Titanium Satellite Titanium ASC 1 gone bad after 1 month in use

[zack]

I bought this dish mover in December 2016. I finally started using it in late December 2018 after my 4DTV finally died for good. (after other problems, it quit being able to read position counts but would still move the dish)

The other day, I went to move my 10 foot mesh dish using my Linkbox 9000 to control the Asc 1 and it did not move! I have the remote control lock on, so I got up to go look at that tiny screen and it had - dish limit? or motor blocked? I hit OK and then tried the E and W buttons. I do not know which way worked? After 2 or 3 cycles of this it began working.

Today I was on SES 101 for Perry Mason and then moved to AMC 18. When I tried to go back to SES 101 nothing happened again! Nothing I can do today will make it go East!

I spent a couple of hours looking on line for posts I have read about the bad relays in the ASC 1 but I could not find them!

This evening I used the Linkbox to move West to 113 for DR WHO, worked just like it is supposed to, no lost counts or anything, it just will not go East!

Just so you know, I have 2 week old RG-6 Quaud shield coax cable and one reason it took me so long to install the ASC 1 was that I knew it needed something like this https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/dxe-cw1812or

I am also using CAT-5 for my skew and a 2 year old Venture arm 36 or 38 inch, i forget.

I will take any help you can give me! New part numbers for those relays; links to those old posts; or just tell me how to disassemble the ASC 1? Are there screws under the rubber plugs on the bottom?

 

[DVB-S2]

Just contact Titanium. The owner Brian provides excellent support for his customers (speaking from personal experience with my ASC1, and others who have posted here).

 

[N6BY]

Ditto the above ^^^. However, I think Brian went to a ham radio club field event this weekend.

Until he is back, you might try putting a volt meter on the actuator power wires and see if there is voltage when you try to move the dish east.

 

[primestar31]

Double check to make SURE that your receiver didn't somehow set soft East limits. That is, IF you have a coax from the receiver to the ASC1. If you are only using it with the remote, ignore all the rest of this post.

My Gbox has recently done that a few times for me, and I'll still trying to figure out why. In my case, I think it's related to the extreme cold we have here in Michigan right now, but not yet sure. It's 8:35am, and it's -16F out there! We've been exceptionally cold for well over a week now. Anyway, I fixed mine by using its remote to clear the soft limits.

I don't know much about the ASC1, but I'm sure it has a way to do that also. In my case, I simply hold down the LIMITS button on the remote control for 10 seconds. The lcd screen did a count down, and cleared the limits.

 

[. Raine]

I would definitely talk to Titanium before you tear it apart, chances are it's not the relays. I've had a ASC1 for quite a few years now and have had the same problem you're having a few times but it was always an issue other than the ASC1 causing it.

If you've had a lot of rain lately, check that you don't have moisture intrusion into your motor, switches, cables, etc. A bad connector that let rain in did this once to me. If you have any DISEQC or 22 KHZ switches in your setup, you could try bypassing them temporarily.

Some receivers that don't issue Diseqc commands correctly can cause issues, what receiver are you using? It's kinda funny, the ASC1 needs everything just right because it's very precise, It's not always very tolerant to equipment that doesn't follow standard protocol, or bad connections, stuff other movers might not balk at because they're not as precise.

Reread your post and saw where you're using a Link box 9000. I don't have one of those receivers, so I don't know how they work with the ASC1

The receivers I have in thier menus have a setting to disable limits, if you do that from the receiver menu it should clear the software limits of the ASC1.

I don't use the remote for my ASC1 because another remote I have interferes with my ASC1, I put a piece of tape over the IR sensor and program my ASC1 either from the receiver or the front panel buttons. My ASC1 would do goofy things and it took me a while to figure out that it was one of our other remotes, the one for our security DVR. Pressed a button on it one day and saw the ASC1 panel light up and ah ha.

Definitely talk to Titanium, he's very good at supporting his products and always goes the extra mile to help people.

 

[KE4EST]

Yes, for sure Brian( Titanium ) will take care of you, not need for the drama or screw turning!
If it is indeed a defective ASC1 I'm sure he will just replace. He will be back on here tonight or tomorrow.
I doubt it is a relay, I have sold hundreds and never had one with a bad relay.

 

[ZetaMale]

I had a lot of problems with limits on my ASC-1. It's been sitting on the floor collecting dust for several months since I can't get it to be reliable. I'm not going to spend any more time trying to make it work.

 

[primestar31]

I had a lot of problems with limits on my ASC-1. It's been sitting on the floor collecting dust for several months since I can't get it to be reliable. I'm not going to spend any more time trying to make it work.

That's really odd.

With the cost of that, I sure would contact Brian and do EVERYTHING to get it checked out. I certainly wouldn't just leave it sitting in the closet.

 

[KE4EST]

That's really odd.

With the cost of that, I sure would contact Brian and do EVERYTHING to get it checked out. I certainly wouldn't just leave it sitting in the closet.

Brian has offered several times for him to send it in....

 

[zack]

Brian has offered several times for him to send it in....

Sorry, Michael, you posted last so I will respond to all here.

I took the ASC 1 out to the dish and set the soft limits out there directly into it. No receiver involved!

It is still set at 0002 W and 0561 E! I never set any limits in my 9000i but I will look into that! I am now at 113 at 0307 counts.

As for checking for voltage when moving East, I do not hear the relay click, and the counts do not change. I do have a Snap On voltmeter in the house but I will wait until tomorrow when I can use a scope to check for voltage, if you think I need to do so!

As for contacting Brian, I hope he reads this and responds to this post and saves my a lot of my "one finger hunt and peck typing"

Brian, invoice 3324 on 12-22-16

This unit was not installed until after I had the actuator cable from DX Engineering in Nov. I did not install until the after x-mas this last year in 2018

I did set the limits at the dish in Nov at the dish with some spare wiring I had, then found that it would not work with my existing ribbon cable!

I then put the ASC 1 back to the side until I had the right cable!

 

[clucas]

If your 4D had trouble with the counts I would have tested to see if your sensor in the mover went bad or a wire came loose. I wonder if that is creating a problem with your ASC1 now.

 

[Titanium]

I agree with clucas. Verify that the reed switch sensor is working properly. Reed switches may become defective over time and may become magnetized if parked on a magnet. This could cause erratic counts.

1. With no wires connected to the ASC1 connect a DC voltage meter across the M1/M2 screw terminals. Press the East button on the ASC1. Is a 28-36Vdc voltage reading momentarily displayed on the meter?

Press the West button on the ASC1. Is a 28-36Vdc voltage reading momentarily displayed on the meter?

2. With no wires connected from the ASC1 to the actuator, use a 12Vdc battery to manually drive the dish in each direction. Test the reed switch sensor for open closed cycles as the actuator is moved in each direction. Are open/closed cycles read on a continuity tester?

Sorry, took the weekend off and away from Internet and business for the last few days for the Amateur Radio Winter Field Day. Thank you SatGuys members for assisting and suggestions.

Please contact customer support with the results of these tests. (530) 652-4405. Thank you!

 

[zack]

1. With no wires connected to the ASC1 connect a DC voltage meter across the M1/M2 screw terminals. Press the East button on the ASC1. Is a 28-36Vdc voltage reading momentarily displayed on the meter?

Press the West button on the ASC1. Is a 28-36Vdc voltage reading momentarily displayed on the meter?

2. With no wires connected from the ASC1 to the actuator, use a 12Vdc battery to manually drive the dish in each direction. Test the reed switch sensor for open closed cycles as the actuator is moved in each direction. Are open/closed cycles read on a continuity tester?



Please contact customer support with the results of these tests. (530) 652-4405. Thank you![/QUOTE]
Update!

I called Brian today. First of all Thank you Brian! I enjoyed talking to you!

I passed all his tests and he is going to take care of me. However, I was honest and brought up another problem I had. A potential ground problem.

When my electric heat would come on, I would lose signal- sometimes! It would depend on what channel I was on. Metv, H&I, the whole Retro tv mux would all lose signal, I had to change channels to a different polarity and back to regain signal. It is funny, on Decades, I never lost the signal, (and yes the heat had cycled several times while on Decades) but I would not have signal on Me or H&I until I changed again like above!

Decades, Metv, and H&I are all Vertical so that tells me this is not a skewing or polarity problem. ( how could it be with 98 S and 98 Q on decades and none on the others?)

So it must be LNB voltage from a bad cable?

After I installed the new actuator cable from DX Engineering I had stripped the extra old wiring from my ribbon cabling inside my house and a LOT of the black covering came off the one C-band cable left and exposed a lot of braided silver wire!

Went shopping for coax, bought and installed Quad four shielded coax, no change!

Swapped out an Open box for my Linkbox 9000i , just as bad.

OK, that leaves the LNB it self, right? Swapped out my Norsat for one I had bought from Skyview years ago, no change!

Remember, this problem happens with a high load on the home AC wiring! What is next? Google search!

Google is our friend! Long story short, 1.25 volt drop between neutral and ground when all 3 heating elements are on!

Thanks to Brians advice, I first will begin by taking apart the Asc 1 to see if I am OK with replacing the mother board or not!

Either way, I am to check, (after I put it back together) volt drop from the ASC 1 to ground ( ASC meaning the ground on the back, the chassis it self, or the outer of the coax cable) The ground meaning the screw in the middle of your outlet which should be connected to the bare copper wire inside your outlet!

If I find a bad ground at the ASC 1 I am to ground my dish POLE (not the dish itself) to the structure ground! (Google what structure ground is, yourself!)

Fix the ground first! He will just send me a mother board if I take that route, or he can send me a shipping label, I ship to him, he takes 2 to 3 days for turnaround, ships back to me! California to texas one time vs 4 times the other way? 4 screws on the front, 4 screws on the bottom under the rubber plugs, 7 ribbon cables and no soldering?

Anybody that can help me on the ground problem? I am used to finding DC voltage drop, take yours cars starter for example,put both leads on the positive cable ends ( at the battery and at the starter, if you find 12 volts under load, the cable is for sure bad! AC voltage drop where the neutral and ground are together on the same strip in the breaker box?

 

[Titanium]

Great conversation with Zack. The ASC1 has no momentary DC voltage output on M1/M2 when the East button is pressed. This is a component failure on one path of the control logic. Unknown cause until we test the main PCB for defect. This could be an electrical event of a simple component defect. In any event, we will take care of the repair or replacement based on zack decision on preferred method.

zack Just to clarify the voltage potential test that we spoke about when discussing the intermittent signal loss. Test with ALL wires disconnected from the ACS1 except the AC power plug :
1. Using an AC multi-meter, touch one probe to anything connected to structure ground (ASC1 chassis, electrical outlet cover plate screw, plug ground, etc.).
2. Touch the other probe to each wire coming in from the dish (coax braid, coax stinger, each wire of the sensor circuit and each wire of the servo circuit).

The Vac readings between ground and each wire should be below 1v. I look for .6Vac or lower. If the meter readings are higher than 1Vac between structure ground and any wire coming in from the dish, this may cause problems with connected electronic devices. The higher the voltage potential the increase chance of component failure or logic issues. Voltage potentials are often the cause of HDMI port failures.

Bonding the dish pole to the structure ground will eliminate a voltage potential traveling between the two grounding points.

 

[zack]

Great conversation with Zack. The ASC1 has no momentary DC voltage output on M1/M2 when the East button is pressed. This is a component failure on one path of the control logic. Unknown cause until we test the main PCB for defect. This could be an electrical event of a simple component defect. In any event, we will take care of the repair or replacement based on zack decision on preferred method.

zack Just to clarify the voltage potential test that we spoke about when discussing the intermittent signal loss. Test with ALL wires disconnected from the ACS1 except the AC power plug :
1. Using an AC multi-meter, touch one probe to anything connected to structure ground (ASC1 chassis, electrical outlet cover plate screw, plug ground, etc.).
2. Touch the other probe to each wire coming in from the dish (coax braid, coax stinger, each wire of the sensor circuit and each wire of the servo circuit).

The Vac readings between ground and each wire should be below 1v. I look for .6Vac or lower. If the meter readings are higher than 1Vac between structure ground and any wire coming in from the dish, this may cause problems with connected electronic devices. The higher the voltage potential the increase chance of component failure or logic issues. Voltage potentials are often the cause of HDMI port failures.

Bonding the dish pole to the structure ground will eliminate a voltage potential traveling between the two grounding points.

Today I disassembled the ASC 1 and decided I could replace the motherboard. While I had it apart I used the handle of a screwdriver to tap on the relays. It now is working again!

I just talked to Brian again and it seems we just did not understand each other yesterday! I did not see his last post above until just now.

Tomorrow I will be disconnecting the ASC 1 ( all wiring except the AC plug) again and then testing between the ground (the bare copper wire in the receptacle) and each individual wire coming in from the dish. All of them, coax inner and outer, dish actuator cable M1 M2 S1 S2 drain shield (the braided silver wires) , and the three wires to the skew motor!

 

[zack]

Today I disassembled the ASC 1 and decided I could replace the motherboard. While I had it apart I used the handle of a screwdriver to tap on the relays. It now is working again!

I just talked to Brian again and it seems we just did not understand each other yesterday! I did not see his last post above until just now.

Tomorrow I will be disconnecting the ASC 1 ( all wiring except the AC plug) again and then testing between the ground (the bare copper wire in the receptacle) and each individual wire coming in from the dish. All of them, coax inner and outer, dish actuator cable M1 M2 S1 S2 drain shield (the braided silver wires) , and the three wires to the skew motor!

Sorry, I took yesterday off from this problem!

I tested today with good results! (.2Volts to .4V on each wire, bundled some together with same results)

Brian is shipping a new motherboard for my ASC 1 to me free of charge. He even said that he is throwing in a Disect 1.0 switch so I can connect my long unused KU lnb! All this on an ASC 1 that two years old that was only in use for one month! He does take care of his customers!

We got into a discussion about what might be causing me to lose the signal when my electric heat came on since the testing so far was good. He brought up the skew motor. I said no because when on Decades, I never lose signal but when I go to ME or H&I I have no signal on those (All Vertical ) until I change polaritity to H and back!

Brian came back at me with electrical interference on the reference wire to the skew motor. "How could that happen with no power to the skew I asked?" I freely admit that I am using Cat - 5 phone unshielded cable. Brian said that the skew motor always has power. No, I say, because my 4DTV only powered up the 5 volts to the skew for a very short time! I do not know what the ASC 1 does!

Brian then checked an ASC 1 of his that he said had been not touched in two hours and came up with 5 volts? He recommended that I mark the position of the probe below of the skew motor, and then recheck after I lost the signal to see if it might have moved a little!

My ASC 1 was still uhhooked at the time, so after I got off the phone I hooked it all back up. My Snap On voltmeter only reads a little over one volt when changing polarities and drops back to zero right then, nowhere near as long a time as my old 4DTV kept its voltage alive!

So I am right back to no power at the skew motor when I lose the signal.

 

[Titanium]

Where are you reading the servo voltage? Across GND/5Vdc terminals or GND/Pulse?

My suggestion to Zack on losing channels when heat pump cycles is the the servo uses PCM to position the probe. When unsheiled wire is used for servo circuits, servo motors will often step off as they can interpret RFI as PCM control signals.

By exactly marking the Horizontal and Vertical probe position inside the feedhorn then checking the probe position after loss of signal with a heat pump cycle, he will know if the servo has stepped off the proper position. The fix? Use sheilded wire, which has always been used in satellite ribbon cables. Unsheilded Cat 5 or cat 6 wire is not appropriate for servo distribution. I am 99.9% certain that the loss of signal during heat pump cycles is related to the use of unsheilded distribution for the servo motor.

Servo stutter or unintentional movement is a common problem with pcm servos used in robotics. Google "pcm servo robotic interference" for good reference materials on grounding and shielding the wiring.

Zack's testing results between structure ground and each wire indicated that the voltage potential was quite low and below the voltage that would damage electronics. I requested him to verify this before we exposed new hardware to a potentially damaging situation. We are now assured that a voltage potential does not currently exist on the satellite system.

Sending a replacement main pcb to zack because tapping a stuck relay with a screwdriver is not likely a long term or permanent fix... LOL!!!

 

[zack]

Where are you reading the servo voltage? Across GND/5Vdc terminals or GND/Pulse?

My suggestion to Zack on losing channels when heat pump cycles is the the servo uses PCM to position the probe. When unsheiled wire is used for servo circuits, servo motors will often step off as they can interpret RFI as PCM control signals.

By exactly marking the Horizontal and Vertical probe position inside the feedhorn then checking the probe position after loss of signal with a heat pump cycle, he will know if the servo has stepped off the proper position. The fix? Use sheilded wire, which has always been used in satellite ribbon cables. Unsheilded Cat 5 or cat 6 wire is not appropriate for servo distribution. I am 99.9% certain that the loss of signal during heat pump cycles is related to the use of unsheilded distribution for the servo motor.

Servo stutter or unintentional movement is a common problem with pcm servos used in robotics. Google "pcm servo robotic interference" for good reference materials on grounding and shielding the wiring.

Zack's testing results between structure ground and each wire indicated that the voltage potential was quite low and below the voltage that would damage electronics. I requested him to verify this before we exposed new hardware to a potentially damaging situation. We are now assured that a voltage potential does not currently exist on the satellite system.

Sending a replacement main pcb to zack because tapping a stuck relay with a screwdriver is not likely a long term or permanent fix... LOL!!!

Brian, after bringing my scope in this morning I DO find a steady 5Vdc between GND/5Vdc terminals! (powered all the time) On the GND/Pulse I had 0V to 5V pulses which the voltmeter was seeing as a little over 1V.

What can I say other than I was using the wrong tool in the dark last night and used the right tool this morning in daylight? OK, the adult beverage probably did not help either!

 

[zack]

Brian, after bringing my scope in this morning I DO find a steady 5Vdc between GND/5Vdc terminals! (powered all the time) On the GND/Pulse I had 0V to 5V pulses which the voltmeter was seeing as a little over 1V.

What can I say other than I was using the wrong tool in the dark last night and used the right tool this morning in daylight? OK, the adult beverage probably did not help either!

Update, I received the mother board from Brian and after calling him, he advised me that i should move my dish to 0000 before replacing it! The ASC1 will revert back to 0000 after replacement! (in other words if you left your dish at 0307 counts, then replaced the board, you have to find the whole sat arc again!)

He also advised taking photos of the connectors, I cannot do that so I plan on changing the board this weekend while I am closed and hopefully will not have stop and deal with one of my customers!

As to my losing the signal when the heat came on, the last couple of days here in East TX we have met or broken high temps records for both the days high, and the mornings high temp! No need for heat! Just turn on a lamp, or for no reason,maybe the water heater came on? Lost signal!

It did not used to be this bad, but it had happened by just turning on a lamp before, usually on METV. I thought it was just coincidence because it was not repeatable, but during this heat wave it has happened enough to change my mind!

I will do like Brian advised and what he said!

By exactly marking the Horizontal and Vertical probe position inside the feedhorn then checking the probe position after loss of signal

I turned on the AC this morning, Right now it is 33 degrees! I turned on the heat around lunchtime, but I have not lost signal yet?


By exactly marking the Horizontal and Vertical probe position inside the feedhorn then checking the probe position after loss of signal

I should have done that before it got cold!

 

[zack]

Update, I received the mother board from Brian and after calling him, he advised me that i should move my dish to 0000 before replacing it! The ASC1 will revert back to 0000 after replacement! (in other words if you left your dish at 0307 counts, then replaced the board, you have to find the whole sat arc again!)

He also advised taking photos of the connectors, I cannot do that so I plan on changing the board this weekend while I am closed and hopefully will not have stop and deal with one of my customers!

As to my losing the signal when the heat came on, the last couple of days here in East TX we have met or broken high temps records for both the days high, and the mornings high temp! No need for heat! Just turn on a lamp, or for no reason,maybe the water heater came on? Lost signal!

It did not used to be this bad, but it had happened by just turning on a lamp before, usually on METV. I thought it was just coincidence because it was not repeatable, but during this heat wave it has happened enough to change my mind!

I will do like Brian advised and what he said!

By exactly marking the Horizontal and Vertical probe position inside the feedhorn then checking the probe position after loss of signal

I turned on the AC this morning, Right now it is 33 degrees! I turned on the heat around lunchtime, but I have not lost signal yet?


By exactly marking the Horizontal and Vertical probe position inside the feedhorn then checking the probe position after loss of signal

I should have done that before it got cold!

Update! all day Sat and Sun, no signal loss! Ice present both days. This morning, 50 degrees, lost signal 4 or 5 times when heat came on between 7:30 and 9:00 AM.

It got up in the mid 60s today but rained all day, so I had no chance to mark the feedhorn.

I did not get to replace the ASC 1 motherboard on Saturday because of a customer that had moved out of state. He called that morning stating that his wife had had to pay 150$ just to find out why the check engine light was on, and how much would it be to replace the thermostat on a 2015 Explorer? After several calls ( I knew he would keep calling me back) I eventually explained to him that while my way of dealing with his engine light would be to charge him 25$ to pull his code,( that any 25$ code reader could have done) With my Snap On scan tool I would be also able to look at the data stream, is it above or below the rated temperature? If it is above, I need to keep it overnight and in the morning check all the temps ( coolant temp, intake air or cylinder head temp, trans temp, and outside temp) if they all agree when it is cold it is then time to start it up and then begin watching the actual temp with an infrayed temp gun and the coolant temp on the scanner! Also while it is cold I would have checked the coolant level and the % of the coolant! I might have been 150$ at that point for a diagnosis at that point! It took me most of the day, (he did not want reveal it) but she was only there at that place for fifteen minutes! 150$ for a simple code read?