 90's.
I appreciate the help for a newbie

 

[Newshawk]

Are the transponders with 0s any of the following? TX 4, 12, 18, 20, 26 or 28? If they are, then a very low (or abnormally high) or 0 signal is normal. These are spot beam transponders used to deliver local channels to different parts of the country. If the antenna is not pointed towards your part of the country, then you won't "see" the signal.

 

[davew]

So if I am pointed ata transponder that is not a part of my local channel package, it could cause issues ?

Can't tell you right now, I'm at work but I will check into that also. I could call the tech out, but to be kind, he is pretty green, he said he had only been on the job about a month. Personally, I think I have more knowledge than he does from learning some things here. He seemed to be having a terrible time getting my receivers set up. Granted it was raining terribly, but it can't be that hard to align a dish. Either you have signal or you don't as I see it.

I mean no disrespect to the tech, he did a nice, neat install but I think I'd rather tackle some of the issues myself. Its not exactly rocket science checking coax connections and aligning a dish. It's easy to align the dish in my house, the tech did it this way. He physically rotated the TV while the receiver was in the setup mode so he could be view it outside the window. The dish is maybe 8 feet up on a ladder with a pretty clear view to the TV through a window. He simply adjusted it a bit until he got good TX levels. Are their signal meters they use simply just a fancy voltmeter ? or do they indicate something else about the signal.

I am also going to check the voltages, 12-18 Volts DC between the pin and the jacket (or connector) coming off the dish right ? Shoud I be checking this voltage for the signal to the receivers in each room also ? I infer that this is indicative of a pretty decent signal between the LNB (heh, I'm learning the tech speak already) and the end of the wire. another thing I was thinking, disconnect the cables on each end, check for continuity via a multimeter. Shouldn't be any resistance, infinity would be expected. Anything else would indicate a cable issue whether it is a grounding of the pin to jacket, or a defect in the cable. I've done sone electronics work in the past, along with electrical system diagnoses in my old cars so using a multimeter the right way can be very useful.

 

[davidrumm]

The voltage would be from the receivers and not the dish. The receiver sends up the voltage, 12v for odd trans and 18v for even trans. This determines the odd even part of the signal. The receiver then looks for the correct frequency on either the odd or even to pull a specific transponder. TX 4, 12, 18, 20, 26 or 28 are spot beams and only beam to certain areas of the country for locals to those areas. It is more important to make sure you have a good signal on all the other transponders.

 

[uboatcmdr]

So if I am pointed ata transponder that is not a part of my local channel package, it could cause issues ?

Can't tell you right now, I'm at work but I will check into that also. I could call the tech out, but to be kind, he is pretty green, he said he had only been on the job about a month. Personally, I think I have more knowledge than he does from learning some things here. He seemed to be having a terrible time getting my receivers set up. Granted it was raining terribly, but it can't be that hard to align a dish. Either you have signal or you don't as I see it.

I mean no disrespect to the tech, he did a nice, neat install but I think I'd rather tackle some of the issues myself. Its not exactly rocket science checking coax connections and aligning a dish. It's easy to align the dish in my house, the tech did it this way. He physically rotated the TV while the receiver was in the setup mode so he could be view it outside the window. The dish is maybe 8 feet up on a ladder with a pretty clear view to the TV through a window. He simply adjusted it a bit until he got good TX levels. Are their signal meters they use simply just a fancy voltmeter ? or do they indicate something else about the signal.

I am also going to check the voltages, 12-18 Volts DC between the pin and the jacket (or connector) coming off the dish right ? Shoud I be checking this voltage for the signal to the receivers in each room also ? I infer that this is indicative of a pretty decent signal between the LNB (heh, I'm learning the tech speak already) and the end of the wire. another thing I was thinking, disconnect the cables on each end, check for continuity via a multimeter. Shouldn't be any resistance, infinity would be expected. Anything else would indicate a cable issue whether it is a grounding of the pin to jacket, or a defect in the cable. I've done sone electronics work in the past, along with electrical system diagnoses in my old cars so using a multimeter the right way can be very useful.

If your not having odd/even problems and the transponders signal strength is very random that pretty much rules out a wiring or electrical problem. You saying that the tech was somewhat green leads me to believe he did not align the dish as well as he could. Might even be due to the tree you say is near the dish. It is possible to still have a few transponders getting up into the 90's (usually the spot beams for your area) and have all the others falling well below that. The signal strength for transponders 1 & 2 should atleast be in the upper 80's to mid 90's.
I'd call D* and request a senior tech come out and check the system. As I said in a previous post there should be no charge as your system was only recently installed. Just be sure to have them note the workorder that you need a "senior tech" or even a "lead tech".

 

[davew]

Heh, I think I could do a better job myself

I may give it a go myself since I don't feel like waiting. I'm sure it can be frustrating and tedious, but I'm used to that with other electronic devices I have worked on.

Hard for me to believe an alignment issue would cause certain channels to drop out, but I am new to this.

 

[uboatcmdr]

Heh, I think I could do a better job myself

I may give it a go myself since I don't feel like waiting. I'm sure it can be frustrating and tedious, but I'm used to that with other electronic devices I have worked on.

Hard for me to believe an alignment issue would cause certain channels to drop out, but I am new to this.

Like I said, if your not having odd/even problems, the channel loss is random and your experiencing the loss of the same channels on all receivers then it is probably due to dish alignment or obstructions. Weak signal strength on some of the transponders can cause the channels to constantly come in then go right out. They may only appear for a few seconds at a time or not at all. Wiring problems if affecting all the receivers would not give you random channel loss. You'd either lose all the channels, the odds or the evens. Same with the LNB, unless the LNB has gotten moisture inside the casing itself and that can only happen if the cap over the LNB is either cracked or has been removed for a length of time. But if that were the case the channels would come in & out as the weather warmed up & cooled down (we are talking moisture, not a flood of water inside the LNB).
I don't recall your saying exactly which dish you've got. Is the dish a round (single LNB) or oval (three LNB's)?
It would be my guess that you are getting all or most of your locals, maybe CNN and a few news channels, but channels like SCFI, TBS or TNN are giving you the searching for satellite message. The locals come in on spot beams and those will be the transponders you are getting the 90+ signal strength on. The transponders for my locals usually have a signal strength of 99 or 100.
If you want to tackle this yourself then go into the menu system on the receiver closest to the dish and bring up the signal meter for transponder #1. Have someone watch the screen and rely the numbers to you as you make slight slow adjustments to the dish (its a good idea to mark the current alignment on the dish with a Sharpie before making any adjustments that way you can always return to the original settings if need be). Just remember "slow small adjustments" is the key here as the signal meter on the reciver takes a few seconds to process any changes to the signal strength. Start with moving the dish side to side. Once you have the strongest possible signal side to side then try adjusting the elevation.
Trust me from what you have described alignment is most likely your issue and it is by far the simplest thing to fix. If you have problems with obstructions then that complicates matters and may require that the dish be relocated or the obstruction (if possible) be removed. Seeing that your installer was a rookie it could be that he mounted the dish in a spot that has it aimed right at a big tree or building.
If you were in the north Alabama area I'd offer to come fix the problem for you at no charge.

 

[davidrumm]

Cable connections can affect only a few channels. I had 1 filament of the shield touching the center pin on a connector and lost 8 transponders in a row not the even odd transponder problem. So this problem can be either cable connections or an obstruction issue. A realignment issue will affect all transponders just some more than others.

 

[davew]

Ok, so I have two options to consider, didn't get to it last night.
The tree isn't an option, it's my neighbors

 

[davew]

Ok, I will end this thread by relaying what the problem was now that it was fixed. Those of you who said connector issues were right.

I took apart the connections, starting with the feed right out of the satellite. The 13V IIRC side, had a stinger that was not long enough to be making a good connection. No spare frays in the jacket wires, but simply not a long enough stinger. I cut the connector off, re-stripped the wire with the proper lengths etc, and put one of my el-cheapo connectors on temporarily just to see if it fixed the problem. Problem solved.

I did call the tech out, he lives in the area and I have his direct number, its a locally authorized installer, and had him replace the connector with the professional, weatherproof type that should be used. Voila, I am happy, good signals on practically every odd/even TX out of the 20+ I checked. I get all channels, and no longer have the picture go in and out.

I could have done this job myself, but it was a free install. I wasn't upset at the tech since he was battling a fierce rainstorm, partly in the dark when he did the install. I can understand overlooking a little thing like that when you are getting poured on and can't see very well. It was a stupid mistake, but considering I had the system installed on Saturday, and it was up and running great by Wednesday, I'm not too upset.

Thanks for the tips everyone.