The future of SkyAngel: speculation and general rambling

[RedSavina]

The future of SkyAngel: speculate and opine!

First, a little background:

• As I write this, SA has 20 video channels and 12 audio channels available from 61.5.
• A couple of months ago there was some speculation about SA acquiring additional transponder space as part of a the E*/Voom sale approval. That did not materialize. (As has been noted, there is some strain between E* and SA. I'm sure that has not diminished after the recent court finding -again- in SA's favor.)
• The SA web site makes reference in their FAQ to launching their own satellites.
  Quote: Dominion has contracted with Orbital Sciences Corp. to construct two of its own DBS satellites; Dominion is likely to continue to transmit from the EchoStar III DBS satellite for domestic U.S. DBS service while using Dominion's own DBS satellites, once they have been constructed and launched, for international DBS service. In the future, when a second generation of satellites are launched, Dominion plans to provide domestic U.S. DBS service exclusively using its own DBS satellites.

So, given the above what are your thoughts on some (wild) ideas of mine?

1. When Dominion *finally* gets around to launching their own satellites will they continue to use the Dish Nagra2 encryption and receivers? What are the chances they will go with a conditional access FTA setup?
2. Will Dominion plan for some transponders on their new satellite to be audio-only to provide a radio subscription similar to XM or Sirius?
3. With the recent shift from "Christian Programming" to "Christian and Family Entertainment", which additional audio and video channels are likely to be added? I have my guesses...
4. Having lived on the west coast (aka "left coast" to many), I can tell you that pulling in the 61.5 satellite is quite a challenge. Transmitting from fringe orbital slots may be more economical, but is less efficient. Will SA continue with their plan to duplicate 61.5 programming from a far-west orbital slot or would they be more likely to release these slots for E* or D* to provide LiL (thereby freeing up national slots for E*/D* national programming). If so, what would SA likely end up with; 121? 129? something else???

I know there are some vocal members of SatelliteGuys who resent SA's programming and Charlie Ergen's contractual obligation to transmit their programming from 61.5. I respect their right to express personal views, but disagree with the premise that Christian programming does not belong on E*.

However, I don't wish to begin a hot debate of this issue, but mention it because it seems that a swap of satellite slots would benefit both E* and SA given the virtual certainty that SA will not have their own satellite up for many years. And it may appease the SA nay-sayers, too!

Got something constructive to offer to this conversation? Bring it!

Cheers,
Red

 

[Mr Tony]

1. They’ll probably stay DVB (Nagra2)…after all, it would be the least hassle to upgrade customers
2. very possible. They could pack a lot of audio channels on a TP…I think its 6 audio only to 1 video channel. There is a real good Christian channel here in MN that has lots of translator stations.. the refuge 89.5 Duluth that they should add
3. Don’t know off the top of my head
4. This has been a big topic. I wouldn’t mind them broadcasting from 129. Wouldn’t be 121 due to the satellite structure. DBS satellites need to be at least 9 degrees apart due to the higher powered (hence 110, 119, 101, 129, 148, 82, 91, 61.5, 72). So if they went to 121, then everyone would need a 30” dish. (KU band can be 2 degrees apart). Unless they can get a DBS slot at 138 or something there really is no room on the left coast.

 

[chaddux]

DBS satellites need to be at least 9 degrees apart due to the higher powered (hence 110, 119, 101, 129, 148, 82, 91, 61.5, 72).

I thought I remember reading that the FCC was considering reducing the 9-degree separation for DBS slots to a 4.5 degree separation. Didn't SES win approval to put a DBS satellite at 105.5?

 

[Mr Tony]

that I do not know chaddux

I have always known it to be 9 degrees apart...they could experiment with 4.5 apart but turn the power down (maybe)

 

[chaddux]

that I do not know chaddux
I have always known it to be 9 degrees apart...they could experiment with 4.5 apart but turn the power down (maybe)

Yeah it is. I found an article (not the one I originally read). It is being considered and DISH has applications for three of the "4.5 degree" slots. Although it's years away, it could be an opportunity for Sky Angel.

http://www.cedmagazine.com/article/CA628400.html

 

[Stargazer]

Years away huh? By that time it may be too late.

 

[chaddux]

Years away huh? By that time it may be too late.

Sky Angel isn't exactly rushing along with their satellite launches either.

 

[Stargazer]

Maybe the future of SkyAngel is being the family package that Dish Network has to offer although Dish Network may offer the family package without SkyAngel since its on 61.5.

 

[TNGTony]

Dish Network and Sky Angel are two separate and "independent" DBS compamies. Dish will not offer Sky Angel as a family package since it has nothing to do with Dish other than it uses the same satellite. When USSB and DirecTV shared 101, it was essentially the same way. DirecTV never "offered" HBO. They just told their customers to call USSB.

See ya
Tony

 

[andrews777]

I have said before that I question SkyAngel's long term viability. I am not sure if they can get enough customers with their business model, or any model for that matter.

I missed the debate about those who gripe about SkyAngel programming being on Dish. How inane. Dish carries a whole lot of stuff, why should one particular view be prohibited?

I am currently SkyAngel-only (since I have a lifetime sub) to save money (though Dish gets fees for my 2 522s), but Dish has gotten a lot from me in the past, and will probably get more in the future so I think they are stupid to not cultivate a good relationship with SkyAngel. If SkyAngel were gone, or off Dish, I would seriously consider DirectTV.

One thing that hits me odd with SkyAngel & HGTV is that the latter has a lot of alternative lifestyle-friendly shows, at least in sense that the people spotlighted are in "alternative" situations. (I am not trying to start an argument here.)

I also have noticed a few strong ratings on some of the Hallmark Movies, and I think even shows like M.A.S.H. on Hallmark (if I am right that it is on there) don't jive with the other proclaimed goals of SkyAngel. Any comments on how SkyAngel can thrive with this extra stress?

Brad

 

[GeorgeLV]

I have said before that I question SkyAngel's long term viability. I am not sure if they can get enough customers with their business model, or any model for that matter.
I missed the debate about those who gripe about SkyAngel programming being on Dish. How inane. Dish carries a whole lot of stuff, why should one particular view be prohibited?
I am currently SkyAngel-only (since I have a lifetime sub) to save money (though Dish gets fees for my 2 522s), but Dish has gotten a lot from me in the past, and will probably get more in the future so I think they are stupid to not cultivate a good relationship with SkyAngel. If SkyAngel were gone, or off Dish, I would seriously consider DirectTV.
One thing that hits me odd with SkyAngel & HGTV is that the latter has a lot of alternative lifestyle-friendly shows, at least in sense that the people spotlighted are in "alternative" situations. (I am not trying to start an argument here.)
I also have noticed a few strong ratings on some of the Hallmark Movies, and I think even shows like M.A.S.H. on Hallmark (if I am right that it is on there) don't jive with the other proclaimed goals of SkyAngel. Any comments on how SkyAngel can thrive with this extra stress?
Brad

I think your post illustrates the problem with their business model. An evangelical Christian service and a family programming service are not the same thing. Even something as generally acceptable as the Discovery Channel could be found objectionable by a significant percentage of the SkyAngel community because their faith strongly rejects a certain basic tenents of science (evolution, big bang) that are frequently referenced and supported in the Discovery Channel programming.

 

[Downlink]

The threat of ALC

GeorgeLV: > I think your post illustrates the problem with their business model.
Another problem is that if the majors ever go a'la carte,
SA may be toast.
In addition to those who might object to some of the HGTV
and Hallmark content, some people subscribe to SA just as
a cheap way to get FoxNews. With ALC, current SA customers
might be able to get just what they want from Dish, and for
less.

 

[RedSavina]

I have said before that I question SkyAngel's long term viability. I am not sure if they can get enough customers with their business model, or any model for that matter.

I agree that their recent shift from "Christian Programming" to "Christian and Family Programming" is interesting and could have quite a ripple. Some points to keep in mind:

• Dominion (the company) has been around for about 25 years; SkyAngel (the service) has been broadcasting for around 10 years.
• Their stated plan is to launch international service on their own satellite ("in the near future") and eventually shift US programming to their own satellite. What is interesting here is that offering a package of Christian + Family programming may be a step towards a viable business plan to English (and some Spanish) speakers in other countries. I wouldn't bet the farm on this, but find it an interesting possibility.
• There are indications that SkyAngel is interested in adding additional "family" channels. One that was mentioned was FoodTV. Since they are owned by the same company that has HGTV (and DIY), I would consider this a strong possibility once they have additional channel space.

I missed the debate about those who gripe about SkyAngel programming being on Dish. How inane. Dish carries a whole lot of stuff, why should one particular view be prohibited?

I agree. Echostar and Dominion have a contractual business relationship. Dominion could have entered into a relationship with DirecTV or gone the FTA route. I don't know the history of how Dominion ended up with Echostar vs any other options, but suspect the FTA option was not appealing due to the larger dish size and decreased availability of equipment - as compared to the retail channels that Dish and DirecTV command. Now, if Dominion was getting some sort of free ride or had an exclusive content contract (a la NFL Ticket and DirecTV) I would have a different opinion.

The other thing that puzzles me is the apparent Christian vs Everything Else view that is so prevalent these days. Seems like every conceivable belief or value system is "OK" and even encouraged as long as it is "other than Christian". Without debating the actual belief systems, I find this baffling! I don't hear people griping about Dish carrying Al Jazeera and other Arabic/Muslim programming. I don't hear people griping about Dish carrying programming that portrays the gay lifestyle. I don't hear people complaining that Dish carries a lot of sports. I don't hear people complaining that Dish carries a lot music. Etc etc etc. Imagine how many channels could be added if we just got rid of that worthless {insert bias here} programming.

Truthfully, I think it's pretty cool that they can carry programming that appeals to such a diverse group - something there for everyone! Of course, my views are correct and everyone else is wrong!

I am currently SkyAngel-only (since I have a lifetime sub) to save money (though Dish gets fees for my 2 522s), but Dish has gotten a lot from me in the past, and will probably get more in the future so I think they are stupid to not cultivate a good relationship with SkyAngel. If SkyAngel were gone, or off Dish, I would seriously consider DirectTV.

Here's one for you to mull over... As a lifetime subscriber I enjoy the fact that I will always have their programming as long as it is available. (I'm a little annoyed that I'm hostage to Dish's additional receiver fee policy, but that's a different topic.) But now, with the addition of secular Family programming and the possibility of more in the future, how will lifetime subs affected? Additional channels cost money. Assuming that a means to add channels comes about, at what point should SkyAngel stop raising the programming price and move to a programming package concept? For example, what happens if SkyAngel switches to Christian Programming as the core service and secular Family Programming as an added-value package. Right now with only four channels in the mix this is a moot point. But what about when/if additional channels are offered? Will lifetime subscribers get it all or just the core service?

One thing that hits me odd with SkyAngel & HGTV is that the latter has a lot of alternative lifestyle-friendly shows, at least in sense that the people spotlighted are in "alternative" situations. (I am not trying to start an argument here.)

I also have noticed a few strong ratings on some of the Hallmark Movies, and I think even shows like M.A.S.H. on Hallmark (if I am right that it is on there) don't jive with the other proclaimed goals of SkyAngel. Any comments on how SkyAngel can thrive with this extra stress?

Brad

Cheers!
Red

 

[andrews777]

I think you got it, but I wanted to note that I was commenting on how stupid it was to protest Christian programming per se. I wish Dish and SkyAngel would work out something beneficial so Dish could carry all the Christian channels, and perhaps more.

The tier possibility is possible, and maybe even likely. I wonder how many of their subscribers are "lifetime subs" and how many pay regularly? What is the real cost of not charging lifetime subs for extra programming? Though if they did, I doubt I would pay. If I was going to pay, I would probably already have full Dish (or DTV, or cable) already and then I wouldn't need it.

I am only saving about $60-80 each month now until I get my finances in better control. Though if I didn't have the lifetime sub we would probably just watch less TV overall. I can already get enough podcasts and such to get my fill of radio, if it came to that, and the local Christian stations are reasonable. I enjoy Z-73 and CSN, but I could live if they weren't around.

Brad

Brad

 

[Stargazer]

If you have SkyAngel will you be charged the $5 access fee if you want the locals or premium movie packages?

 

[RedSavina]

If you have SkyAngel will you be charged the $5 access fee if you want the locals or premium movie packages?

NO, you should not. My current bill looks like this:

SkyAngel Lifetime - $0
Distant Locals - $5.99
Premium Movie - $13.99
Additional Receiver - $4.99
(plus the occasional PPV)

In about a month I will add the new HD programming package which should be about $20. Then I will be done! No other programming is necessary in my home.


Cheers,
Red

 

[Mr Tony]

Sky Angel is exempt from the $5 fee but I thought if you had other stuff you would be charged that...guess I was wrong

 

[andrews777]

Note that you do also get charge the DVR fee, if you have one of those (510, 522, etc.)

It kind of annoyed me, but what can I do about it?

Brad

 

[Stargazer]

You get charged the $10 DVR fee instead of the $5 DVR fee. I wonder what that $10 fee will be next month once the $5 fee goes up to $6?

I am also curious about whether or not if SkyAngel will go HD? Probably not until they get their new satellites launched to free up some bandwidth.

 

[andrews777]

I don't think so. I am pretty sure I am paying the "normal" $5 DVR fee.

Brad