The ANSWER to last night's HD Poll

[userloser]

Maye its just me, but the channels look a little softer. Not as much detail.

 

[scooby2]

The 1920x1080 vs 1440x1080 argument is pretty moot unless you sit within 7 feet of your 56" Samsung. Most people don't sit close enough to their TV to see the difference. Actually knowing what they are broadcasting in causes you to experience the placebo effect.

If you have a Samsung DLP then it really does not display 1920x1080 anyway. The Texas Instruments DLP chips actually display 960x1080 which is doubled using a technique called wobulation that HP invented.

http://www.popsci.com/popsci/bown/2004/homeentertainment/article/0,22221,767810,00.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wobulation

There really are not a whole lot of true 1920x1080 sets on the market. 90% of the sets at electronics stores are 1280x1080 or 1366x768 and thats were most consumers buy. Geeks/Techies typically order online where there is a bigger selection. RPTVs are pretty much dead, DLP does not show true 1920x1080, SXRD has the green blob, the 1920x1080 lcds are all flawed (banding, clouding, overscan/underscan), and the 1920x1080 plasmas are $7-$8 grand. More then the average consumer spends.

I went with the Pio 5070 (1366x768p) 50" plasma as my second HDTV. Sitting 10-12 feet from it, everything looks beautiful. The 5070 has an awesome built in video processor that converts 1080p/1080i/720p/480p/480i to 768p. The picture looks a lot better then my 55" Mits RPTV.

 

[general487]

Thanks scooby for continuing to mount the argument. Most HDTV's are not 1920 x 1080 true resolution.

CRT's are, and I'm lucky enough to have one. But it is an RCA, so I have to do convergence about once every 30 seconds (ha, not really, but I do have to check it often).

 

[primetimeguy]

Thanks scooby for continuing to mount the argument. Most HDTV's are not 1920 x 1080 true resolution.

CRT's are, and I'm lucky enough to have one. But it is an RCA, so I have to do convergence about once every 30 seconds (ha, not really, but I do have to check it often).

Sorry to burst your bubble but your CRT is closer to 1400x800 than 1920 by 1080. If you have 9" guns you can get close to full 1920x1080 but not many sets were made that way.

 

[primetimeguy]

Most HDTV's are not 1920 x 1080 true resolution.

True. But I would say as of late they are bceoming more common place in the larger than 42" size as prices have come down. Cost of 1080p plasmas are still very high and a very small market.

 

[PowerMax]

Sorry to burst your bubble but your CRT is closer to 1400x800 than 1920 by 1080. If you have 9" guns you can get close to full 1920x1080 but not many sets were made that way.

I do not know so I am not arguing the point, but what is the difference between a 7" gun and 9" gun?

I have spent EXTENSIVE time calibrating my Mitsu RPTV and it puts plasma, DLP and LCD to shame other than brightness, not to mention I can do black (shadow detail) that no other display technology is even capable of presenting. I cannot count pixels but I know I always host the SB party because I have the best looking set.

 

[primetimeguy]

I do not know so I am not arguing the point, but what is the difference between a 7" gun and 9" gun?

I have spent EXTENSIVE time calibrating my Mitsu RPTV and it puts plasma, DLP and LCD to shame other than brightness, not to mention I can do black (shadow detail) that no other display technology is even capable of presenting. I cannot count pixels but I know I always host the SB party because I have the best looking set.

The difference is 9" is larger and finer pitch to get nearly true HD. I think it was some of the older Mitsu's of the 65" size that had 9" guns. 90% of CRTs used 7" guns. Don't get me wrong, I have a well calibrated CRT as well and feel it beats most sets out there. I fully agree with your comments.

Anyway, back on topic.

 

[Eric_C]

Back to the question at hand.

I turned it on today and HGTV seemed better at first but it was all their commercials which included that huge blue sky background. With that large sky background being all a solid color your giving a ton of bandwidth to a small portion of the screen so it looks great.

When the shows started it was OK, maybe a bit better, but nothing that really wowed me.

Then we checked out Food which was still horrible.

Got lucky and around 8:15est they were showing the same exact commercial with Miss America doing the food safety PSA. Flipped back and forth and HGTV in comparison looked way better than Food HD.

I've been watching Food and it looks better and worse but still very very soft.

 

[ehren]

Michigan State/Ohio State on the air, looks better than before. When you look at center court where the Ohio State logo is, do people see pixels moving around the detail of the letters? What is the proper term for that? I also see it around images like the basketball cylinder and the square backboard. It's hard NOT to see it.

 

[Bear Paws]

The Texas Instruments DLP chips actually display 960x1080 which is doubled using a technique called wobulation that HP invented.

http://www.popsci.com/popsci/bown/2004/homeentertainment/article/0,22221,767810,00.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wobulation

There really are not a whole lot of true 1920x1080 sets on the market.

I guess its your interpretation of true. Both links you provided says this.
"Wobulation--The result is two visable pixels for each physical mirror, or true 1920-by-1080 picture".
The picture is key here. I went through the wobulation wars over at AVS and the general agreement is that how ever it does it, it PAINTS a 1920X1080 PIXEL PICTURE that we see. If you are of mind ,you can sit down and count them on the fresnel. You will count [discount overscan if necessary] 1920X1080 Pixels or points of light.

Further more if we follow your logic to its conclusion then a CRT only displays one raster line at a time. To get even more technical, the CRT only displays [lights] one phospher partical at a time as the single electron beam scans across the face. Thus we must conclude the CRT is a one [1] phospher or pixel display.

 

[scooby2]

I guess its your interpretation of true. Both links you provided says this.
"Wobulation--The result is two visable pixels for each physical mirror, or true 1920-by-1080 picture".
The picture is key here. I went through the wobulation wars over at AVS and the general agreement is that however it does it, it PAINTS a 1920X1080 PIXEL PICTURE that we see. If you are of mind ,you can sit down and count them on the fresnel. You will count [discount overscan if necessary] 1920X1080 Pixels.

Sure it may "paint" 1920x1080 to the screen but it is not the exact 1920x1080 image passed to it.

"Wobulation" is a technique, not dissimilar to interlacing, where odd and even vertical lines are displayed alternately, but at twice the speed of an interlaced video signal (1080i).

They also say that Wobulation causes the pixels to overlap versus the "screen door". How could you count them then? Overlapping means you are losing something as well.

 

[Bear Paws]

Sure it may "paint" 1920x1080 to the screen but it is not the exact 1920x1080 image passed to it.

"Wobulation" is a technique, not dissimilar to interlacing, where odd and even vertical lines are displayed alternately, but at twice the speed of an interlaced video signal (1080i).

They also say that Wobulation causes the pixels to overlap versus the "screen door". How could you count them then? Overlapping means you are losing something as well.

I added somethig to my last post just moments ago. Like I said. Been there done that . not again.

 

[Trevorm7]

Michigan State/Ohio State on the air, looks better than before. When you look at center court where the Ohio State logo is, do people see pixels moving around the detail of the letters? What is the proper term for that? I also see it around images like the basketball cylinder and the square backboard. It's hard NOT to see it.

Mosquito Noise, it's really annoying stuff.

 

[BlackHitachi]

Sure it may "paint" 1920x1080 to the screen but it is not the exact 1920x1080 image passed to it.

"Wobulation" is a technique, not dissimilar to interlacing, where odd and even vertical lines are displayed alternately, but at twice the speed of an interlaced video signal (1080i).

They also say that Wobulation causes the pixels to overlap versus the "screen door". How could you count them then? Overlapping means you are losing something as well.

You should really see the picture on one of these sets!

 

[ggw2000]

Stick to the facts..

The 1920x1080 vs 1440x1080 argument is pretty moot unless you sit within 7 feet of your 56" Samsung. Most people don't sit close enough to their TV to see the difference. Actually knowing what they are broadcasting in causes you to experience the placebo effect.

If you have a Samsung DLP then it really does not display 1920x1080 anyway. The Texas Instruments DLP chips actually display 960x1080 which is doubled using a technique called wobulation that HP invented.

http://www.popsci.com/popsci/bown/2004/homeentertainment/article/0,22221,767810,00.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wobulation

There really are not a whole lot of true 1920x1080 sets on the market. 90% of the sets at electronics stores are 1280x1080 or 1366x768 and thats were most consumers buy. Geeks/Techies typically order online where there is a bigger selection. RPTVs are pretty much dead, DLP does not show true 1920x1080, SXRD has the green blob, the 1920x1080 lcds are all flawed (banding, clouding, overscan/underscan), and the 1920x1080 plasmas are $7-$8 grand. More then the average consumer spends.

I went with the Pio 5070 (1366x768p) 50" plasma as my second HDTV. Sitting 10-12 feet from it, everything looks beautiful. The 5070 has an awesome built in video processor that converts 1080p/1080i/720p/480p/480i to 768p. The picture looks a lot better then my 55" Mits RPTV.

My SXRD does NOT have the blob and only a small percentage have the problem! Stick with things you know and not rumors....

 

[mecro]

My SXRD does NOT have the blob and only a small percentage have the problem! Stick with things you know and not rumors....

Can someone explain the blob to me? I work at Circuit City and I've heard people talk about the blob, but i've never seen it on our sxrd's...

 

[ripnbigc]

Shouldn't this thread be renamed?

 

[DWS44]

Shouldn't this thread be renamed?

yeah...I believe it drifted.

 

[Bear Paws]

Can someone explain the blob to me? I work at Circuit City and I've heard people talk about the blob, but i've never seen it on our sxrd's...

You can buy it on DVD circa 1960s. Its as good as the "Tingler" of the same vintage.

BTW. Starz HD is really good today, better than the other night with the "dog". Food Hd is still better. Espn? I dunno.??

 

[bobinchico]

I've noticed threads go off in tangents all the time, at all forums. It tends to make me lose interest in a forum. It makes it more difficult to learn USEFULL information. I always see the complainers negatively speculating on what's going to happen - like a bunch of women! I don't mean to degrade women. That is just a trait I think is more prevalent in them. It seems like many posters just like to speculate and worry.

I have read that most people, if you are receiving the full outputted signal can not tell the difference between 720p and 1080p. What, maybe you can see one additional pock mark on the new guy's face on CSI?

I receive my locals OTA, both through the 622 and bypassing the 622. My eyes can only see a tiny difference, if any. Maybe that's because I know which is which. Bypassing the 622 I can see no difference in a local when one outputs in 720p and the other in 1080i.

As to the original thread all I can say is I like the new move. Will just wait and see what comes next.