The Reverse Band LNB's are coming!

[goaliebob99]

I could see Charlie agreeing to that.

 

[slice1900]

As was suggested some time back, it would seem to be a pretty logical and even swap if DIRECTV would give Dish their 14 Ku licenses at 110/119 in exchange for Dish relinquishing their claim on the Reverse Band at 103W.

But again, that's all speculation of course...

Well its a little more complicated than that, since Dish has no claim on that, it is actually a Canadian company called Ciel that holds the ITU license for RB at 103W. I haven't seen any updates from the FCC for ages about the status of that (but then I don't really know where the heck to look on their site for that)

Dish could shelve their plans for the 25K dishes on cell towers that were going to use Ciel's license, but that doesn't solve Directv's problem unless Dish has some leverage with Ciel to get them to agree to FCC coordination in a manner that results in Directv being able to use RB@103W all the way to the Canadian border.

This would make sense for everyone involved if Directv can get guarantees about RB's future, can drop 110/119 and maybe replace Slimline with a smaller less oval dish, and Dish can have the same bandwidth available in both arcs. Ciel doesn't care unless they have a customer for the RB package on the Ciel-6i satellite at 103W.

 

[Claude Greiner]

Guaranteed Directv will continue to use 101, we just don't know for sure what they'll be using it for. Stuart Sweet keeps saying Directv plans to abandon 119 after the MPEG2 shutdown but it isn't clear if that was something he heard officially from Directv or he's guessing.

The D7S satellite at 119 is getting old, though they would have other options if they wanted to keep using 119. I can't see them continuing with 110, three transponders isn't worth the trouble - and it hasn't been used in the US for years anyway.

It would be easier for them to drop 110/119 and have everyone use an SL3, but that would mean Dish (eventually) getting the use of those transponders. Maybe Directv doesn't care about that anymore, or they've made some deal with them over that we aren't aware of.

They will not abandon 110 and 119. The whole purpose of holding on to those assets was to deny Dish Network use of those transponders.

The second Directv gives up their 14 licenses at 110/119, you know Dish Network is applying for them.

Unless AT&T is in bed with Charlie, I don’t see this happening.

Several things need to happen...

#1 all SD equipment must be replaced with HD equipment.

#2 once all SD equipment is replaced all programming needs to go to MPEG4 / 8PSK

#3 All SD Duplicate feeds of HD programming must cease.

#4 Popular HD channels such as ESPN should be moved from 99/103 to 101 since the signal
Is stronger and to reduce rain fade on more popular often watched channels.

#5 any additional capacity on 99/103/110/119 should be used to expend 4K.

#6 Directv should consider moving international programming from 95 to 119/110 before making the decision to stop providing programming at 119.

At the very least 110 should be used, as any Dish that can see 119, also sees 110

 

[Claude Greiner]

Well its a little more complicated than that, since Dish has no claim on that, it is actually a Canadian company called Ciel that holds the ITU license for RB at 103W. I haven't seen any updates from the FCC for ages about the status of that (but then I don't really know where the heck to look on their site for that)

Dish could shelve their plans for the 25K dishes on cell towers that were going to use Ciel's license, but that doesn't solve Directv's problem unless Dish has some leverage with Ciel to get them to agree to FCC coordination in a manner that results in Directv being able to use RB@103W all the way to the Canadian border.

This would make sense for everyone involved if Directv can get guarantees about RB's future, can drop 110/119 and maybe replace Slimline with a smaller less oval dish, and Dish can have the same bandwidth available in both arcs. Ciel doesn't care unless they have a customer for the RB package on the Ciel-6i satellite at 103W.

But I think it’s a matter of convince also.

For dish to fire up and use 14 transponders at 110/119 is no big deal for them. Customers already have the correct dishes in place.

For Directv to use the reverse band, they need to swap LNB’s for every customer that wants the additional programming.

The same holds true for using 110/119, but there is the possibility with line of site issues where that is not the case going with a reverse band.

 

[HoTat2]

But I think it’s a matter of convince also.

For dish to fire up and use 14 transponders at 110/119 is no big deal for them. Customers already have the correct dishes in place.

For Directv to use the reverse band, they need to swap LNB’s for every customer that wants the additional programming.

The same holds true for using 110/119, but there is the possibility with line of site issues where that is not the case going with a reverse band.

Although, if Dish were to get DIRECTV's 14 transponders at 110/119, which would place them on the western arc of course ...

Considering this would be effectively useless unless Dish can do for one arc what it can likewise do for the other. Does Dish have enough, or can clear up, the extra capacity on their eastern arc to match a gain of 14 transponders on the western?

 

[Claude Greiner]

Although, if Dish were to get DIRECTV's 14 transponders at 110/119, which would place them on the western arc of course ...

Considering this would be effectively useless unless if Dish can not do for one arc what it does likewise for the other. Does Dish have enough, or can clear up, the extra capacity on their eastern arc to match a gain of 14 transponders on the western?

Wasn’t eastern arc supposed to be 61.5/72/77 ?

If I’m not mistaken they are not using 72 or 77?

Technically eastern arc would Have more capacity than western arc.

Also eastern arc is 100% mpeg4 8psk. Western arc is not at this time

 

[HoTat2]

Wasn’t eastern arc supposed to be 61.5/72/77 ?

If I’m not mistaken they are not using 72 or 77?

Technically eastern arc would Have more capacity than western arc.

Also eastern arc is 100% mpeg4 8psk. Western arc is not at this time

AIUI, they're not using 77W on the EA except for some local markets well south of the Canadian border. Since the bird there can't have full CONUS coverage for national programming without interference to Canada.

 

[Claude Greiner]

AIUI, they're not using 77W on the EA except for some local markets well south of the Canadian border. Since the bird there can't have full CONUS coverage for national programming without interference to Canada.

Still it can be used

 

[HoTat2]

Still it can be used

But definitely not for national programming with a coverage like this (currently from E6 or 8)...

Coverage from 77°

The beam can't hit the northern part of the CONUS without spilling over into Canada which is using the same 12.2-12.7 GHz Ku DBS frequencies for service at 77W nominal.

 

[ChrisK114]

Okay I was installed in May. Got info and test and it shows this. Does this mean I am ready?

 

[nelson61]

But definitely not for national programming with a coverage like this (currently from E6 or 8)...

Coverage from 77°

The beam can't hit the northern part of the CONUS without spilling over into Canada which is using the same 12.2-12.7 GHz Ku DBS frequencies for service at 77W nominal.

???????

77w provides full conus coverage well into Canada and down to Panama and has essentially the full Dish SD suite transmitting along with a few locals (which cover also conus).

 

[nelson61]

Canada providers do not use 77. Only dish Mexico and dish usa.

 

[HoTat2]

Okay I was installed in May. Got info and test and it shows this. Does this mean I am ready?

Yep ...

That's the Slimline-3 version of the Reverse Band capable LNBs and the most popular one.

I have the Slimline-5 version of that same LNB myself because of DIRECTV's stupid policy of keeping a favorite holiday music channel of my sister's on the 119W satellite for 11 out of 12 months of the year.

 

[HoTat2]

???????

77w provides full conus coverage well into Canada and down to Panama and has essentially the full Dish SD suite transmitting along with a few locals (which cover also conus).

Canada providers do not use 77. Only dish Mexico and dish usa.

Ok, I'm lost here then (never been a Dish sub.)...

If Dish service is still authorized for full CONUS coverage at 77W, why are the footprints from the satellites there still not covering the northern CONUS?

And why has Dish apparently abandoned 77W for CONUS coverage by long distributing the EA Twin LNB?

 

[raoul5788]

Ok, I'm lost here then (never been a Dish sub.)...

If Dish service is still authorized for full CONUS coverage at 77W, why are the footprints from the satellites there still not covering the northern CONUS?

And why has Dish apparently abandoned 77W for CONUS coverage by long distributing the EA Twin LNB?

Since this is a Directv forum you would be better off asking in the Dish area.

 

[slice1900]

They will not abandon 110 and 119. The whole purpose of holding on to those assets was to deny Dish Network use of those transponders.

The second Directv gives up their 14 licenses at 110/119, you know Dish Network is applying for them.

Unless AT&T is in bed with Charlie, I don’t see this happening.

Several things need to happen...

#1 all SD equipment must be replaced with HD equipment.

#2 once all SD equipment is replaced all programming needs to go to MPEG4 / 8PSK

#3 All SD Duplicate feeds of HD programming must cease.

#4 Popular HD channels such as ESPN should be moved from 99/103 to 101 since the signal
Is stronger and to reduce rain fade on more popular often watched channels.

#5 any additional capacity on 99/103/110/119 should be used to expend 4K.

#6 Directv should consider moving international programming from 95 to 119/110 before making the decision to stop providing programming at 119.

At the very least 110 should be used, as any Dish that can see 119, also sees 110

1. I think you misunderstand what "abandon 110/119" entails. Directv doesn't have to surrender any broadcast licenses, they just quit using those slots. After some time when they are inactive, Dish can petition the FCC to get temporary permission to use them which they have to renew every six months - like they are doing with three of the transponders at 61.5W. I don't know how long after Directv "abandons" 110/119 before Dish can apply, and how long Directv can gum up the works, but I think it is safe to say that it would be a few years at minimum after the 2019 MPEG2 shutdown before Dish could start using them if Directv was not cooperative. If they had a deal with Dish, then they could surrender their license to the FCC, but Dish would still only get temporary permission to use them and have to reapply every six months.

Numbers 2 & 3 will be taken care of in 2019, that's what the whole "MPEG2 shutdown" is about - though they don't need to go 8PSK. Directv isn't using 8PSK for any CONUS transponders now, Dish is forced to compress everything more due to their small amount of bandwidth compared to Directv.

4. They could move popular HD channels to 101, but it isn't certain that is what they will do. They might carry MPEG4 SD duplicates of everything from 101, so that 101 only dishes on RVs continue to be useful (they would not have locals, but RV accounts can get the NYC or LA locals that are CONUS)

5. Expand 4K? There may never be enough 4K channels to fill up the 36 reverse band transponders they have now, so I don't think anyone needs to be worried about "expanding 4K" for many years, if ever.

6. The 95* satellite will go away at the same they drop MPEG2 SD in 2019, that programming will likely go to 101. Theoretically it could go to 119 if they keep 119 around, but I don't just don't see the value in keeping that slot to be honest.

 

[HoTat2]

...

Numbers 2 & 3 will be taken care of in 2019, that's what the whole "MPEG2 shutdown" is about - though they don't need to go 8PSK. Directv isn't using 8PSK for any CONUS transponders now, .

Good analysis, but just one note of correction ...

DIRECTV actually is using 8-PSK for 4 national Spanish HD channels on 119 CONUS tp. 24. And has been doing so for some time now.