Updated: Court blocks Permanent Injuction ordering DISH DVRs disabled

Pepper said:
There is also no coincidence that most all cars have the same number of tires and use essentially the same type of engine and drive mechanism. At least the patent office didn't allow Henry Ford to sue every other car manufacturer out of business or we'd still be driving Model T's.

These functions you refer to are not unique to DVRs, they are just the logical next step from the same functions provided in less sophisticated form by VCRs.

Actually, there were lots of lawsuits at the beginning of the automobile business & as an aside, the Wright Brothers went through the same thing. The real difference now is that it used to be 17 years, now it is more or less indefinate patent protection.
 
Sevenfeet said:
Uh no. Tivo was a legitimate pioneer in this business, about the same time as Replay. The legal point is that Tivo was first to the patent office and has been able to successfully defend that position against Replay years ago (and where is Replay now?). Things like MythTV didn't come around until later. And the fact that Tivo is dependant on Linux itself is irrelevant in this case. Simple video capture on PCs goes back nearly 20 years, but can you really say that those products were functional DVRs? No.

The idea of doing a DVR, as well as a successful implementation is not a trivial thing, especially 9 years ago when development first started. Sure it's been copied, but I think Tivo invented a category and has a right to defend its intellectual property. Do I think the current patent system is broken and bad companies run amok? Of course. But this is one case I think that Tivo has a case and they have certainly been mostly successful convincing the courts of that too.

Sevenfeet, it is my understanding that for something to be patented it has to be non-trivial & novel. I agree with you, this is non-trivial but in your opinion do you think it is novel as well?
 
TiVo Statement in Response to Decision to Temporarily Block Injunction

TiVo Statement in Response to the Federal Circuit Court of Appeals' Decision to Temporarily Block Injunction

ALVISO, Calif., Aug. 18 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- TiVo Inc. (Nasdaq:
TIVO), the creator of and a leader in television services for digital video
recorders (DVR), today offered the following statement on the Federal
Circuit Court of Appeals in Washington, D.C. decision to temporarily block
the injunction ordered by U.S. District Court Judge David Folsom:

The company said, "We are very pleased by recent developments involving
the issuance of a permanent injunction in our patent case against EchoStar
by the United States District Court, Eastern District of Texas. The court
of appeals temporarily stayed the district court injunction until it
reviews the papers submitted by the parties and decides whether a stay
should or should not be in effect for the duration of the appeals process.
The court stated that the temporary stay is not based on a consideration of
the merits of EchoStar's request, and is entered to preserve the status quo
while the court considers the parties' papers."

About TiVo
Founded in 1997, TiVo pioneered a brand new category of products with
the development of the first commercially available digital video recorder
(DVR). Sold through leading consumer electronic retailers, TiVo has
developed a brand which resonates boldly with consumers as providing a
superior television experience. Through agreements with leading satellite
and cable providers, TiVo also integrates its full set of DVR service
features into the set-top boxes of mass distributors. TiVo's DVR
functionality and ease of use, with such features as Season Pass(TM)
recordings and WishList(R) searches, has elevated its popularity among
consumers and has created a whole new way for viewers to watch television.

With a continued investment in its patented technologies, TiVo is
revolutionizing the way consumers watch and access home entertainment.
Rapidly becoming the focal point of the digital living room, TiVo's DVR is
at the center of experiencing new forms of content on the TV, such as
broadband delivered video, music and photos. With innovative features such
as, TiVoToGo(TM) and online scheduling, TiVo is expanding the notion of
consumers experiencing "TiVo, TV your way." The TiVo(R) service is also at
the forefront of providing innovative marketing solutions for the
television industry, including a unique platform for advertisers and
audience measurement research. The company is based in Alviso, Calif.

This release contains certain forward-looking statements within the
meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. These
statements relate to, among other things, TiVo's business, services,
financial statements, future product strategy, and the impact of the
EchoStar litigation. Forward-looking statements generally can be identified
by the use of forward-looking terminology such as, "believe," "expect,"
"may," "will," "intend," "estimate," "continue," or similar expressions or
the negative of those terms or expressions. Such statements involve risks
and uncertainties, which could cause actual results to vary materially from
those expressed in or indicated by the forward-looking statements. Factors
that may cause actual results to differ materially include delays in
development, competitive service offerings and lack of market acceptance,
as well as the other potential factors described under "Risk Factors" in
the Company's public reports filed with the Securities and Exchange
Commission, including the Company's Annual Report on Form 10-K for the
fiscal year ended January 31, 2006, as updated by subsequent Quarterly
Reports on Form 10-Q and Current Reports on Form 8-K. The Company cautions
you not to place undue reliance on forward-looking statements, which
reflect an analysis only and speak only as of the date hereof. TiVo
disclaims any obligation to update these forward- looking statements.


SOURCE TiVo Inc.
 
Mtnmike said:
Then Joe Q public must not watch or read the news, and Joe Q Public makes up most of the current or potential customer base.
What major news outlets have carried this story ?? A search for "tivo" or "echostar" turns up a 3-paragraph story from the day's "digest" of various stories. If there's not a link on the front page, people likely won't run across it. Has it been on CNN's tv news ??

A search at news.google.com turns up even fewer results when searching for "tivo".
 
Bountykiller said:
q: I have a 622 and that isnt on the list of receivers on the court order... how is that right!? It has a HD So Can i assume safely that I wont be shut off?
HD is a non-factor in this case. Searching the thread will give you your answer too.
 
hall said:
What major news outlets have carried this story ??

If it does not involve Karr or snakes on a plane, its not news this weekend. I expect it to show later in the week like lots of TV news that gets in line behind whatever is hot at the moment.
 
slick1ru2 said:
If it does not involve Karr or snakes on a plane, its not news this weekend.

Oh boy. Karr's on a plane right now. Cue the snakes in 3 ... 2 ... :yikes
 
hall said:
What major news outlets have carried this story ?? A search for "tivo" or "echostar" turns up a 3-paragraph story from the day's "digest" of various stories. If there's not a link on the front page, people likely won't run across it. Has it been on CNN's tv news ??

A search at news.google.com turns up even fewer results when searching for "tivo".

Well it was on Fox News Channel & CNBC the day it broke. I don't watch CNN but something tells me they wouldn't be left out. It was on all Denver area local news channels, and in the newspaper the next day. It was headlined on my ISP's home page news section along with other national news. So believe what you want but it was a big story that day, and a lot of "Joe Q Publics" saw it. You are only kidding yourself if you don't think the word is out my friend.

Type: "Echostar Tivo lawsuit" or even better "Judge rules Echostar must disable DVRs" into Google search and see what happens.

BTW an acquaintance of mine called DirecTV yesterday as a Dish customer wanting to know what incentives he would get to switch. He was treated like a long lost lover and was made an offer that would be hard to refuse even with the 2 year commitment:

Total Choice Plus with $10 per month credit
6 months HBO free
6 months Showtime free
4 months free HD Programming Package
HD locals
AT-9 HD antennae at no charge
3 H-20 HD mpeg-2/4 receivers ($99 ea value at no charge) with free a upgrade on any one of them to the new HR20-700 DVR ($399 value at no charge) when it is released this fall.
Free installation and set up of all.

After all the free stuff and account credit expires, and if he kept all the extra programming that comes with this offer, he would be paying less than $100 per month (including receiver fees). He didn't switch but after taking his info and marking that offer under his name he was told the above offer would be good for 30 days and all he had to do was give CS his name ETC and it would be in the comments on his temporary account.
 
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Mtnmike said:
BTW an acquaintance of mine called DirecTV yesterday as a Dish customer wanting to know what incentives he would get to switch. He was treated like a long lost lover and was made an offer that would be hard to refuse even with the 2 year commitment:

Total Choice Plus with $10 per month credit
6 months HBO free
6 months Showtime free
4 months free HD Programming Package
HD locals
AT-9 HD antennae
3 H-20 HD mpeg-2/4 receivers ($99 ea value) with free a upgrade on any one of them to the new HR20-700 DVR ($399 value) when it is released this fall.
Free installation and set up of all.

After all the free stuff and account credit expires, and if he kept all the extra programming that comes with this offer, he would be paying less than $100 per month (including receiver fees). He didn't switch but after taking his info and marking that offer under his name he was told the above offer would be good for 30 days and all he had to do was give CS his name ETC and it would be in the comments on his temporary account.

I pay $108 a month on my Dish bill. I have two DVR receivers and Platinum. How is $100 (or slightly less) all that great? Don't get me wrong, if the DVR thing really became a problem then I might be forced to look into my options, but for now, Dish is clearly the better deal over DirecTV.
 
So if the TiVo lawsuit stands I wonder if they'll go after companies with DVD recorders that can do "time warp" - like recordings on DVD RAM disks. And what about Windows XP Media Edition and other software that can do the same thing?
 
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Dish should go ahead and BUY TIVO . THen he will make the lawsuit go bye bye and he will get revenue from all stand alone receivers and Directv tivos. He will also have a way into the Best Buy , Ciruit City stores with the Stand alone tivos. THink of all the software Dish could use from the tivos. It would be much cheaper in the long run if he did this rather than pay78 million to Tivo and pay a fee on each Dvr receiver.

For once I wish Charlie would just do the expediant thing here and quit playing with the courts. He kept the distant networks lawsuit going since 1998 and he could have just finished the locals in the country and the need for the distant networks would not been as great. He also would have added a whole lot of customers who can't get their locals. Face it most people want their own locals , distants networks are for time shifting and for local black outs .

It is time to settle the lawsuits already.
 
"Dish should go ahead and BUY TIVO"
"Is Tivo for sale?"

Good question - lots of people on this forum have speculated that Dish could/should buy TIVO.

What I'm wondering is, is this realistic given Dish's/Tivo's financial situations?
Has anyone with the proper know how (umm, that's not me!) checked to see if it's financially realistic that this could happen? I'm not sure what Tivo's valued at or what Dish's capital stucture/size is. Do we have any financial analysts hanging here who could comment? Or maybe some of the people who commented actually have the proper background to make this statement and didn't come out of the closet as being knowledgeable in this area?
 
From the Tivo website:

Tivo's Website said:
TiVo is a pioneer in Digital Video Recorder (DVR) products and services. TiVo is a relatively small company whose entire business centers around expanding and advancing DVR functionality and technology. TiVo introduced DVRs to consumers and protected its inventions with patents. EchoStar is a very large media company that provides DVR products and services in direct competition with TiVo. Unlike TiVo partners such as DIRECTV and Comcast, EchoStar has refused to enter into an agreement with TiVo which left TiVo no choice but to defend its intellectual property in federal court.

After several years of expensive litigation, in April 2006, EchoStar's DVR products were found by a jury to be infringing one of TiVo's patents. TiVo is pleased that a federal court has recognized that TiVo's business will be irreparably harmed if EchoStar were allowed to continue to infringe TiVo's patent. Any shutdown of DVR functionality for existing DISH Network customers is entirely and directly due to EchoStar's infringement of TiVo's patent rights. It is unfortunate that DISH Network's actions have put its customers in the awkward position of potentially having DVR functionality disabled but DISH Network customers who want to ensure uninterrupted DVR service can get DVR products and services from TiVo and its partners.

If you would like more information about products from TiVo and its partners, please complete the form below.

I hate to be the one to tell TIVO, but even if they get my DVR turned off I still will not buy one of their "products". Trying to force people to buy their product is just on a good way of doing business. Kill of the competition to force them to have to buy from you....
 
Question

Does this mean I can order a 622? I'm an existing customer and looking to get the HD DVR.

Or are they going to tell me they cannot sell new ones until the appeal goes through?
 
jcrash said:
Does this mean I can order a 622? I'm an existing customer and looking to get the HD DVR.

Or are they going to tell me they cannot sell new ones until the appeal goes through?

You're fine (for now). Order away. :up
 
While I'm going to keep following this story, I'm not going to worry about it. One way or another, it will get sorted out and Dish will keep providing the same level of DVR quality that we have today. There is no way Dish is going to give up it's terrific position in the satellite market right now because of this. They would be incredibly stupid to. As others have stated, they could buy a license, they could modify the technology, etc. The temporary stay buys them more time. Yes they will try to drag this out as long as possible. No, if this finally comes to a head, they will not simply shut off the DVRs. They will do something more sensible. Stay tuned...
 

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