Steve Jobs: "Good artists copy, great artists steal" (1 Viewer)

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jayn_j

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I am a good engineer.

I never invent what I can adapt. I never adapt what I can use directly ("steal").

IMHO, the recent trend to lawsuits simply hurts everyone. Back in the day, we all held a fistful of patents and used them as trading material and protection against threats. Kind of you show me yours and I'll go and show you mine. It worked for years.

The current patent thing is making lawyers rich and simply being used to keep new players out of the game. However, the patent office and often the courts have decided that the invention is worthy. We don't have the data to do a good job of second guessing (not that that has ever stopped us :D )
 

TheForce

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Steve Jobs: "Good artists copy, great artists steal"

The title of this thread is false and maliciously misleading, maybe even libelous. Listen to the You Tube video clip. You titled this as though Steve Jobs said this.

Steve actually said: "Picasso had a saying, Good artists copy, great artists steal."

Do you know who Pablo Picasso is?

In addition, one has to observe the entire interview to know the complete context in which Jobs had made the Picasso quote. It did have to do with stealing ideas. It had to do with Jobs and team being invited to Xerox- Parc to see their concept of the mouse, network computing, and a graphical user interface. Jobs was describing the historical process they followed to begin development of the Lisa and eventually the Mac. He never hid the fact in the interview that the Mouse, and GUI was originally invented by Xerox, but then stated he intended to take the concept from Xerox and improve it to be usable and elegant. In other parts of his interview, he said that Xerox could have become the next IBM, the Microsoft, as a world leader of computers for everyday people, but they were not interested. Rather, they were interested in what Apple could do with their idea. It was the purpose of the Xerox invitation. Steve didn't steal the GUI and mouse. IMO, it was a gift from Xerox.

It's so sad that people who hate have to resort to fiction ( a.k.a. lies) in order to further their mission. Steve Jobs is not perfect, IMO, so lets try to stick to the facts and maintain one's credibility.


Never let facts get in the way of your true purpose of Steve Jobs bashing. If the truth doesn't fit your mission, just lie about it and most people will blindly accept your lie. Repeat it often enough and it will become "fact" But the God's truth is, it's just all Bullsh!t!
 

diogen

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WTF?
Care to listen to the 39 seconds before pontificating this sh!t?
Picasso's saying is claimed to be the motto of Apple activity.
"We have been shameless about stealing great ideas..."

It's so sad that people who hate have to resort to fiction...
Or twist facts. Very much so.
And your post is another proof of it...

Diogen.

EDIT:
What is it with your middle of the night Bullsh!t posts?
Maybe you should consider turning this advice to yourself?
diogen- please put me on ignore. Please! I don't like the idea that you become ill every time you read one of my posts. I feel bad for ya!
 
Last edited:

TheForce

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Care to listen to the 39 seconds before pontificating this sh!t?
Picasso's saying is claimed to be the motto of Apple activity.
"We have been shameless about stealing great ideas..."

You mean his exact quote: "We have always been shameless about stealing great ideas."

Didn't catch where he said it was " Apple's motto" I was always under the impression Apple claimed it's motto was "Think Different" Somewhat incorrect grammar but that's their official motto.

But first off you didn't even mention this originally and if we took that exact quote out of context it would seem to support your hate campaign much better than the Picasso misquote. That Steve Jobs' philosophy is to steal other people's ideas and profit from them. However, putting it back into context of what Steve was saying, we understand that improving on a good idea to make it great and desirable is what Apple does. What he is explaining is that he recognizes that Apple was not the originator of all things sold at Apple. BUT, Apple has great designers who are also great computer people who simply improve on the idea to make it great. If you follow the line of questioning from other You Tube clips of that interview, you would have seen that the topic had to do with his explanation of where the Mac's origin stemmed from, ref Xerox-Parc invitation.

As a side note- please understand that the USPO recognizes not just fundamental concept invention, but also improvement invention for patent. Most patents issued are improvements on existing ideas.


diogen- I don't think you are maliciously attempting to slander Steve Jobs with proliferating anything negative you can dig up on him and Apple. I just think you are on a quest to find junk on the internet that supports your prejudices against him and the company. The problem I see is you jump the gun on the internet bloggers who may offer fodder for your hate of him. Then you repost before digging into it to see if what was posted by others is true, accurate, and not something taken out of context. It didn't take me long to click on the other parts of that interview in other adjacent You Tube clips that led up to the referenced clip to understand the context had to do with the history of the Mac and Xerox-Parc invitation. You could have done the same and unless you tried to be devious, you wouldn't have posted it the way you did, nor snapped back with such anger. All, I'm asking is do a little more homework with an open mind before you put something up that makes you appear you're on a hate mission.
 

diogen

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I stand by what I said in this thread and will do it again if needed.
If you don't get it, it's not my fault. My condolences.

If you need definition of BS, this is it
Steve didn't steal the GUI and mouse. IMO, it was a gift from Xerox.

Diogen.
 

TheForce

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I trust your facts are correct Vurbano, but I doubt Apple is considered an organized crime organization. LOL! I wonder why the suit was lost. Could it be that the case was lost because you can't charge someone with theft of property when you give them the property. I'll need to look this up and read the details. But if correct, and they did "steal" the technology, and got away with it, then I stand corrected in my opinion that Xerox wasn't violated. In this case I would have to say that Jobs may have lied in his interview.

As an aside- recall MS, namely Bill Gates claimed to have stolen the GUI and mouse from Apple in a similar show and tell tour at Apple. Read his biography. It was also in the movie.
 

jayn_j

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I trust your facts are correct Vurbano, but I doubt Apple is considered an organized crime organization. LOL! I wonder why the suit was lost. Could it be that the case was lost because you can't charge someone with theft of property when you give them the property. I'll need to look this up and read the details. But if correct, and they did "steal" the technology, and got away with it, then I stand corrected in my opinion that Xerox wasn't violated. In this case I would have to say that Jobs may have lied in his interview.

As an aside- recall MS, namely Bill Gates claimed to have stolen the GUI and mouse from Apple in a similar show and tell tour at Apple. Read his biography. It was also in the movie.

Just to support your position a bit, Don.

I was part of HPs Santa Rosa division back in 1981. We were given a presentation and then a loan of a Xerox PARC system with intention of adapting the ideas for complex instrumentation uses, i.e. spectrum and network analyzers. Xerox was actively promoting the technology for widespread adoption back then.

Just before that, I was part of the desktop computer Division and we developed and introduced the 9826 in 1980. That machine had an RPG knob that would scroll data in one axis and the other when the shift key was pressed. Kind of a 1 dimensional mouse. This was patented at the time, so the concepts were definitely out there.
 

TheForce

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vurbano said:
I agree and call "BS" as well. Xerox tried to sue apple for this theft in 1989. the whole company was built on a crime.

Finally had some time to check this out. Here's the facts:

It is true that xerox tried to sue apple for copyright infringement of the GUI screen on the Lisa and Mac but the court threw the case out for a variety of legal reasons.
First of all xerox could not produce documentation they tried to protect their GUI screen layout with copyright.
Second, xerox could not produce a like screen look being sold by Apple since Apple had redesigned the screen look. Can't copyright an idea, just the image.
Third, xerox failed to file suit in a timely fashion and could not produce evidence it tried to protect it's property prior to suit filing.
The judge also felt that xerox actually made effort to offer their system was open for further development which Apple took advantage of. He asked xerox to show proof they tried to license the system. Actually, xerox did try to license it to Apple but only after 3 years of their use. Apple stonewalled xerox.

There were other legal reasons but these were the main ones.

I also found reference to a response by xerox in that they claimed they only filed this suit because Apple had begun to sue Microsoft and hp. For the GUI, which xerox felt was originally theirs.
 

mperdue

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I also found reference to a response by xerox in that they claimed they only filed this suit because Apple had begun to sue Microsoft and hp. For the GUI, which xerox felt was originally theirs.
The basic concern was that the suit covered "look and feel" of the product. Xerox felt that if the look and feel could be copyrighted then they should be the ones to to hold that copyright. They filed their suit after the statute of limitations had run out.
 

vurbano

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Id say that GUI was the only real thing making Apple different from anyone else, i.e IBM. And I did say "tried to sue". The company was built on a theft of the GUI from Xerox
 

TheForce

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The interesting thing about this was that Sun Microsystems contacted Xerox and offered them a royalty to license the technology years after Xerox gave the technology to Apple. They signed the deal with Sun and then when Apple tried to sue Microsoft and HP for using the same look and feel, Xerox decided to go after Apple. But the key here is the timing and the offer.
You can't give away an idea then come back years later and expect to collect rent for the idea because you got lucky and were able to rent the same to someone else.
Vurbano, If I gave you a gift and several years later tried to get you to pay me back rent for that gift and you refused, would you say you stole from me?
Fact is we can all view this the way we want, but the facts are in the ruling of the court and that is final.
 

mperdue

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The interesting thing about this was that Sun Microsystems contacted Xerox and offered them a royalty to license the technology years after Xerox gave the technology to Apple. They signed the deal with Sun and then when Apple tried to sue Microsoft and HP for using the same look and feel, Xerox decided to go after Apple. But the key here is the timing and the offer.
You can't give away an idea then come back years later and expect to collect rent for the idea because you got lucky and were able to rent the same to someone else.
Vurbano, If I gave you a gift and several years later tried to get you to pay me back rent for that gift and you refused, would you say you stole from me?
Fact is we can all view this the way we want, but the facts are in the ruling of the court and that is final.

They really didn't give it away. Xerox was permitted to buy 100,000 pre-IPO shares of Apple. In exchange for this, Apple got the right to examine and adapt the technology to their computer products. Less than a year latter that 1 million dollar investment was worth 17.6 million. That's not too bad for a technology that they didn't know what to do with.

Xerox sued Apple to insure that, in the event that Apple won their suit against Microsoft, Xerox would be the owners of the look and feel copyright. Their lawsuit was dismissed.
 

Hart5150

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mperdue said:
They really didn't give it away. Xerox was permitted to buy 100,000 pre-IPO shares of Apple. In exchange for this, Apple got the right to examine and adapt the technology to their computer products. Less than a year latter that 1 million dollar investment was worth 17.6 million. That's not too bad for a technology that they didn't know what to do with.

Xerox sued Apple to insure that, in the event that Apple won their suit against Microsoft, Xerox would be the owners of the look and feel copyright. Their lawsuit was dismissed.

Thanks for the truth. Unlike the crap from diogen and vurbano.
 
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