Still searching for that first bird...

[phileFriendly]

Well, after jumping into the world of FTA because it sounds so cool and easy, I have dropped money on various cables, a receiver, and an LNB, plus many hours pointing the dish here and there looking for a sign of life, and I have yet to actually find anything

My goal: I'm trying to get CCTV on G3C for the in-laws. I know where it is, I've waved my dish around the area a bunch. I've bought a satellite finder and a new LNB (I got an old analog system for free), plus a digital receiver. But I'm stuck, and have some questions, which will hopefully help me narrow down what I work on.

1) How important is the tilt of the LNB? Is it really important? Even if I'm pointing the opposite of how it should be, will I still get a signal? I'm currently ballparking it for where it should be, is this good enough?

2) How exact do I have to get the dish to point at the satellite? I'm panning across about 30 degrees horizontally just to be absolutely certain, and not seeing doodly, but is it possible I'm going too fast? Same question for vertical angle.

3) I just got a .3dB LNB off of eBay, which is a Universal LNB. With my Viacast 2000, do I set the LNB power to 18, or 18 + 22K?

4) Is there a really strong satellite that would be a recommended easy one to get just to make sure I'm doing the right things? My zipcode is 98052 (near Seattle, WA).

5) The cheapo satellite finder I got off eBay (an SF95) doesn't seem to vary in intensity of sound no matter how I point it, unless I aim it at a solid object like my house. Basically I'm dialing it up until it is about at "5" power with a hum, then moving the dish around looking for love, and waiting for the power to spike up. Am I doing something wrong? Also, can I leave that meter between the dish and the receiver and still have the receiver able to pick up a signal, or do I need to disconnect it everytime I want to do another scan with the viacast?

Thanks for any tips!

 

[PSB]

Hello and WELCOME to the SatelliteGuys.US FTA forum

I would use G10R @ 123w as a true south satellite.

                       Redmond, WA 98052
           Latitude 47° 40.308'N Longitude 122° 7.392'W

                         Sat Name Sat Lng Az(t) Az(m)    El  Skew
-----------------------------------------------------------------
                       Telstar 12   15.0W 257.2 238.4 -19.6 -41.0
                                 
                     Intelsat 901   18.0W 259.5 240.7 -17.7 -41.5
                                 
                     Intelsat 603   20.0W 261.0 242.2 -16.5 -41.7
                                 
                            NSS 7   22.0W 262.5 243.7 -15.2 -41.9
                                 
                     Intelsat 905   24.5W 264.3 245.6 -13.6 -42.1
                                 
                     Intelsat 907   27.5W 266.6 247.8 -11.6 -42.2
                                 
                   Hispasat 1C/1D   30.0W 268.4 249.7 -10.0 -42.3
                                 
                     Intelsat 801   31.5W 269.5 250.8  -9.0 -42.3
                                 
                     Intelsat 903   34.5W  91.8  73.0  -7.0 -42.3
                                 
              AMC 12 & Telstar 11   37.5W  94.0  75.2  -5.0 -42.2
                                 
                          NSS 806   40.5W  96.2  77.4  -3.1 -42.0
                                 
                        PAS 6B/3R   43.0W  98.1  79.3  -1.4 -41.8
                                 
                           PAS 1R   45.0W  99.6  80.8  -0.1 -41.6
                                 
                     Intelsat 705   50.0W 103.4  84.6   3.2 -40.9
                                 
                     Intelsat 707   53.0W 105.7  87.0   5.2 -40.4
                                 
                     Intelsat 805   55.5W 107.7  89.0   6.9 -39.9
                                 
                            PAS 9   58.0W 109.7  91.0   8.5 -39.3
                                 
                         Amazonas   61.0W 112.2  93.4  10.4 -38.6
                                 
           EchoStar 3 & Rainbow 1   61.5W 112.6  93.8  10.7 -38.4
                                 
                 Estrela do Sul 1   63.0W 113.8  95.1  11.7 -38.0
                                 
                     Brasilsat B2   65.0W 115.5  96.8  13.0 -37.4
                                 
                     Brasilsat B1   70.0W 119.9 101.1  16.1 -35.7
                                 
                 Nahuel 1 & AMC 6   72.0W 121.7 102.9  17.3 -35.0
                                 
                            AMC 6   72.0W 121.7 102.9  17.3 -35.0
                                 
                        DirecTV 5   72.5W 122.2 103.4  17.6 -34.8
                                 
                            SBS 6   74.0W 123.5 104.8  18.5 -34.1
                                 
                            AMC 5   79.0W 128.3 109.5  21.3 -31.9
                                 
                          Nimiq 2   82.0W 131.3 112.5  23.0 -30.4
                                 
                            AMC 9   83.0W 132.3 113.5  23.5 -29.9
                                 
                     Brasilsat B3   84.0W 133.3 114.5  24.0 -29.3
                                 
                           AMC 16   85.0W 134.3 115.6  24.6 -28.8
                                 
                            AMC 3   87.0W 136.4 117.7  25.6 -27.7
                                 
              Intelsat Americas 8   89.0W 138.6 119.8  26.6 -26.5
                                 
                 Galaxy 11/Nimiq1   91.0W 140.8 122.0  27.5 -25.2
                                 
                     Brasilsat B4   92.0W 141.9 123.1  27.9 -24.6
                                 
                        Telstar 6   93.0W 143.0 124.2  28.4 -23.9
                                 
                        Galaxy 3C   95.0W 145.3 126.5  29.2 -22.6
                                 
              Intelsat Americas 5   97.0W 147.6 128.8  30.0 -21.1
                                 
                        Galaxy 4R   99.0W 150.0 131.2  30.8 -19.7
                                 
                            AMC 4  101.0W 152.4 133.6  31.5 -18.2
                                 
                            AMC 1  103.0W 154.9 136.1  32.2 -16.6
                                 
                           AMC 15  105.0W 157.4 138.6  32.7 -15.0
                                 
                          Anik F1  107.3W 160.3 141.5  33.4 -13.1
                                 
         DirecTV 6 & EchoStar 6/8  110.0W 163.8 145.0  34.0 -10.8
                                 
                          Anik F2  111.1W 165.2 146.5  34.2  -9.9
                                 
                    Solidaridad 2  113.0W 167.7 149.0  34.5  -8.2
                                 
                         SatMex 5  116.8W 172.8 154.0  35.0  -4.8
                                 
          EchoStar 7 & DirecTV 7S  119.0W 175.8 157.0  35.1  -2.8
                                 
  EchoStar 9/Intelsat Americas 13  121.0W 178.5 159.7  35.2  -1.0
                                 
                       Galaxy 10R  123.0W 181.2 162.4  35.2   0.8
                                 
                        Galaxy 12  125.0W 183.9 165.1  35.2   2.6
                                 
             Galaxy 13/Horizons 1  127.0W 186.6 167.8  35.0   4.4
                                 
 Intelsat Americas 7 & EchoStar 5  129.0W 189.3 170.5  34.8   6.2
                                 
                           AMC 11  131.0W 191.9 173.2  34.5   8.0
                                 
                        Galaxy 1R  133.0W 194.6 175.8  34.2   9.8
                                 
                           AMC 10  135.0W 197.2 178.4  33.8  11.5
                                 
                            AMC 7  137.0W 199.8 181.0  33.3  13.2
                                 
                            AMC 8  139.0W 202.3 183.5  32.8  14.8
                                 
                     EchoStar 1/2  148.0W 213.3 194.5  29.7  21.7

         Satellite Finder is (c) Copyright 2004, P. Lutus

 

[DiscoLoveGrapes]

Hi and welcome!

I'm just getting my system up and running as well. I've had some degrees of success (mostly positive -- I'm currently parked on AMC4), the motor is going on this weekend so that'll be the big test for me. I'm sure other will have better answers on some things, but I'll try what I can. It sounds like you're going to stay put on G3C. If you have a motor, you will need to read up on instructions, but it seems you don't.

1) How important is the tilt of the LNB? Is it really important? Even if I'm pointing the opposite of how it should be, will I still get a signal? I'm currently ballparking it for where it should be, is this good enough?

When I was aiming, I put it close at first, then got an angle finder (about $5 at a local hardware store) to fine-tune it. I was way off the first time, and AMC4 came in, but when I fine-tuned it, my quality went up a bit. Again, if you are using a motor, read the manual and get help from Sadoun's website if needed.

2) How exact do I have to get the dish to point at the satellite? I'm panning across about 30 degrees horizontally just to be absolutely certain, and not seeing doodly, but is it possible I'm going too fast? Same question for vertical angle.

I would say be as precise as possible, and take your time. For example, for AMC4, when I initally moved the dish, things were very blocky and most signals had only a 40% quality. I went back up and moved things very slowly, eyeing any movement on the satellite finder. (The SF-95 is worth its weight in gold, IMO) I moved the dish a little left and right until the meter peaked, then adjusted the angle until it peaked. I didn't think I moved it that much, but when I went in the house, those signals at 40% were now at 65% or more! Everything I expected to come in was quite viewable.

4) Is there a really strong satellite that would be a recommended easy one to get just to make sure I'm doing the right things? My zipcode is 98052 (near Seattle, WA).

As PSB said, your true south (G10R, I'm jealous) is probablty the best bet.

5) The cheapo satellite finder I got off eBay (an SF95) doesn't seem to vary in intensity of sound no matter how I point it, unless I aim it at a solid object like my house. Basically I'm dialing it up until it is about at "5" power with a hum, then moving the dish around looking for love, and waiting for the power to spike up. Am I doing something wrong? Also, can I leave that meter between the dish and the receiver and still have the receiver able to pick up a signal, or do I need to disconnect it everytime I want to do another scan with the viacast?

I don't know about the second half, but your method is basically the way I dealt with finding a bird. The meter's movement was quite subtle as first, and then got a bit more pronounced as I fine-tuned it. For me, I set the dish at the evelation angle first as close as possible, then pointed the dish as close as I could to the correct azimuth using a compass. Then, the dish was moved left and right until I saw the meter move. Personally, I recommend having one person focus on moving the dish, while one person watches the meter. If moved too fast, that meter may not be noticed by one person.

Anyway, that's how I found the few birds I found. I hope it's helpful. Fortunately, I hear that CCTV is nice and strong, so you shouldn't have much of a problem picking it up once you get it located. Good luck!

 

[beaverdown]

Here's the thing with the Viacast. You have to program it first before you will get a quality reading. You have a universal lnb, so for your LNB LO Freq, you would type 10600000 (don't forget the 0's). You also do need the +22K switch. So for horizontal, its 18+22K and vertical its 14+22K. If you want to try to get CCTV on G3C, you would program in the transponder freq 11780000 (again, the 0's) and a SR of 20760 (this one does not require extra 0's). CCTV is H, so you would use 18+22K. Leave the other settings as defaults.

Record 1
LNB LO 10600000
Polarity 18+22K
TR Freq 11780000
SR 20760

Then you connect the LNB to the finder, then connect the finder to the receiver. If you can place the TV in a location where you can see it while you are adjusting the dish, you can press "info" on the remote to see the receiver's signal meter. That way, you should be able to detect when your adjustments have produced a lock. The signal will pass thru the finder and on to the receiver.

One other thing I found useful...make sure the LNB is in the cradle as far from the dish as possible.

 

[Mr Tony]

yep the ol Viacast...one of the strangest receivers to program

Check out the review in "reviews" of this unit. That will help with some other little issues

 

[phileFriendly]

Thanks for the tips guys. Do any of you know, when I press the "info" button on the Viacast and see the screen (which always shows strength = 92 and signal = low for me), does it auto-update regularly? Basically, I haven't gotten it to show anything except No Signal. If I were to point it at the satellite for just a second through random luck, would I see something show up on the screen automatically, or do I have to press info (or scan) again?

Thanks!

 

[Mr Tony]

Thanks for the tips guys. Do any of you know, when I press the "info" button on the Viacast and see the screen (which always shows strength = 92 and signal = low for me), does it auto-update regularly? Basically, I haven't gotten it to show anything except No Signal. If I were to point it at the satellite for just a second through random luck, would I see something show up on the screen automatically, or do I have to press info (or scan) again?

Thanks!

press info and leave it up there while you tune. If you hit it, the bar disappears and you know you hit it.

make sure to move S L O W L Y......move it 1/4 inch and wait 3 seconds or so for the receiver to acknowledge it

 

[CharredPC]

Viacast's rock, IMHO.

Good little boxes that do what they are meant to very well. Mine is in the bedroom, on a stationary 30" G10 dish. Gets everything except in really bad weather, even then we often keep the strongest TP.

 

[tvdxer]

Well, after jumping into the world of FTA because it sounds so cool and easy, I have dropped money on various cables, a receiver, and an LNB, plus many hours pointing the dish here and there looking for a sign of life, and I have yet to actually find anything

My goal: I'm trying to get CCTV on G3C for the in-laws. I know where it is, I've waved my dish around the area a bunch. I've bought a satellite finder and a new LNB (I got an old analog system for free), plus a digital receiver. But I'm stuck, and have some questions, which will hopefully help me narrow down what I work on.

1) How important is the tilt of the LNB? Is it really important? Even if I'm pointing the opposite of how it should be, will I still get a signal? I'm currently ballparking it for where it should be, is this good enough?

It's fairly important. However, if you have it in the general area of where it should be, you should be fine on a very strong transponder such as CCTV's.

2) How exact do I have to get the dish to point at the satellite? I'm panning across about 30 degrees horizontally just to be absolutely certain, and not seeing doodly, but is it possible I'm going too fast? Same question for vertical angle.

In my experience, differences in elevation (vertical) are more critical than those in aziumth (horizontal). One trick is to loosen up the elevation bolts just a little bit, and move your dish ssllloowwwlly around where you think the satellite is, moving the dish up and down a tiny bit (around where you think the elevation is right).

3) I just got a .3dB LNB off of eBay, which is a Universal LNB. With my Viacast 2000, do I set the LNB power to 18, or 18 + 22K?

Probably 18. I think 22K is for when you have a Diseqc switch connected.

4) Is there a really strong satellite that would be a recommended easy one to get just to make sure I'm doing the right things? My zipcode is 98052 (near Seattle, WA).

CCTV on G3C is one of the strongest signals in the arc (for me, at least, here in MN).

5) The cheapo satellite finder I got off eBay (an SF95) doesn't seem to vary in intensity of sound no matter how I point it, unless I aim it at a solid object like my house. Basically I'm dialing it up until it is about at "5" power with a hum, then moving the dish around looking for love, and waiting for the power to spike up. Am I doing something wrong? Also, can I leave that meter between the dish and the receiver and still have the receiver able to pick up a signal, or do I need to disconnect it everytime I want to do another scan with the viacast?

A much faster way (in my experience!) of finding the satellite is to take the receiver and TV outside, set the TV within close view of the dish, and set the receiver's antenna alignment menu (I don't know what it is called on your Viacast) to CCTV's transponder (11780 H, 20.760). By "antenna alignment", I mean the one that shows the on-screen quality and signal meters. Move your dish around the vicinity of G3C, watching the on-screen signal meter closely. It's kind of like the old "hotter and cooler" game - the signal meter will show a slight upward change (at least my Fortec does) as you approach a satellite. Once the quality meter shows a reading, you've got it! Look where the dish is, tighten screws, and fine-tune it to get the best signal.

All of this is done without the use of the SF-95.

Thanks for any tips!

No problem. I know what a colossal PITA aiming a dish for the first time can be. However, if you spend some time "ghetto-aiming" the dish without a motor to different satellites and gain experience, it will become like second nature.

 

[phileFriendly]

Still no luck...

Thanks for all the advice guys. So, I went out again and spent all morning trying to get a signal, and I still got no dice. I can't get the SF-95 satellite finder to vary in intensity by more than 1/2 a number (e.g. it goes from 4.75-5.25), and I can't get any signal on the Viacast receiver no matter what.

I've triple checked all of my numbers, and I'm almost certain I have the dish aimed at the right elevation within about 3 degrees, and at the right azimuth within about 5 degrees. Even there, I've panned very slowly across about 45 degrees of azimuth, and maybe 15 degrees of elevation, all with no luck. My LNB skew is turned clockwise (facing the dish) roughly 22 degrees, plus or minus maybe 3 degrees. It is as far from the dish as possible.

Things I'm wondering if they could be affecting me:
#1: the dish I'm using is an older one that was previously used for analog reception. It is not perfectly circular: it measures about 1 meter in height, by about 34 inches wide; it is eliptical in shape. Do I need a perfectly circular dish? Is it possible that I need to offset the LNB from its holder (e.g. mount it above the holder instead of within it? Looking at the dish, it seems like the holder is slightly below the center of the dish.

#2: there are a couple distant trees which are very tall, and which I'm wondering if they could be blocking my view. These trees are probably 100 yards away, but they are tall enough that it is possible the very tops are lying directly between me and the satellite. Could the top of a cedar tree that far away be completely blocking me from seeing the signal?

I'm attaching a picture of my dish so you can see what I'm saying about how the LNB is mounted.
Click here to see a picture of my dish.

Thanks!

 

[phileFriendly]

Well, I spent this afternoon looking for G10R, just in case I would have better luck with a South facing satellite. Still no go, however I also have distant trees in that direction. What is the most powerful westerly satellite to search for? I have a completely clear field of view to the west, so I would know for sure it isn't a location problem if I can't get a bird that way either.

Another question: I haven't run a ground wire yet; that shouldn't matter right now, correct? I presume that is a safety thing for lightning strikes etc?

Finally, I was thinking, since my dish is somewhat elliptical, am I hosed in that I can't rotate the whole dish? It seems like it might be optimised for a 0 skew LNB, but should it still work OK if I have a skewed LNB?

Thanks!

 

[PSB]

You can rotate the LNB to set the skew, no need to ground the dish until you are done.

Nice picture, if possible next time please add pictures as thumbnails then members with dial up can choose to download or not, thanks for understanding : )

The trees to the south would have to be REALLY big to be your problem, maybe a picture of your line of sight to the satellites would be an idea!

Don't give up!

 

[PipeDream]

The trees could be blocking your signal. Or if the setup option's (LNB Type, Freq., etc.) are not correct, that could do it too. I don't think the other things you mentioned would prevent you from getting any signal or channels at all.

 

[pmb1010]

It's said "a pine needle" will block the sat signal...
Not sure I'd go that far, but yes tree leaves will kill a signal in a hurry.

Can you stand behind your dish, take a pic at what its seeing?
Try to leave a little of the top of the dish in the picture for reference.

Don't forget, it's looking a little above the center point of the dish due to offset. But it might help to see if the tree is actually blocking the signal or not...

 

[phileFriendly]

I used a level with a degree measurement thingie in it to verify that the trees I'm looking at should be below the line of sight to the satellite, so I don't think that's my problem.

Let me recap exactly what I have set with this Vistar 2000 receiver trying to get CCTV4 on G3C. This is a fixed dish install (no motor). I have a .3dB Universal LNB (LAVA K101) purchased for dirt cheap off eBay.

Record: 0
LO Freq: 10600000
LNB Pwr: 18V +22K
Dwn Link Freq: 11780000
Symbol Rate: 20760
0/12V Mode: Off
DiSEqC: Off

The only things I'm uncertain about are what the 0/12V Mode selection should be, and whether I need the +22K on the LNB Power. I gathered the settigns should be as I have them, but I'm not 100% sure that's right.

As far as the hookups I'm using, the signal from the LNB goes to the SAT ANT IN connection on the Vistar 2000. I have another RG6 going from RF Out to the television. I also have the power plugged in of course

No matter how I point the dish, I always seem to have Signal Value = 92, and Signal Quality = Low. I also can't seem to get the SF-95 satellite finder to spike, unless I stick my hand in front of the LNB. Is it possible I have a "bad" component somewhere?

Thanks

 

[W_Tracy_Parnell]

Keep in mind the dish viewing angle is higher than it appears. That was part of my problem when I started, I didn't think it was posible that some high branches ewere blocking me, but they were.

 

[phileFriendly]

I don't really understand what you mean by that... the way I'm figuring the angle is by basically sighting down a level to the highest point of the trees, and verifying that this is about 10 degrees lower than where my dish should be pointing. What do you mean that the angle seems, "higher"?

thanks!

 

[W_Tracy_Parnell]

My understanding is that an offset dish "sees" an at a higher angle than it appears. I have heard the figure of 20 degrees mentioned. There is a diagram somewhere on the 'net but I can't find it right now. But I took these photos of what my dish looks like when it is on G10R. These would seem to confirm that the dish appears to be looking right at the shed but since the satellite reception is fine it has to be looking higher. The effect is even more pronounced than the photos show-I couldn't believe I was getting any signal at all.

 

[sikma]

That's because it's an offset dish. If you had a BUD (10') dish that has the lnb directly in the middle of the dish then it would be looking much higher (the exact elevation for whatever sat. the dish is looking at).

 

[W_Tracy_Parnell]

Thanks I edited my post for clarification.