Should I have any hope for better PQ?

[salvatorep]

My HD-TIVO is hoked through HDMI to my TV and tomorrow I will make some tests using the S-VIDEO to see if anything change.

S-Video from the HD TiVo to the 65" RPTV was markedly worse than HDMI, but that only says alot for the poor quality of the S-Video image.

Im thinking of taking one of my SD DirecTV receivers and hooking it up to the 65" in an effort to narrow down something being wrong with the HD TiVo. Should that test yield better video quality, what does that really tell me?

 

[Questioner]

So your saying that you actually advise people to consider only buying plasma? and only buying ED? I have to say I disagree greatly with both.

If you have directv and want the best of both worlds now, yes an edtv plasma is the best option. There are no widely available edtvs in other forms besides plasmas, and there is nothing else that will give you as good of a standard def picture and hd lite picture with directv. I would not recommend the edtv as much for those with a good OTA hd reception or a cable service with better HD.

You could get a smaller lcd hdtv, and the pic will look better because its smaller, but you might as well go for a bigger edtv.

 

[charper1]

That may be, but the cable version of the same channels is a LOT better.

Thats because it stays in the local loop and they usually have a much better delivery of the original.

If you have directv and want the best of both worlds now, yes an edtv plasma is the best option. There are no widely available edtvs in other forms besides plasmas, and there is nothing else that will give you as good of a standard def picture and hd lite picture with directv. I would not recommend the edtv as much for those with a good OTA hd reception or a cable service with better HD. You could get a smaller lcd hdtv, and the pic will look better because its smaller, but you might as well go for a bigger edtv.

And then turn right around and buy another TV soon to get higher than 480P? waste of money. I'll stick with spending $2200 ONCE for a true 119" HD FPTV.

 

[Questioner]

And you can stick with awful sdtv which will dominate for a while longer, I don't think people realize how much better big screen sd is on an edtv plasma with just s video.

You won't have to buy a new tv, an edtv scales to do the higher hdtv resolutions and you can select these resolutions with the hd receivers and it will work fine , 720 for example does look noticeably better than 480 for example despite the fact that 480 is the native edtv resolution, you can see this with the xbox 360 too. So far anyway, even in 1080 there isn't that big difference between the panasonic edtv and hdtv unless you are like 5 feet from the set.

Since directv is very slow to roll out better hd or any hd compared to cable, I have no hesitation recommending an edtv with them. You will not benefit more in the next 4 or 5 years by the slightly better higher hd resolutions than you will with the better sd picture which will still be around for many years to come, of course that's just my opinion but one supported by many experts in the field. Sadly, hdtvs are a waste of money compared to edtvs as far as directv is concerned, even with cable and antenna you aren't making much use of its advantages, but its still a wiser investment in those cases.

It's amazing how clueless some people still are about edtv sets.

 

[slimoli]

My HD Panasonic plasma yields a better SD picture than my DLP 73" Mitsubishi but my original point is how Directv picture is bad compared to my free analog cable and my previous Dish Network setup. I always tought that analog cable would be the worst possible signal but D* is even worse. Again, no question about HD sets working much better with HD signal than SD , just a protest against D* hd-LITE and terrible SD picture. I really hope that soon we can hear some good news about better picture from D*.

 

[charper1]

And you can stick with awful sdtv which will dominate for a while longer, I don't think people realize how much better big screen sd is on an edtv plasma with just s video.

You won't have to buy a new tv, an edtv scales to do the higher hdtv resolutions and you can select these resolutions with the hd receivers and it will work fine , 720 for example does look noticeably better than 480 for example despite the fact that 480 is the native edtv resolution, you can see this with the xbox 360 too. So far anyway, even in 1080 there isn't that big difference between the panasonic edtv and hdtv unless you are like 5 feet from the set.

Since directv is very slow to roll out better hd or any hd compared to cable, I have no hesitation recommending an edtv with them. You will not benefit more in the next 4 or 5 years by the slightly better higher hd resolutions than you will with the better sd picture which will still be around for many years to come, of course that's just my opinion but one supported by many experts in the field. Sadly, hdtvs are a waste of money compared to edtvs as far as directv is concerned, even with cable and antenna you aren't making much use of its advantages, but its still a wiser investment in those cases.

It's amazing how clueless some people still are about edtv sets.

OK so answer these comparative questions about your EDTV:

1. What make & model / diag size?

2. What was the retail cost?

3. What resolutions will it display?

4. When you try to view a 720p or 1080i source from cable, 4DTV, DBS what resolution are you displaying?

And a general question: How is 720P or 1080I on "SLIGHTLY IMPROVED" over 480P?

 

[Questioner]

OK so answer these comparative questions about your EDTV:

1. What make & model / diag size?

I recommend any of the panasonic edvts, 37 or 42 inch, or the 42 inch zenith/lg edtv panel, these seem to have the highest praise. If you want a larger screen, hdtv whether plasma or some other technology is the better choice since it needs to be bigger to really be true hd anyway.

2. What was the retail cost?

I bought a zenith/LG electronics 42 inch edtv on clearance at best buy for 1150 a while ago, generally though there is a significant difference between the prices for edtv and hdtv, but you still need to look for a good deal. And remember the model is everything, don't get a cheap edtv or hdtv.

3. What resolutions will it display?

EDTVs display 480p natively. But they also have scalers built in to display all current hd resolutions that a typical hd model would. Higher resolutions will look noticeably better than 480 and standard tv on edtv models even though its not truely displaying all the detail an hdtv set would. You can choose any resolution you want from the source, if available and it will display fine on an edtv.

4. When you try to view a 720p or 1080i source from cable, 4DTV, DBS what resolution are you displaying?

That's a matter of debate, many contend it's still 480 on an edtv set no matter what you are trying to display, but again, the image looks noticeably more detailed with higher resolutions with edtv scaling, albeit not as good as it would look on a true hd set.

And a general question: How is 720P or 1080I on "SLIGHTLY IMPROVED" over 480P?

That's not exactly what I meant to say. 720 or 1080 is a large improvement over 480 on any set, but when you factor in the ability for an edtv to scale these resolutions, the difference is not as great. You probably see a bigger jump on hdtv sets from 720 to 1080 on hdtvs than edtvs, though both look somewhat better on hdtvs particularly from within 6 or so feet.

.

 

[JustBob]

And you can stick with awful sdtv which will dominate for a while longer, I don't think people realize how much better big screen sd is on an edtv plasma with just s video.

You won't have to buy a new tv, an edtv scales to do the higher hdtv resolutions and you can select these resolutions with the hd receivers and it will work fine , 720 for example does look noticeably better than 480 for example despite the fact that 480 is the native edtv resolution, you can see this with the xbox 360 too. So far anyway, even in 1080 there isn't that big difference between the panasonic edtv and hdtv unless you are like 5 feet from the set.

Since directv is very slow to roll out better hd or any hd compared to cable, I have no hesitation recommending an edtv with them. You will not benefit more in the next 4 or 5 years by the slightly better higher hd resolutions than you will with the better sd picture which will still be around for many years to come, of course that's just my opinion but one supported by many experts in the field. Sadly, hdtvs are a waste of money compared to edtvs as far as directv is concerned, even with cable and antenna you aren't making much use of its advantages, but its still a wiser investment in those cases.

It's amazing how clueless some people still are about edtv sets.

I'm waiting for Questioner to come back and say "April Fools!"

-JustBob

 

[charper1]

You won't have to buy a new tv, an edtv scales to do the higher hdtv resolutions and you can select these resolutions with the hd receivers and it will work fine , 720 for example does look noticeably better than 480 for example despite the fact that 480 is the native edtv resolution, you can see this with the xbox 360 too. So far anyway, even in 1080 there isn't that big difference between the panasonic edtv and hdtv unless you are like 5 feet from the set.

So why are all the companies and networks investing in HD? Why are we all worried over HD vs HD-Lite? I am just confused by the above logic, is all.

 

[Questioner]

Directv is only one portion of the hdtv viewing market, and one that is suffering now in terms of quanity and quantity of hd. As I said, if you get more and better quality hd from antenna or cable, then a true hd set would probably be a wiser choice. This is only my advice if you are stuck with directv only for hd and are unhappy with the standard picture.


Companies are investing in hd because its the future no doubt, but a future that is farther away for directv subscribers unfortunately. At this point, though with any provider, the advantages of hdtvs over edtvs has been minimal, especially if you consider most dvd watching (also current dvds usually look even better on edtvs than hdtvs) and gaming is done at 480 or lower, how soon hdtvs will be fully taken advantage of is the matter for debate.

 

[charper1]

I think the biggest advantage of not promoting EDTV is that we need HDTV to proliferate the market (sales) so content providers will be compelled to speed up their conversion and or introduction of more and better content. Having EDTV saturate the market and undercutting HDTV sales only hinders that process of improvement by supplying one more excuse for people to not need HD thus another wrench in the works of providers to speed up or improve.

Directv is only one portion of the hdtv viewing market, and one that is suffering now in terms of quanity and quantity of hd. As I said, if you get more and better quality hd from antenna or cable, then a true hd set would probably be a wiser choice. This is only my advice if you are stuck with directv only for hd and are unhappy with the standard picture.


Companies are investing in hd because its the future no doubt, but a future that is farther away for directv subscribers unfortunately. At this point, though with any provider, the advantages of hdtvs over edtvs has been minimal, especially if you consider most dvd watching (also current dvds usually look even better on edtvs than hdtvs) and gaming is done at 480 or lower, how soon hdtvs will be fully taken advantage of is the matter for debate.

 

[Questioner]

They can promote whatever they want, meanwhile I will be enjoying decent standard tv on my edtv plasma, Im not going to sacrifice its advantages just to help spread a technology. I would be fairly satisfied with the progress with cable and OTA, its just directv that's lagging behind.

 

[FlyingJ]

Questioner I really hope you are happy with your ED Plasma, really. But, I do look at as "ignorance is bliss" First off, you can debate the ED or HD all day. I personally see no advantage at all to a plasma set except for the fact that it is not a piece of furniture, which is a huge advantage to be sure. Pic wise, ummm no, just a whole lot of money, and the ED version to me is for someone that wants the Caddy but can only afford the Buick. You spend that kind of money, you don't want "decent", of course this is coming form a projector guy.

 

[JustBob]

also current dvds usually look even better on edtvs than hdtvs.

I don't see how you can say that DVDs can look better on an EDTV vs an HDTV. I might agree to saying that some content on an EDTV will look as good as on an HDTV. But I don't see how it could be better. I can see your argument for not paying the price to go from EDTV to HDTV being there may be only a small advantage. I don't agree with it, but I can see your point.

I like the Buick vs. Cadilac analogy. I think that is fitting. It's all what you're willing to pay for.

-JustBob

 

[Brewer4]

I like the Buick vs. Cadilac analogy. I think that is fitting. It's all what you're willing to pay for.

-JustBob

Good point. Since they are GM cars, they share underpinnings or parts. EDTV and HDTV share pieces but in the end, there are discernable differences. Not that there is anything wrong with a Buick, but if you can float it, I would take the Cadi first.

 

[Sean Mota]

It is very funny this argument abut ED plasma. I have a 42" ED Plasma Samsung, a 60" Sony LCD and a 42" DLP Samsung. Are you going to tell me that the ED Plasma TV looks as good as the LCD or DLP, you have to be kidding. NO WAY. The only thing that looks better on the Plasma is the SD channels just that. DVD or HD the DLP or LCD will win all the time.

 

[FlyingJ]

As I said, if you want to hang it on the wall go plasma, if not LCD or DLP, my preference...106 inch HD projector! That said it was nice to hear it from someone that actually has them.

 

[slimoli]

Guys, thanks for the info on EDTV X HDTV but this thread is about Directv and its poor picture quality, REGARDLESS of our setup. I compare Directv with cable and Dishnet with the SAME set and always find D* as the worst picture.

 

[logixrat]

Yes slimoli, my 55" SDTV is a RPTV. Reflecting back those 3+ years when I had Dish Network the first time and it was good, that was also the time I bought my current big screen.

Before settling on the 55" SDTV, I had actually invested and brought home a 55" Mitsu HDTV set. I forget the model numbers now, it's been too long. Anyhow, I hooked it up to my standard E* receivers and it looked like dog poop. So bad in fact, I returned the Mitsu and ended up buying the 55" SDTV I currently have.

As much as I liked the HDTV concept and 16:9 ratio, I just couldn't deal with the "compression" issue and stretched/fat people views I got with my HDTV set. Plus it cost alot more. So I returned the Mitsu, got a refund and bought my current TV. I paid less than $1k for my 55" SDTV with every intent of upgrading in 4-5 years when HDTV was adapted as the "standard".

IMO we are still several years from this happening. It's actually more like a bastardized time with HD and SD running together the way they are, which makes it a horrible time to invest in new equipment. Obviously we all want the best for the long term, but unfortunately I think that will yield a crappier picture in the short term until HD is the standard.

loxixrat

Thank you for your comments. I presume your 55" SD TV is a RPTV, right? This is a much better option to SD than my Mitsubishi 73927. Your comment that D* looks better than E* for SD makes me wonder if the problem I have is not the HD-TIVO receiver. I have never used any other type of D* receiver to compare the SD picture but I remember that when I had Dish the SD picture from my HD receiver was much worse than the picture produced by a SD-only receiver. My HD-TIVO is hoked through HDMI to my TV and tomorrow I will make some tests using the S-VIDEO to see if anything change.

 

[charper1]

Just FYI there is no movement to make HD the standard, just digital and digital can still include plenty of 4:3 material.