Two UHF antennas or one plus a rotor

raylock

Active SatelliteGuys Member
Original poster
Feb 4, 2006
20
0
New Jersey
I live in NJ and am looking to receive some stations from both NYC and Philadelphia. The NYC stations are 24 miles at 90d and the Philadelphia stations are 61 miles at 237d. Is it possible or practicable to put two UHF antennas on one mast, one for each set of stations, or must I just use one antenna with a rotor. If I can use two antennas on the same support, how much vertical separation should there be? Can I use the same coax from the lower antenna to the receiver? I assume I will need a preamp because of the distance from Phil and trees in the NYC direction. Any help or advice would be appreciated. Thanks

Ray
 
You will need two seperate coax runs into the house and then a manual A/B switch to select the antenna you intend to use. You shouldn't connect them together any other way if you want to avoid multipath issues. That also means a seperate pre-amp for the Phily antenna with the power supply located between the switch and pre-amp and possibly another one for NYC.

Because they are looking in different directions the seperation does not need to be great, about half a meter should do. The biggest problem is that 61 miles is on the horizon and will result in frequent dropouts from Philly unless the antenna is located 25 feet or more above the ground.

Your not going to able to seemlessly channel surf between the two markets with any setup.
 
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Agree with that 60 mile limit...you can have great pictures at 50-55 miles then all of a sudden at 60 ...there is a drop off in signal...nothing you can do about the curvature of the earth...unless you go higher.

I own the 8200p and hdp269 preamp with great results

rick
 
NightHawk said:
You will need two seperate coax runs into the house and then a manual A/B switch to select the antenna you intend to use. You shouldn't connect them together any other way if you want to avoid multipath issues. That also means a seperate pre-amp for the Phily antenna with the power supply located between the switch and pre-amp and possibly another one for NYC.

Because they are looking in different directions the seperation does not need to be great, about half a meter should do. The biggest problem is that 61 miles is on the horizon and will result in frequent dropouts from Philly unless the antenna is located 25 feet or more above the ground.

Your not going to able to seemlessly channel surf between the two markets with any setup.

nighthawk, what is that in the first paragraph? if you don't know enough about sending and receiving radio frequencies please stop misinforming people.
 
Suggest 1 antenna with rotor. With all the channels down there I would suggest the winegard hd8200p with the hdp269 preamp with a rotor.

The other higher gain preamps will cause overload from 24 miles away from towers and all the other "stuff" down there around you...61 miles will require height and will be a challenge for ya.
 
roashru said:
nighthawk, what is that in the first paragraph? if you don't know enough about sending and receiving radio frequencies please stop misinforming people.

Please explain your cryptic criticism. If you take issue with my post I can provide technical justification for any recommendation I make.

It so happens I have an extensive RF engineering background with over 30 years experience designing sophisticated radar equipment, conducting electronic countermeasures and radar cross section testing, antenna range testing and RF equipment T&E as a civilian engineer for the U.S. Navy. I have a commercial 1'st class FCC ticket and a E.E. degree. I send and receive RF signals of extraordinary complexity and magnitude every day, using RF equipment you probably wouldn't be able to turn on. I am currently the lead RF engineer at a world-class radar cross section test range. Who are you to criticize me that way?

Additionally, capitalization is accomplished by first pushing the shift key and then the letter of choice. It makes thing easier to read for most people.
 
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NightHawk said:
Please explain your cryptic criticism. If you take issue with my post I can provide technical justification for any recommendation I make.

It so happens I have an extensive RF engineering background with over 30 years experience designing sophisticated radar equipment, conducting electronic countermeasures and radar cross section testing, antenna range testing and RF equipment T&E as a civilian engineer for the U.S. Navy. I have a commercial 1'st class FCC ticket and a E.E. degree. I send and receive RF signals of extraordinary complexity and magnitude every day, using RF equipment you probably wouldn't be able to turn on. I am currently the lead RF engineer at a world-class radar cross section test range. Who are you to criticize me that way?

Additionally, capitalization is accomplished by first pushing the shift key and then the letter of choice. It makes thing easier to read for most people.

ok, from what you say you know something about radio looks like mostly component/parts changing and reading test equipment thats not hard to do at all people from malaysia and india are coming to the u.s. to do those jobs. you still did'nt answer my question. sorry to anger you.
 
That's a poor way to ask a question, embedded in an insult.

The OP wanted to know if he could combine two antennas facing two different directions on a single coax input to the receiver. While this is certainly possible it has potential problems. Two combined antennas create an antenna array, this one with an unpredictable aperture. Any particular station will combine to produce a resultant signal which may be in-phase (good) or out of phase (bad) or anything in between depending on frequency and reflective surfaces around him. The result is exactly the same as un-wanted multipath. Because there is no advantage from an RF perspective, it's best avoided. Most users in that situation will be better served with the isolation provided by a switch, especially since at 61 miles his reception from one of the markets will be unreliable and hence infrequently used.

Components/parts changing? What the hell are you talking about.:confused:
 
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raylock said:
I live in NJ and am looking to receive some stations from both NYC and Philadelphia. The NYC stations are 24 miles at 90d and the Philadelphia stations are 61 miles at 237d. Is it possible or practicable to put two UHF antennas on one mast, one for each set of stations, or must I just use one antenna with a rotor. If I can use two antennas on the same support, how much vertical separation should there be? Can I use the same coax from the lower antenna to the receiver? I assume I will need a preamp because of the distance from Phil and trees in the NYC direction. Any help or advice would be appreciated. Thanks

Ray
NY should not be a problem but Philly might. Depending on what channels out of Philly your looking to get, I'm 57 miles out and this is what I can get with a CM4228 with pre amp and rotor,
KYW 3 strong
WPVI 6 Nope
WCAU 10 Blocky during the day stable at night
WB 17 unwatchable
UPN 57 strong
FOX 29 Nope
There's a few religious and ethnic channels that come in pretty good, too.
 
Not a perfect world

Thanks for all of the replies. They were helpful. Johninbrick may have settled my issue. I was hoping to get Fox in Philadelphia since I'm an Eagles fan. If I can't get fox I will just concentrate on NY. That takes me in a completely different direction. I subscribe to comcast internet and pay a big premium because I don't subscribe to cable. I find I can subscribe to limited basic cable and internet for $1 less than I am paying just for internet. And, basic cable includes HD feeds for the local NYC stations. That appears to be the most practicable solution to my problem of not being able to receive the dish 61.5 sat. Thanks again
 
johninbricknj said:
NY should not be a problem but Philly might. Depending on what channels out of Philly your looking to get, I'm 57 miles out and this is what I can get with a CM4228 with pre amp and rotor,
KYW 3 strong
WPVI 6 Nope
WCAU 10 Blocky during the day stable at night
WB 17 unwatchable
UPN 57 strong
FOX 29 Nope

That is not terribly suprising. channel 10 is broadcast on channel 66 or 67 one of the more difficult ones to receive & channel 6 is in the 60s too. channel 3 is the strongest and easiest to receive. Not being able to receive fox is kinda suprising though, that one is usually pretty easy to get.
 
rmmrph said:
That is not terribly suprising. channel 10 is broadcast on channel 66 or 67 one of the more difficult ones to receive & channel 6 is in the 60s too. channel 3 is the strongest and easiest to receive. Not being able to receive fox is kinda suprising though, that one is usually pretty easy to get.
I think Fox 29 has some problems, alot of talk of people not being able to get it, I did get it a while back must of been a weather thing. Mostly get OTA out of NY but no NBC so between NY and Philly I get most major networks for my HD viewing pleasure:) .
 
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