Time to apply for HD waiver

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colofan

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 2, 2004
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Loveland,CO
Now it is my understanding that Shevra allows a customer to ask for a digital waiver since we won't be getting HD local via OTA anytime soon.

Yes I live in the Denver DMA and yes I know that HD local is coming though no DVR to record this signal is available.

Can't I get a test now to force the waiver issue? I though April 30 was the deadline.

Part of me wants to stick it to the lack of progress on the OTA anyway.
 

fleetmack

SatelliteGuys Family
Apr 29, 2005
60
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Westminster, CO (North Denver)
i live in westminster and can get everything except NBC in HD OTA just fine

(edit: sorry, didn't realize you were in loveland, i doubt the signal goes that far. ABC flat out will NOT give you a waiver, neither will fox. but before i got my antenna i got CBS to give me a waiver, so you can at least get that. fox has a VERY strong signal here though, that one might reach you)
 

charper1

Bourbon Tester
Supporting Founder
May 18, 2004
18,442
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I'm Nationwide
There is no specific HD or digital waiver process yet; it is still based on the grade of the standard analog signal(s) by the affiliates that claim your zip in their DMA.
 

Wirelezz

Well-Known SatelliteGuys Member
Jan 29, 2006
33
13
Rocky Mountain High
Denver DMA

I live 40mi. west of Denver in the mountains, and I have HD waivers for the 4 networks since Jan. 2006. ABC, CBS, & NBC were granted immediately. However, I had to fight with D* for 5 weeks before getting the Fox HD waiver. Fox affiliate KLWY in Casper WY had initially turned me down. Even though I was located 200mi. from them I was listed in their secondary DMA... go figure! After many calls to KLWY, the station's broadcast engineer finally relented and faxed a "paper waiver" to D* and I finally got the Fox HD waiver.

If your initially turned down for HD waivers, your only recourse is to contact the station's chief engineer and/or general manager and convince them that you absolutely don't receive their OTA signal. Also there is no signal testing for HD signals, that is a myth.

<This thread> may be of interest to you. You can also input your address into D*'s <DNS Eligibility Site> and see if your eligible for HD waivers based on your location. This D* site is not always completely accurate however.
 
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charper1

Bourbon Tester
Supporting Founder
May 18, 2004
18,442
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I'm Nationwide
There really is still (to date) no official grading / measurement of digital like there is for SD, nor is their any current digital waivers process. It is all still based on the SD grading.
 

HDTVFanAtic

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May 23, 2005
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Remember the waivers do not grant you specific markets. You are guaranteed a signal. If you live in Denver, they could give you another Mountain Time Zone city where you are in their spotbeam. The waivers do not require it to be in MPEG2 either - only HD.

Thus if you wanted to fight it, you might find yourself spending a lot of money and time and netting virtually nothing at all.

Actually I am surprised they have not done this on a larger scale prior to now to force more upgrades to MPEG4.
 

Tower Guy

SatelliteGuys Pro
Nov 1, 2005
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colofan said:
Now it is my understanding that Shevra allows a customer to ask for a digital waiver since we won't be getting HD local via OTA anytime soon.

Yes I live in the Denver DMA and yes I know that HD local is coming though no DVR to record this signal is available.

Can't I get a test now to force the waiver issue? I though April 30 was the deadline.

Part of me wants to stick it to the lack of progress on the OTA anyway.

Yesterday the FCC granted the digital waiver request for CBS, NBC, and UPN in Denver. This delays the deadline 6 more months.

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-06-801A2.pdf
 

colofan

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 2, 2004
236
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Loveland,CO
Well I am confused now does that mean since I already get CBS DNS for HD that I can now call Direct and request and receive NBC and UPN? How does ABC get off the hook :)
 

Wirelezz

Well-Known SatelliteGuys Member
Jan 29, 2006
33
13
Rocky Mountain High
Tower Guy said:
Yesterday the FCC granted the digital waiver request for CBS, NBC, and UPN in Denver. This delays the deadline 6 more months.

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-06-801A2.pdf
This is confusing... generally waiver requests are tendered to local stations by D* in behalf of D* subscribers. So exactly what is meant by "FCC granted the digital waiver request, etc..." and where does it say this delays the deadline for 6 months?

Tower Guy, would you please elaborate on your post? This link opens a PDF doc titled "Appendix A - Granted Waiver Requests," but there's no date or supporting info. What document does this appendix A belong to? Could you post a link to the entire document this belongs to?
 

HDTVFanAtic

SatelliteGuys Pro
May 23, 2005
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Wirelezz said:
This is confusing... generally waiver requests are tendered to local stations by D* in behalf of D* subscribers. So exactly what is meant by "FCC granted the digital waiver request, etc..." and where does it say this delays the deadline for 6 months?

Tower Guy, would you please elaborate on your post? This link opens a PDF doc titled "Appendix A - Granted Waiver Requests," but there's no date or supporting info. What document does this appendix A belong to? Could you post a link to the entire document this belongs to?

I don't want to go wading through the document to find out if this is correct, but I believe he is speaking of the delay getting the permanent towers of the HDTV stations built in Denver.

There was a big fuss with the environmentalist, iirc, that did not want a tower on a mountain and thus they could not get the digital transmitters on a tower that does not exist - so they needed waivers in their licenses and CPs as they would not meet the mandated deadlines.

Take it for what it's worth and he can correct me if it is something else.
 

Wirelezz

Well-Known SatelliteGuys Member
Jan 29, 2006
33
13
Rocky Mountain High
HDTVFanAtic said:
I don't want to go wading through the document to find out if this is correct, but I believe he is speaking of the delay getting the permanent towers of the HDTV stations built in Denver.
Re the tower fiasco, read the latest <Here>.

Actually there's an entirely different take on this FCC "Appendix A" PDF doc over at the AVS forums; I quote the follwing from <post #15064> in the Denver OTA thread:

"SHREVA is really shafting the consumers. What this 'puppy' is [referencing the FCC PDF doc], is the stations have been granted waivers that allow them to deny HD DNS due to digital signal tests becoming active on 04/30 (a few days ago). In other words, you can't get a digital signal test for that station because of the waiver."

Digital signal tests becoming active on 04/30? This is news to me (if it's true). So because of the Lookout Mt. tower reconstruction project being on hold due to the special intrest groups (Golden City council included), the digital signal tests which are now alleged to be available will be denied? If that's true, why would the local networks be given permission by the FCC for a blanket denial of waivers for HD DNS? Still confusing, yes?
 
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colofan

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 2, 2004
236
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Loveland,CO
Well I started this mess and I still don't understand how a station can get a waiver to not allow waiver tests since clearly they don't have an DTV signal beyond downtown denver.....oh well.....
 

Tower Guy

SatelliteGuys Pro
Nov 1, 2005
751
122
colofan said:
Well I started this mess and I still don't understand how a station can get a waiver to not allow waiver tests since clearly they don't have an DTV signal beyond downtown denver.....oh well.....

The stations were granted a waiver of digital waiver testing because they were not responsible for the delays in constructing the new DTV tower. The delays are due to the lawsuits filed by the rich NIMBY's who live near the towers.

Here's a picture of the Albany, NY DTV tower.
http://albanyhdtv.homestead.com/DTVtowerfull.html
Isn't it beautiful!
 

charper1

Bourbon Tester
Supporting Founder
May 18, 2004
18,442
6
I'm Nationwide
NIMBY people!! Do they not do any research as to the area's zoning beforehand? Do they not go to town, city or county meetings to see where zoning is being changes or requested? Why is it only after construction is slated do they come out of the woodwork to hold stuff hostage?
 

Tower Guy

SatelliteGuys Pro
Nov 1, 2005
751
122
charper1 said:
NIMBY people!! Do they not do any research as to the area's zoning beforehand? Do they not go to town, city or county meetings to see where zoning is being changes or requested? Why is it only after construction is slated do they come out of the woodwork to hold stuff hostage?

Actually it's worse than that. There are currently multiple towers scattered on the site. The current tower proposal would replace all of them with a single tower.

Among other things the lawsuits claim damage to humans from RF radiation. I have known many TV transmitter engineers who worked in environments that would be considered illegal today. They all have or had long and healthy lives. You just can't prove that there is no effect.
 

Wirelezz

Well-Known SatelliteGuys Member
Jan 29, 2006
33
13
Rocky Mountain High
charper1 said:
NIMBY people!! Do they not do any research as to the area's zoning beforehand? Do they not go to town, city or county meetings to see where zoning is being changes or requested? Why is it only after construction is slated do they come out of the woodwork to hold stuff hostage?
Simple answer:

More money than brains! :eek:
 

colofan

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 2, 2004
236
0
Loveland,CO
Well I read the full document and at least one station (ABC) does not have a waiver based on that document so yep going to request testing or digital waiver. The ironic part of that is they were denied because they were to late in applying for it.

Still really gets my goat that as a consumer who cares if I get a signal or not seems to be the attitude of the FCC. Where was the public comment section besides E* that counteracts the stations.
 
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