the importance of 4dtv maps

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crackt

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Feb 24, 2007
1,000
1
101w up north.
I'm probably one of the 2, but if not... now you know 3. ;)

Cheers

well then i think youd be part of the problem and not the solution. you cannot think you would be breathing new life into a dying service by with holding your subscription. i have 3 4d units. all have a purpose. one i bought for subbing. one i bought for dmx in the garage. and one i have for spare. with holding your money is only going to make the opportunity to sub die even faster. i was happy with a choice. i would even pay more for a channel if i only had to buy one channel. with all the talk about choice and whatnot its funny how the mass starts jumping overboard when there ideal situation isnt met. if we all subbed then we would have clout when we wanted changes. alone we are weak. together we are strong. for all of you whiners.... buy a channel once in awhile and the service will meet the demand. for me... im still extremely happy i kept a reciever with maps to score some music. thats what this post was about.

crackt out,.
 
C

crackt

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Feb 24, 2007
1,000
1
101w up north.
and once again i ask the question... why werent the map changes sent on the channels they were meant to demap. haha. for all the peeps who keep warning of the impending doom... keep your recievers out of the IF loop when moving your dish and keep rocking. been a loud night.

crackt out,.
 
P

Proton

Member
Feb 17, 2010
11
0
US
My unit got re-mapped and I am only on W5-828. I noticed the audio dropping out in
August so I unplugged the unit. Once it rebooted there was no DMX.

The odd thing is the TDT went to 1920. I did the the reset back when we had to add
W5 and the unit has never been off of W5 since.

Glad I have a couple of SC units that I reset back then that still have good maps.

In order for the unit to re-map it has to be on a digicipher channel right?
 
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trinidex

SatelliteGuys Pro
Lifetime Supporter
Jul 16, 2004
892
1
well then i think youd be part of the problem and not the solution. you cannot think you would be breathing new life into a dying service by with holding your subscription.crackt out,.

I agree with this comment.

We need to show support to what is currently the only subs option for our 4DTVs

I've seen some very negative comments against Skyvision in here, comments that as far as I can see are unfounded ("they are all the same" - Skyvision haven't shown any move to screw us - yes I know, not yet.

Gotta tell you, if I was them, I'd be thinking "screw you a**hole" go sub pizza!
 
L

lonewolf454

SatelliteGuys Pro
Nov 27, 2009
278
0
Georgia, US
I, for one, am working on trying to figure out 4dtv mapping thing, wish we would have started earlier.

I can dl/ul to ird but a lot of info is incorrect at this point. It causes me to have to reboot, but maps are intact, although it puts me at G1 regardless of actual heading, and pulse count goes to where G1 was set at. I need to try a master reset and see if maps are actually reloaded or not, when I have some spare time. Will post any follow up in WUT-

Keep this in mind-
1. Maps are still available at G1/133W TP3.
2. Old maps were available by staying on W5/105W for awhile. I don't know if this is still true.
3. You will receive hits on more than one spot on W5, including the posted W5/440 (TP5)

I am trying to do all I can to back up maps, as I am not sure that if we do subscribe to HITS after 1 January 2011 that Moto won't wipe out our maps, or other locations we frequent, such as MChoice or DMX, Showtime, or even PBS.
 
D

Dannymcenrow

SatelliteGuys Guru
Jun 1, 2009
145
0
Detroit MI
Yes they will do it that's why I'm removing the coax of my receiver on dec 31st.And no my comments are not unfounded look back at my older comments I wrote about NPS and you can see that I was right.I am always right.I never say anything until I know that it's right.It was the same back then NPS played the good cop and went ahead of every provider and started uplinking the g3 channels.Then they screwed us.All of them screwed us.I know people my dad used to be a manager of a local tv station he is not alive anymore but I still know alot of people who worked with him and they know all the insides about satelitte tv dishnetwork and everything.See I had doubt when I subscribed to programming center in June and stopped my subscription with NPS.I went on programming centers webside and I saw that there subs go till 6 months.So the same as NPS they were not selling 1 year subs.BUt I called them and asked them and they said no 4dtv is not gonna end NPS is lying so I subbed.Then in august I came on their webside again and saw that they reduced their subs to 3 months now.SO I said hmm lets call them and ask whats upI called them and I heard the same thing I heard from NPS.That Motorola is gonna end 4dtv.But why didn't they tell me that in june huh????Why wait till august???And now they want us to sub to W5ONLY.WHY IS THAT?I can't think of any other reason then to take our FTA priviliges away.Because if they really cared they could let us sub to the same things we can sub now since our receivers ARE CAPABBLE of it.But no they want us to erase our maps.WHY?YOU CAN"T lie to me.You can't tell me I need to do a Master reset to sub to W5.I downloaded the Al MAP WITHOUT resetting.It was just sitting on W5 and it got downloaded.I got rehits from W5 at the end of every month without going to G1 3.AND.......When I used the AL map I could even get my sub with it the channel numbers were different but I got them just fine.Because channel number is just a channel number it points to EXACTLY THE SAME FREQUENCY THE SAME PIDS,THE SAME SYMBOL RATES,and everything.So actually all we have to do is pay for subscription and they can rehit us on W5 we don't even need a new map with the old map we can still watch the channels.BUT why do they want us to do a master reset??Because then we will lose the dish moving capability off the 922 and be stuck only on W5 and subbing to them.Once we are they will slowly but surely pull the plug on us so the sky will go completely dark on us.Then our tvs sure will be dark so we'll have no option then to go run and buy dishnet.And by the way NPS DO HAVE A CONTRACT WITH SKYVISION.They are SELLING w5 package now along with the rest of the stuff.They can sell g3 too if they want after january 2011.THey'll just make a deal with skyvision to map in the g3 channels.That way we'll only have to sats in our receivers.W5 and G3.You don't believe me?YOU'll see.I supported C band long enough but I got screwed so I am never falling in their traps again.
 
T

tvropro

On Vacation
Mar 9, 2007
6,872
0
2. Old maps were available by staying on W5/105W for awhile. I don't know if this is still true.

I believe W5 maps now match G1 ever since they tossed away AI after the test.
 
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tvropro

On Vacation
Mar 9, 2007
6,872
0
You can't tell me I need to do a Master reset to sub to W5.I downloaded the Al MAP WITHOUT resetting.It was just sitting on W5 and it got downloaded.I got rehits from W5 at the end of every month without going to G1 3.AND.......When I used the AL map I could even get my sub with it the channel numbers were different but I got them just fine.Because channel number is just a channel number it points to EXACTLY THE SAME FREQUENCY THE SAME PIDS,THE SAME SYMBOL RATES,and everything.So actually all we have to do is pay for subscription and they can rehit us on W5 we don't even need a new map with the old map we can still watch the channels.BUT why do they want us to do a master reset??Because then we will lose the dish moving capability off the 922 and be stuck only on W5 and subbing to them.

The reason you have to do a MR to get the 410 datastream is its a different EMM provider. The only way the 4DTV will change its EMM is by clearing out the old one, MR. Unfortunately the 4D will go back to the default analog maps when that happens. If Comcast don't add the current 4D maps to their EMM its bye bye for them unless we can load our own. Comcast is not going to go through the trouble of supporting satellites like G3 thats for sure. The maps for updated satellites and generics possibly but nothing else.

The channels you saw working on AI were running on the 4DTV Motorola's EMM 4096 not Comcasts 4166 DSR410 version.

I foresee in the distant future once Comcast changes the W5 satellites modulation to a newer type thats it. Unless by some miracle a new receiver is released.
 
L

lonewolf454

SatelliteGuys Pro
Nov 27, 2009
278
0
Georgia, US
... And G3 channels you speak of are uplinked by NPS via Crawford Cablestar out of Atlanta, I expect these to end any day, if I can borrow your crystal ball , Danny.

I expect if a good portion of 4dtv'ers don't migrate to the Comcast W5 package, it won't last too long. Hopefully most of the 10,000 or so will sign up. The only way I will is if I have a contingency plan in place with maps backed up. Wished I could have got the old W5 maps saved before they changed them.

I also believe that Skyvision and SRL honestly believed that 4dtv was going to last for a while longer. With the big dog dropping 4dtv remaining number by nearly half with their sky is falling lies, the number dropped below 20,000 which was low enough for Moto to throw in the towel. NPS followed what YSP did a few years back and hundreds of thousands drank the Kool-Aid (Actually Jim Jones didnt use Kool-Aid, it was Flavorade but anyway-)

If Skyvision and SRL screw this up, they will lose it all. Dishnet is not the only option, their HD looks like sh*t. I for one will go with DirecTV and use my dish for itc game feeds, etc. It's up to Sky, SRL, and Comcast what happens from here.

NPS will be out of the picture 31 December, guess they pissed comcast off too. All I can say for NPS is don't let the door hit you in the A$$ on the way out of c-band.
 
eurosport

eurosport

In Dave Grohl We Trust!
Supporting Founder
Mar 31, 2008
6,862
309
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...

If Skyvision and SRL screw this up, they will lose it all. Dishnet is not the only option, their HD looks like sh*t. I for one will go with DirecTV and use my dish for itc game feeds, etc. It's up to Sky, SRL, and Comcast what happens from here.
Dish and Direct's HD look the same as each other...and nowhere near what I've seen on C-band FTA.
 
C

crackt

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Feb 24, 2007
1,000
1
101w up north.
The only way I will is if I have a contingency plan in place with maps backed up. Wished I could have got the old W5 maps saved before they changed them.

when someone figures out how to get the maps from the reciever, i have a 905 and a 920 with the old maps. my 922 got remapped tho so i could sub.

crackt out,.
 
B

brex2001

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 14, 2009
642
2
USA
My GI 922 is currently subbed but the Moto 922 it replaced has the AI channel still on it. Unfortunately the M 922 has problems. Could the mapping still be retrieved?
I also have a 905 out of the stream.
Any constructive opinions? ;)
 
Larry1

Larry1

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 24, 2005
1,594
138
Port Hope, ON Canada
when someone figures out how to get the maps from the reciever

The 4PLAY should still download the maps, just the map export to text file and inport back to the bin file does not decode the data properly. 4PLAY should still be able to download and restore the maps from the bin file. 4PLAY just backs up the memory chip where the maps are stored. For other models of DCII receivers, you just need to specify the correct address range to backup and restore.
 
Anony55

Anony55

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 10, 2010
460
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USA
well then i think youd be part of the problem and not the solution. you cannot think you would be breathing new life into a dying service by with holding your subscription. i have 3 4d units...

I understand your point, but it's not gonna change my needs. I only have 2 4D units, a 922 & a 920. The 920 has a dead battery & corrupt ID, so it's useless.

The 922 moves the dish & selects polarity for my HTPC. I'm definitely not giving up my 922 to W5 if we're gonna lose the maps. Frankly, I watch much more FTA on the HTPC than I ever watch on the sub. I don't see that makes me a "problem", just an end user with a specific need.

I really don't even care that much about the generics. I have commercial receivers on the way to take care of that.

If the W5 thing doesn't fill my need... then why do I need them? If maps end up being part of the deal, then I'm in. Otherwise, I simply can't let my 922 be rendered useless for what I use it for the most.

If I end up trying the 4play BDM thing, I'll probably test it out on the old 920. But that's a different subject.

Cheers
 
truckracer

truckracer

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Sep 17, 2004
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351
Charleston wv
I don't think there is much use for making maps because I estimate that regular DC II will be gone in the near future. With the bandwidth savings offered by newer technology- I would say if digicipher even survives in the headend makers it will all be combo mode an 8psk
 
Anony55

Anony55

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 10, 2010
460
1
USA
The demise of consumer mode DCII probably won't be all that fast, cable companies use those channels too. Just look how long it's taking ESPN to convert to digital & shut off their analogs.

Cheers
 
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crackt

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Feb 24, 2007
1,000
1
101w up north.
well truckracer i would have to disagree. im not super tech smart. i dont care about how signals are modulated and sent to me. all i know is end results. in respect to quality, there is no replacement for dc2. of course ive taken care not to corrupt my 905's maps. w5 dmx lives. in srl's new 410 packages you can also take notice that w5 dmx music channels are still mapped in packages. i foresee a future here for tunes. they differ from the dmx mux @ 91w. and their quality is far superior on my superior audio / htpc equipment. hint : the dsr-630 shaw reciever has appeared officially. take note of its very similar appearance to a fta stb.

crackt out,.
 
stargaze

stargaze

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 14, 2010
916
56
Out there somewhere
What some are failing to realize is that this is not just about Generic mappings but what happens if you have to do a Master Reset after 12/31. You will have only a few outdated satellites not enough to even cover the N/A arc that will allow you to keep using the receiver as a dish moving receiver for a slaved FTA receiver.

This is what we get for allowing someone else to take control over our receivers that we paid for.

If anything can come of this even if it means being able to keep what is in the receiver right now it would be a great benefit.

As for DCII, well I gave up on DCII, I have been too busy with my other satellite surfing receivers to even watch 10 minutes of anything in DCII.
(Never thought it would come to that but it is what it is!)
 
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