Toshiba readying a BD player?

[diogen]

Well if the format war is with the DVD format they win but if it is between the competing High Def formats that is another matter.

I don't see it like this.
Ultimately, Blu-ray was developed to replace DVD: fix the pesky CSS problem and eventually sell you all the movies again. Just like many bought DVDs of movies they had on VHS. The format war was an "accident" when the players couldn't unite behind one format for reasons like oversized egos, bad blood, greed, revenge, etc. I think this phase is essentially over: there is still no unity but the format war has been won by BD. Now the only remaining question is whether BD can fulfill its original mission. Uniting everybody, including Toshiba, Microsoft and the rest of the HD crew would help to lift the chance for this to happen, but even in this case I see them as slim at best.

Toshiba may have tipped their hand at CES by coming out with their super duper upconverting DVD player.

This is an interesting development that would show Toshiba's intentions.
I believe Sony should make Toshiba an offer "they can't refuse". And maybe they did but it turned out to be not good enough. The short lived Sony offer (in Germany) to exchange a HD player for a BD player was a sign there is no peace between Tosh and Sony. I think cool heads will prevail, but it might take some time. I think Toshiba has enough arsenal (like this upconverting player) to f*ck up BDs "world domination" plans.

If Sony is determined to drive Toshiba & Co. out of the hidef optical business for good, I wouldn't bet a penny BD ever goes mainstream.

In the end the question is: Will online distribution kill BD when they have 20% of the market or 5%, IMHO.

Diogen.

 

[nonrev]

You say that as if you have insider information to know what Toshiba's profit margin was. I highly doubt that. Regardless of what their reason was for charging lower prices, you cannot argue that they were not able to deliver them. They did.

Your missing the reason why they delivered product so cheap. If they win the war they make a killing with licensing fees. Other wise there would be no $150 HD DVD players so soon. For that matter BD players would be much higher also not that they're not high enough. Its got nothing to do with being an insider, its common business logic talked about many times in these forums.

No problem, and no need to discuss. If you think BR is better, then it probably is for you. That does not mean it is necessarily better for me or anyone else. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion based on their personal wants and needs.

I personally think HD DVD is the better or at the very least a more complete product. But hey what’s that got to do with anything, its all about which side threw around the most money and where they threw it. But as you say no need to discuss.

 

[IcEWoLF]

I don't see it like this.
Ultimately, Blu-ray was developed to replace DVD: fix the pesky CSS problem and eventually sell you all the movies again. Just like many bought DVDs of movies they had on VHS. The format war was an "accident" when the players couldn't unite behind one format for reasons like oversized egos, bad blood, greed, revenge, etc. I think this phase is essentially over: there is still no unity but the format war has been won by BD. Now the only remaining question is whether BD can fulfill its original mission. Uniting everybody, including Toshiba, Microsoft and the rest of the HD crew would help to lift the chance for this to happen, but even in this case I see them as slim at best.
This is an interesting development that would show Toshiba's intentions.
I believe Sony should make Toshiba an offer "they can't refuse". And maybe they did but it turned out to be not good enough. The short lived Sony offer (in Germany) to exchange a HD player for a BD player was a sign there is no peace between Tosh and Sony. I think cool heads will prevail, but it might take some time. I think Toshiba has enough arsenal (like this upconverting player) to f*ck up BDs "world domination" plans.

If Sony is determined to drive Toshiba & Co. out of the hidef optical business for good, I wouldn't bet a penny BD ever goes mainstream.

In the end the question is: Will online distribution kill BD when they have 20% of the market or 5%, IMHO.

Diogen.

Retailers killed HD-DVD.

I doubt a dead format can f*ck up BD's world domination plans, we are taking over the whole damn world in case you didn't notice it, Toshiba or no Toshiba we still going to take over the market. Or should I say taking over countries? It is a matter of time when Toshiba (HD-DVD) only will live in the US...

 

[haertig]

I personally think HD DVD is the better or at the very least a more complete product.

I happen to agree with you on that. When I said "...accept as fact for the sake of discussion..." I was not specifying my personal preference. Which happens to be HDDVD. I think the two formats are equal in performance/abilities. A few insignificant pluses or minuses on certain minor feature differences, but on average ... equal. For me, cost was the differentiator. For two equal things I will buy the one that is cheaper. Everyone gets to decide for themselves if HDDVD and BR are equal or the scale is tilted, based on the features/abilities they want the most.

 

[diogen]

Retailers killed HD-DVD....

Huh? Is this what Joe told you?

I doubt a dead format can f*ck up BD's world domination plans......

I knew you have spelling problems, but didn't know you have reading problems, too. Where did I say HD will do that?

...we are taking over the whole damn world in case you didn't notice it, Toshiba or no Toshiba we still going to take over the market.

Who are "we"? Are you on medication at this young age?

Diogen.

 

[JamesJ]

hey if they do develop a bluray, can they at least update the firmware in my 42HL167 so that my one input would read Bluray and NOT HD DVD as they have so lovingly put in the input labels.

 

[nonrev]

Retailers killed HD-DVD.

WB blindsided back stabbing is what dealt the hardest blow. Especially considering they looked at all the facts & figures and decided to side with HD DVD.

I doubt a dead format can f*ck up BD's world domination plans, we are taking over the whole damn world in case you didn't notice it, Toshiba or no Toshiba we still going to take over the market. Or should I say taking over countries? It is a matter of time when Toshiba (HD-DVD) only will live in the US...

Some of the arsenal Diogen was speaking of includes these new high powered up converting DVD players. If very hard feelings remain I can see Toshiba dumping this product for $50-$75 and as you say “f*ck up BD's world domination plans” big time. J6P given the choice between seeing their DVD’s with these new up converting players or a $500 BD will no doubt select Toshiba’s up converter. Especially considering viewing on these new up converters will be the most amazing thing they would have ever seem. This fact my son can go a long way towards "f*cking up BD's world domination plans"!!!

 

[Peter Parker]

I don't see it like this.
Ultimately, Blu-ray was developed to replace DVD: fix the pesky CSS problem and eventually sell you all the movies again. Just like many bought DVDs of movies they had on VHS. The format war was an "accident" when the players couldn't unite behind one format for reasons like oversized egos, bad blood, greed, revenge, etc. I think this phase is essentially over: there is still no unity but the format war has been won by BD. Now the only remaining question is whether BD can fulfill its original mission. Uniting everybody, including Toshiba, Microsoft and the rest of the HD crew would help to lift the chance for this to happen, but even in this case I see them as slim at best.

Perhaps you s ee it that way. But when others refer toa format war that si not the war they a re referring to.


But point well taken.

 

[haertig]

...I can see Toshiba dumping this product for $50-$75 and as you say “f*ck up BD's world domination plans” big time.

This is a possibility. Even if Toshiba does not go so inexpensive on the new upconverters.

Look at my house (I sure many others are similar). I have maybe 100-150 standard DVDs. I have two standalone DVD players, one portable DVD player, five computers with DVD drives, and a DVD setup built into my van conversion. I have one HDDVD player (substitute BR player if you prefer that) hooked up to my bigscreen HDTV. I buy most of my DVDs either used, on sale, or otherwise discounted. $5-10 a shot.

Now, I can continue buying DVDs and when I want to see them the best they can be, I use the upconverting HDDVD player (substitute BR if you want) on my bigscreen. At other times I can use those exact same DVDs in any of the multiple other playback things I have. I can loan them to friends and be assured they'll have something that can play them.

Or, I could buy an HDDVD disc (substitute BR) for three to five times the cost of those used DVDs and be able to use it ONLY in my one HDDVD (BR) player. I would probably lose a lot of the DVD extra features too, as those are slimmer on HDDVD (BR) discs. I realize HD is better looking than standard definition. I have no trouble observing that. But you have to give up a lot to get it ... cost and flexibility.

I was initially pretty gung-ho about HD movies. I approached them with caution and thought, but was initially enthralled none the less. Now, I'm not so sure they are that much better so as to balance out what you lose by purchasing them. When prices come down significantly and selection goes way up, it will be time for me to reevaluate. But for now I can see when retreat or at least cessation of forward offensive might be the saner option. The quick turnaround against HDDVD made me realize that BR is only a hair away from being smashed by standard DVD itself. I doubt I would have recognized that in my earlier initial infatuation days (which weren't all that long ago).

 

[IcEWoLF]

Huh? Is this what Joe told you?
I knew you have spelling problems, but didn't know you have reading problems, too. Where did I say HD will do that?
Who are "we"? Are you on medication at this young age?

Diogen.

You said Toshiba, and in this forums Toshiba means 1 thing, and that means HD-DVD.
Next time try to be more specific instead of flaming others with your *IAMSMART YOUARESTUPID* comments.
Also the immaturity level it showing up. We can flame each other all day long and have the mods shutting down this section of the forums, or we can grow up and handle things the mature way.

 

[IcEWoLF]

WB blindsided back stabbing is what dealt the hardest blow. Especially considering they looked at all the facts & figures and decided to side with HD DVD.
Some of the arsenal Diogen was speaking of includes these new high powered up converting DVD players. If very hard feelings remain I can see Toshiba dumping this product for $50-$75 and as you say “f*ck up BD's world domination plans” big time. J6P given the choice between seeing their DVD’s with these new up converting players or a $500 BD will no doubt select Toshiba’s up converter. Especially considering viewing on these new up converters will be the most amazing thing they would have ever seem. This fact my son can go a long way towards "f*cking up BD's world domination plans"!!!

Toshiba can't f*ck BD's *world domination* without studios in few months.
How can they f*ck something if they ain't got no movies to release when Paramount/Universal join Blu-ray?
I don't see them being too successful, Toshiba is going for the money, unless they want to go bankrupt if they keep pushing HD-DVD..

 

[diogen]

Next time try to be more specific...

I will.
If there is a slightest chance you show up and decide to chime in - I'll make it as simple as possible.

...instead of flaming others with your *IAMSMART YOUARESTUPID* comments.

Not my fault that the second is so often true, especially those that "readed" it...

Also the immaturity level it showing up. We can flame each other all day long...

No, we can't. See above.

Diogen.

 

[JamesJ]

hey guys no one really cares about your pissing match, so lets not get too into that....also please dont edit out cuss words with a * as we still know what it is, this is a family/work site, and we try to keep it that way, so if you are going to put a * in, dont put it down at all, thanks.

 

[nonrev]

Not my fault that the second is so often true, especially those that "readed" it...
Diogen.

LOL He'll never live that one down.

For those of you wondering what we are talking about:
http://www.satelliteguys.us/1213154-post5.html

 

[gck105]

Home Media Magazine - Bringing Digital Entertainment To You

This article suggests that they will be dumping HD DVD within a few weeks. That sounds a little early for me, but the quote in the article from the PR person isn't nearly as positive as previous quotes.

 

[rockymtnhigh]

Only got through the first page of this thread, but it strikes me that if they make a BD player, they will go purple, as a combo player. AND if they do, I would suspect it would be priced much more competitively then SONY is on stand-alones.

I wonder though if they would have one as early as this summer.

 

[JohnL]

hey if they do develop a bluray, can they at least update the firmware in my 42HL167 so that my one input would read Bluray and NOT HD DVD as they have so lovingly put in the input labels.

Stuart,

First off the Lens in the HD DVD Players are incapable of reading BD discs even with a firmware update. The reason is the lens in the HD DVD is not capable of seeing the smaller pits of BD discs, as BD pits and lans are much smaller so data can be packed more densely.

On the reverse side its quite possible that BD players could get a firmware release to be able to read HD DVD discs as BD Players' lens could easily read the less Dense pits and lans of HD DVD discs. Though the only way this could work would be for Toshiba to allow BD players to get a firmware update to allow for HD DVD discs to be read by BD players.

John

 

[JohnL]

Only got through the first page of this thread, but it strikes me that if they make a BD player, they will go purple, as a combo player. AND if they do, I would suspect it would be priced much more competitively then SONY is on stand-alones.

I wonder though if they would have one as early as this summer.

Rocky,


Talk about rampant speculating. Once Toshiba admits defeat to BD, and we all know its coming, why would Toshiba want to continue losing over a hundred bucks per player sold? BD players will end up being a commodity just like the rest of the electronics industry, as such price points will come down quickly as more brand names start producing the ONE HDm format players.

Toshiba has sold and is selling HD-DVD players for vastly less than the cost to produce them for only one reason, garnering royalty payments from other companies that want to reproduce their patented technology. Once that carrot is gone Toshiba is not going to be willing to lose money per player with no possibility of a later payoff.

There is no way Toshiba is going to sink another huge investment into a combo player at this point in time, second if they were stupid enough to do it said player would be vastly more expensive to produce than any Single format Player. Considering they are already losing money on every Single format HD-DVD player, how or why would they spend another 100 million or so to develop and produce a dual format player that could NEVER make money at a price point less than a Single Format BD player. Companies exist to make money, and it this point its apparent to everybody even Toshiba that HD-DVD can't succeed as a profitable entity.

I'm quite sure Toshiba is negotiating behind to the scenes to save some face, at this point Sony and the BD camp might be willing to cover some costs or provide some incentives to Toshiba if they go public announcing, "Their Plan" to discontinue HD-DVD, with all Current HD-DVD owners getting a discounted upgrade path to Toshiba's new BD Player in return for allowing all Current BD Players to get a firmware update to play both HD-DVD discs and BD discs, as long as HD-DVD disc production is halted.

John

 

[gck105]

Stuart,

First off the Lens in the HD DVD Players are incapable of reading BD discs even with a firmware update. The reason is the lens in the HD DVD is not capable of seeing the smaller pits of BD discs, as BD pits and lans are much smaller so data can be packed more densely.

On the reverse side its quite possible that BD players could get a firmware release to be able to read HD DVD discs as BD Players' lens could easily read the less Dense pits and lans of HD DVD discs. Though the only way this could work would be for Toshiba to allow BD players to get a firmware update to allow for HD DVD discs to be read by BD players.

John

He was talking about his Toshiba TV, I think. Toshiba TVs allow you to label the inputs, and HD DVD is one of the display choices. He is saying he would like an update to show Blu-ray instead.

 

[IcEWoLF]

LOL He'll never live that one down.

For those of you wondering what we are talking about:
http://www.satelliteguys.us/1213154-post5.html

You look like someone that never misspelled a word before.