union link for installers not tryin to start trouble

[Chado]

Damn you found the one company that had the exception to this rule. Sadly its a big company that I should have remembered. Either way GM is a horrid company that will never change. Most companies for the most part when forced to cave in will indeed cave in and be better for it. Believe this or not the St. Pete Times just three years ago had one of the best if not the best service for newspapers in the entire country. they are also a major newspaper with tons of customers. They offered health benefits along with many other benefits to both full and part-time employees including carriers. They have always made a profit year after year with every year being a bigger profit. Once they put an article in their own newspaper saying when they would be switching to independant contacts so they can provide better service and newspaper content I knew things would get bad. For one thing the content isn't any better but the paper gets to customers much later than normal while many customers don't get the paper at all while before they always did.

Hahaha!!!! I love playing the GM card!!! Actually, I think unions and companies can work together as long as the company has the correct infrastructure in place to absorb some of the increased cost that a union will create. On the flip side, the union has to realize that it cannot hold the company to fire on every issue as it may cause prolonged negotiations for a new contract, which may equal to a strike. And let me tell you, from growing in a blue collar town that has endured a few union strikes, there is nothing pretty about it. And the terms "union" and "united" go out the window when there are hungry mouths to feed.

I am not sure what you are referring to when you mention the St Pete Times, are they attempting to unionize? Are you saying that a union will get your paper delivered quicker?? Probably just dense this morning and missing your point.

 

[LonghornXP]

Hahaha!!!! I love playing the GM card!!! Actually, I think unions and companies can work together as long as the company has the correct infrastructure in place to absorb some of the increased cost that a union will create. On the flip side, the union has to realize that it cannot hold the company to fire on every issue as it may cause prolonged negotiations for a new contract, which may equal to a strike. And let me tell you, from growing in a blue collar town that has endured a few union strikes, there is nothing pretty about it. And the terms "union" and "united" go out the window when there are hungry mouths to feed.

I am not sure what you are referring to when you mention the St Pete Times, are they attempting to unionize? Are you saying that a union will get your paper delivered quicker?? Probably just dense this morning and missing your point.

I'm saying that the St. Pete Times never had a union in place but the carriers weren't ICs but employees up until three years ago. Once they made this change things have gotten very very very very bad for both the workers and the customers. I was giving this as an example of what companies are doing across the country and why a union would be good for the customers and the workers. The fact is at least in this case is that both the workers and customers are getting screwed so this company could have the Ice Palace called the St. Pete Times Forum. That above is exactly why people should fight and get a union in place. Oh and yes a union can get my paper delivered quicker because three years ago I never had my paper missed and I've always got it before 5:00am every single morning. Now I've cancelled my paper a few months ago because I had to call in 46 straight days because my paper wasn't delivered. I even waiting until 7am (one hour late) before calling in and once I did call in it took the Times until almost 10am until they brought out my paper. Before those 46 days I would be missed several times per week and when I did get the paper it would be underneath my car, in a bush among other places and quite often the paper was wet with half the bag off the paper itself.

The fact is that for 15 straight years up until three years ago I had great service along with many other areas without any carrier having a union in place but they still had the benefit of being an employee. I would be trilled to have things back the way they used to be. I've quit buying the paper just in spite and I read all of my news at sptimes.com for free. I would rather have the paper in my hands but I can't give a company my money and have to fight with them to just get the paper.

 

[Chado]

Oh and yes a union can get my paper delivered quicker because three years ago I never had my paper missed and I've always got it before 5:00am every single morning.

The fact is that for 15 straight years up until three years ago I had great service along with many other areas without any carrier having a union in place but they still had the benefit of being an employee.

Huh?

I think you did the right thing by cancelling your sub, but I still don't see how a union could resolve this issue.?

I still think that unions are a victim of their own success. I also see unions becoming less and less of a force as time goes on and our social economic gap widens and widens.

 

[LonghornXP]

Huh?

I think you did the right thing by cancelling your sub, but I still don't see how a union could resolve this issue.?

I still think that unions are a victim of their own success. I also see unions becoming less and less of a force as time goes on and our social economic gap widens and widens.

I don't agree with you. The more these companies try to pull the more likely it will be for a union to be inplace. The fact is we wouldn't even need a union if companies were just fair with their workers. If they just be fair most workers would never bother to deal with a union. Now we have unions today and in the past because companies don't like to play fair and nobody can deny this. I'm not anti-company, anti-worker, pro-company, pro-worker, anti-union nor pro-union. What I do believe is that neither the company, customers or the workers should get screwed. I believe a strong company is one that has great balance. This company must do whatever it can within reason for their customers. They must also be fair to the workers and by being fair to the workers the workers will be fair to them. When workers have much to lose they tend to avoid testing the waters so if they don't have a union in they won't try and get one. Unions only come about when 1) the company puts it in place on their own or 2) the workers have nothing to lose and force it in.

Right now I believe that companies are going much too far and mark my words it will come back to bite them in the behind. I can't say when or how but it will and always does.

 

[Chado]

Right now I believe that companies are going much too far and mark my words it will come back to bite them in the behind. I can't say when or how but it will and always does.

It's a double-edged sword, especially if you work for a publicly traded company. Do you want your stock options to have value or do you want that extra $1.00 an hour? Don't even start with affordable healthcare, there is no such thing anymore, but most unions won't let go of that which is where you will see the biting in the behind.

I would also reassess that comment you made about UPS not having problems with a union. You might not get that Potter book after all.....

 

[LonghornXP]

It's a double-edged sword, especially if you work for a publicly traded company. Do you want your stock options to have value or do you want that extra $1.00 an hour? Don't even start with affordable healthcare, there is no such thing anymore, but most unions won't let go of that which is where you will see the biting in the behind.

I would also reassess that comment you made about UPS not having problems with a union. You might not get that Potter book after all.....

Oh and I wouldn't worry about UPS because they will indeed pull off a little bit of magic on July 16.

I deal with UPS all of the time and so does MacDill AFB and I've talked to many workers over many years and they are very much happy and UPS has only gotten more business as time went on. I'm even on first name basis with the vice president of operations in the southest devision who also sits on the board with the union and is indeed involved with the union directly. Trust me I would hear it from him first hand before you would read it. Their latest union contract stayed the same by the workers choice and on top of that UPS gave everyone across the board a raise on their own. When the workers take the same contract as the year before and the company decides on their own to pay the workers more I'm pretty sure that everyone involved is happy.

 

[Chado]

Hahahaha!!! No offense intended, but your arrogance gets in the way of your sense of understanding. I am sorry that the VP of Operations for the SE division didn't give you this news first hand. Try doing a google search on UPS & IPA.

I think we are getting off topic, so I will let my previous posts speak for themselves.

 

[LonghornXP]

Hahahaha!!! No offense intended, but your arrogance gets in the way of your sense of understanding. I am sorry that the VP of Operations for the SE division didn't give you this news first hand. Try doing a google search on UPS & IPA.

I think we are getting off topic, so I will let my previous posts speak for themselves.

Oh I'm talking about ground workers. Pilots have different heads and departments along with a different union contract. Again they can still run everything from the ground if need be. I will agree with you on this. Also keep in mind that this problem is occuring because the pilots are indeed chewing off more than they can chew. Again that happens to be the bad side to a union but like I've always said there are many more downsides not having a union versus having one.

 

[Chado]

Great back and forth by the way!!! Just trying to get people to see different sides.

 

[LonghornXP]

Great back and forth by the way!!! Just trying to get people to see different sides.

Not really a back and forth. Oh and my post above I meant to say that union is chewing off more than they can chew not the pilots. My mistake on that one. That is the bad side of a union when you have a bad union. But remember that ground workers have a different union company than the pilots. Right now that union article is wording it like UPS isn't giving them breaks and paying less but their wording is very misleading compared to what is really going on. You would be amazed to find out that UPS and the pilots are trying to get another union to take them on and fire this union. Again my suggestion is don't believe everything you read and as such I wouldn't be upset if you didn't believe me. Just remember that some people do indeed know more about what is going on. One of the reasons I know so much about what is going on is because of who I know at the FAA. When union deals go sour the FAA tends to pay a little more attention to current events.

 

[uboatcmdr]

I don't think some of you in this thread have actually read my posts. There are specific reasons why we are seeking a union, I will attempt to explain it once more, maybe this time some of you will get the point. Here goes:

As it stands in my company the techs want a union so we will have more power at the bargaining table (a legally organized group can give you more power than a bunch of individualists when it comes to negotiating with your employer). Our company is planning to cut our salary to pay for it's new fleet of vehicles (the techs currently use their personal vehicles). This planned cut in salary will equal nearly half of each tech's earnings. Also, while the salary is being cut the workload will be increased, and by doing that the company will actually be cutting pay further. The techs in my company are not asking for MORE money, we are just asking that our salaries not be cut nearly as much as planned. Under the companies plan most of the techs would be forced to either seek employment elsewhere or file for bankruptcy.
Like LonghornXP has said, installtions are not something that can be OUTSOURCED, so throw that arguement out the window. No one here is asking for more money, so you can also pitch out that BS that the union will try to drive salaries up and the company out of business. I am fighting to keep my job the way it is (or close to it) so why on God's green earth would I want the company I work for to go out of business? If they fail then I wind up beating the streets looking for another job. I and my fellow techs are not the ones being greedy here, we are not asking for anything we don't already have. The only greedy one here is the company.

 

[Chado]

UBoat,

I have read your posts and have replied in other threads. I understand your point and appreciate your passion for this topic.

I would appreciate that you don't disregard other comments as "BS" when you don't know what the future may hold. You may be looking for what you have now, but who's to say that you won't use your newly found union power to ask for more than a cost of living increase a few years down the road? Unions get greedy and its the people paying the union dues that are the first to suffer because of it.

 

[uboatcmdr]

UBoat,
(snip)
I would appreciate that you don't disregard other comments as "BS" when you don't know what the future may hold. (snip)

The comments I am disregarding as "BS" are those that state how the union WILL drive salaries up and the company out of business. What do you think a union is? A bunch of fat cats who drive the world from dark smoke filled rooms? In the CWA the union is made up of working class stiffs who got tired of being shafted and joined together to do something about it. I have met a number of CWA members, organizers & officals, none of them are getting fat off of the members' dues. As I said, what worker or union in it's right mind would want to drive a company out of business, if the company fails then so does the worker and the union. It is plain to see, even by your analogy (that unions only care about dues) that the CWA has no desire to bankrupt a company, no company equals no workers, no workers equals no dues and no dues equals no union. Correct? So what is the motive for the union to ruin the company? There is none.
On the other hand what is th motive for the company to drive the employee into bankruptcy? It is pure greed, that's all. The company (in this case) is buying the fleet vehicle so they will have some REAL assets, and they are reducing salaries to pay for those vehicles and to boost (on paper) their profit margins. They are doing this because they plan to sell the company within the next couple of years. With real physical assets (a fleet of vehicles) and about two years worth of boosted profits on the books they can get a much better price for the company. I'm not saying they deserve to make a bundle if & when they sell the company, but I would prefer that bundle didn't come out of my pocket or take food from the mouths of my children.
Trust me if your boss announced that your company was starting next month going to provide each employee with transportation to & from work, but that each employee had to take a 50% pay cut to pay for the new plan, you'd be scrambling to keep it from happening.

But I do see your point, no one knows what the future may hold, it may hold a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow, or another pile of sh*t that just need shovelling. Whether it's gold or sh*t all depends on what you do now. What I am trying to say is that life is what you make of it, you have to work for the good things not just take what is handed to you.

 

[smays]

Every decent sized company that has a union in place today is doing very well.

Like GM, Chrysler, Delta, US Air, etc, etc, etc.

I just wish people would actually do some research instead of always posting what they believe to be true but isn't.

I agree!

 

[sateck01]

u-boat,

yes a union is a bunch of fat b#stards in a room determining how much you will make and how much they will take from you , all the while taking SCRATCH from the company , cases of hooch on the front porch on dec 23rd and fireworks on the garbage cans on july 1.

you are a dreamer, ill go to the greviance man and get this fixed.......NOT


go flip burgers, or work at wal mart and try to unionize them.

i really feel bad for you

i do

 

[Tobie]

As far as pay and my company are concerned, this is not a big issue with me, they pay well, well enough for me to want to keep on keepin on with it. sence I last posted, I checked with a union rep. (cwa), and he informed me that to get it started I would need to get at least 2-3 trusted guys together who could keep there mouths shut until it went before the labor board, once passed by the labor board, the employers would be contacted by the union and every employee would basicly vote on it, and if there was at least 51% who voted for the union, then The union would come in and negotiate with employers according to what employees had reported as greviences. But before a vote was passed The company would know who contacted the union, and after the vote, if failed, the company could and most likely would weed out those who propogated`to begin with being an at will state, employers can, will, and do fire anyone for anything they please, they dont need reason or cause, in which can lead for many oppertunitys for employee abuse. Never the less, I dont know Even 3 guys I belive I could trust, or would have the gonads to stand up and fight for fairness or equality, But they sure as hell like to complain, kinda like me I guess, Except I would fight and raise as much justified hell as I could, If I could see any way of creating any good from it, because from what im seeing, things wont improve as far as quality of life for the workers unless they are givin rights as employees. so In this state, a union is really the only source for providing those means, of basic human rights. This is why My user name Is "tobie" because I live In a slave state. We are all slaves for the man, But there is a difference in quality of life, when Your masters are required to make just causes for or against you, not just because they might get a hair up their ass and want to scratch,...or work you 20 hours in a day, with out compinsating for your time or loss of vitality when you are back at it 7 am the next day. 20 hours is not typical, but it has happend to me. typically I work anywhere from 10-15 hours a day on commission, and an overtime pay that goes down in payscale after so many hours. So in this case I think I am going to do as Phatnuts sugested and look for other solutions, And I will also keep the union in mind, and wait on some inpiration of some kind to motivate me to have enough energy and determination to propigate some sort of movement with co- workers to raise up. In other words when or if I gat to the point where I cant take it any more, and I have nothing to loose except my job attitude steps in, then, that will probably be my move, because I know at this point, my co workers (idahons) are conditioned to accept what is put on there plate, the dont know or have a clue that they dont have to eat sh*t just because its fed to them. Maybe I am wrong, If any other installers in Idaho Have simular Views Give me a shout out, Id like to know Im not the only one here. Anyways, my wife who I dont spend enough time with as it is is bitchin for me to get off the computer, so Im out..... one more note. Id love to organize, IDAHO!!!! if your out there, send some feed back. there is power in numbers, I am one......

 

[HCI]

u-boat,

yes a union is a bunch of fat b#stards in a room determining how much you will make and how much they will take from you , all the while taking SCRATCH from the company , cases of hooch on the front porch on dec 23rd and fireworks on the garbage cans on july 1.

you are a dreamer, ill go to the greviance man and get this fixed.......NOT


go flip burgers, or work at wal mart and try to unionize them.

i really feel bad for you

i do

This guy makes an excellent point, When you belong to a union you get told how much you make. Unions are a bunch of bs. Come on people do you really think direct or dish is going to pay more just because installers are in a union. Then you have the problem of the installers that do a Sh*t job, Do you want your name to be connected to these people "I sure the hell would not". I belive they are the reason behind some of this crap. I do agree that hourly rates for installs are bullSh*t.

 

[Chado]

But I do see your point, no one knows what the future may hold, it may hold a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow, or another pile of sh*t that just need shovelling. Whether it's gold or sh*t all depends on what you do now. What I am trying to say is that life is what you make of it, you have to work for the good things not just take what is handed to you.

Well said. My point throughout, that I probably stressed better in another thread, is that the installer life, as you know it, is probably over. The bad news has been described by yourself. The good news is that you know what is coming, which may not seem like much, but trust me, it is. You now have the ability to do something about it. Whatever you choose, good luck!!

This is why My user name Is "tobie" because I live In a slave state. We are all slaves for the man, But there is a difference in quality of life, when Your masters are required to make just causes for or against you, not just because they might get a hair up their ass and want to scratch.

Although I can't possibly understand your position, I do think that you are being a bit drastic when you refer to the word "slave." Are you really a "slave". You were given choices at some time in your life that you made that put you in this position. Time to accept this and move on. It sounds like you are very smart person that has actually thought about this which I commend, but don't be so dramatic with your choice of words.

 

[Tobie]

No, Chado Your right, The word slave IS a bit dramitic, I do have Choices, however limited they may be If I want to stay in this field. Thats something slaves never had. I chose the word slave to decribe a Kind of mantality that some employers may have concerning their expectations, of do or else, even if wat may be asked of may not equal to what realisticly can be done with out a high number or employee over turn, burn out. As For Tate satelite, I guess Ingnorance Is bliss, Must be nice To spit out a bunch of sh*t without knowin what your talkin about. Althoe I do agree that there are a bunch of crappy installs, and installers out there who dont take any pride or effort to do a decent install, I come across them every day, Thoe in my company, I would not have a job If I would do half the crap I see other companys get away with, but I guess that why my company pays as they do. I guess maybe that Is why Maybe other companys pay as they do, or maybe that is why other employees of other companys may do these so called crapie installs, like the old saying goes,-- you get what you pay for, .... I belive this. So as for Unions, or the Cwa, I have done a great deal of research, I dont see It as a bad Idea, But In my case, It aint about the Benjamins, Its about Regulating work conditions so the little guy can do somthihg mor than just bitch on a web sight. I do appreciate everyones coments made, even if negetive, It gives me a reflection on what kind of attitudes exist out there on the subjuct, Keep um comin. Until then..... Another day at the Grind

 

[Chado]

No, Chado Your right, The word slave IS a bit dramitic, I do have Choices, however limited they may be If I want to stay in this field. Thats something slaves never had. I chose the word slave to decribe a Kind of mantality that some employers may have concerning their expectations, of do or else, even if wat may be asked of may not equal to what realisticly can be done with out a high number or employee over turn, burn out. As For Tate satelite, I guess Ingnorance Is bliss, Must be nice To spit out a bunch of sh*t without knowin what your talkin about. Althoe I do agree that there are a bunch of crappy installs, and installers out there who dont take any pride or effort to do a decent install, I come across them every day, Thoe in my company, I would not have a job If I would do half the crap I see other companys get away with, but I guess that why my company pays as they do. I guess maybe that Is why Maybe other companys pay as they do, or maybe that is why other employees of other companys may do these so called crapie installs, like the old saying goes,-- you get what you pay for, .... I belive this. So as for Unions, or the Cwa, I have done a great deal of research, I dont see It as a bad Idea, But In my case, It aint about the Benjamins, Its about Regulating work conditions so the little guy can do somthihg mor than just bitch on a web sight. I do appreciate everyones coments made, even if negetive, It gives me a reflection on what kind of attitudes exist out there on the subjuct, Keep um comin. Until then..... Another day at the Grind

I hear ya!!! I am not as grouchy either, imagine what a cup of coffee will do for you!!