VIP OTA tuner module improvement?

[jscud]

It amazes me that Echostar can build such a great OTA tuner for the DTV Pal and yet still have such a poor performer in the new VIP *k models. I had hoped the new VIP *k OTA modules would be an improvement over the built-ins that the older VIP receivers have, but apparently they are a step backward in sensitivity and not a step forward.

Wouldn't it be great if Echostar designed an improved OTA module for their otherwise great receivers? Not only one that is more sensitive and selective, but one that can also use the PSIP data stream directly. Like a DTVPal module for the VIP receiver.

John

 

[gadgtfreek]

My 722k gets a SS that's only 1-2 less than my 622 had, and almost as good as my tv.

No complaints here, and Im 40 miles from my towers.

 

[Hall]

Not everyone has trouble with OTA reception on their 722k receivers.

 

[riffjim4069]

I had no trouble at all with my 622s at deep-fringe (50+ miles), but I cannot speak of how well they handle multipath issues compared to the DTVPal. As far as PSIP...that's a software and business issue when the ViP series receivers were fielded; E* wants to supply you with their guide data for your OTA locals via the $5 or $6 locals fee.

 

[jscud]

Not everyone has trouble with OTA reception on their 722k receivers.

And not everyone has NO trouble with OTA reception. I am 40+ miles from my OTA stations and can pick up 14 stations. But distance and signal strength aren't the only issue. I live in a mountainous area. The VIP OTA tuner can not handle multipath situations as well as it should. It is very frustrating to have the yellow 'No signal' message pop up for 5 seconds and then return to the program with 71% strength. The exact same signal on my Sony TV tuner or DTVPal tuner is rock solid.

I understand about Dish and it's economic reasons for not using the PSIP data. They get their EPG information from Tribune. But Dish does not always supply the OTA information. I subscribe to the Dish locals for my DMA but 3 out of my 14 OTA stations say 'Digital Service". I have complained to Dish but have gotten no satisfaction.

John

 

[cditty]

My 722K with OTA module has more signal than my TV Tuner.

 

[MikeD-C05]

I find that now after the digital transition ended on 6/12/09, that all my main local ota channels are at 100% strength. When I first got the 722k I didn't pay attention to the instructions and installed the ota module before I downloaded the initial software. This caused me problems on my ota channels ; breakups and pixelations and dropped recordings. I took the ota module out and reinstalled and now I have no problems at all with my ota channels. My echostar dtv plus dvr for ota recordings has the same signal strength- 100% on main networks; Abc/Nbc/Cbs/Cw/Fox.

 

[KAB]

I subscribe to the Dish locals for my DMA but 3 out of my 14 OTA stations say 'Digital Service". I have complained to Dish but have gotten no satisfaction.

John

Those three stations may not be carried by Dish in your locals package.

 

[jscud]

Those three stations may not be carried by Dish in your locals package.

One of he three is Portland ME's Fox station WPFO-HD which is in Dish's SD & HD locals. The other 2 are Maine PBS WMEA aka MPBN-SD and MPBN-HD being broadcast out of Biddeford. Those are a mirror of ME's PBS station in Orono WCBB.

Now I can understand Dish being confused about WMEA having the same programming as WCBB, I have tried to explain that the two are identical....
What I don't understand is the Fox station WPFO-HD . It is in both the Dish Portland SD and HD locals. There is absolutely no excuse for not having the data on that station.

So for all three stations Dish has the information already for their satellite subscribers, but they are not providing it to the OTA viewers.

BTW I am on the border between the Boston MA and Portland ME DMAs. I live in the Boston DMA but am closer to Portland ME. Our local cable company of course has both markets in their lineup. Portland is more local for me than Boston which is why I am interested in receiving those stations. Also I can pick up CW, MyTN and PBS in HD OTA from ME and we all know Dish does not do those for most.

 

[Hall]

Stations can make a change, either intentional or by mistake, to parts of their PSIP data (frequently the TSID) that Dish does read that they in turn use to link the guide data. If they do this, Dish's receivers see an "ID" number but don't know what station to match it to.

 

[DishSubLA]

I find that now after the digital transition ended on 6/12/09, that all my main local ota channels are at 100% strength. When I first got the 722k I didn't pay attention to the instructions and installed the ota module before I downloaded the initial software. This caused me problems on my ota channels ; breakups and pixelations and dropped recordings. I took the ota module out and reinstalled and now I have no problems at all with my ota channels. My echostar dtv plus dvr for ota recordings has the same signal strength- 100% on main networks; Abc/Nbc/Cbs/Cw/Fox.

The failure to follow the instructions that came with the OTA module was (still is?) a very common reason for people having a fair amount of problems. I downloaded the software first on both my K's and NO PROBLEMS EVER with OTA. In fact, Dish OTA pulls in a few channels that Tivo does not.

 

[DishSubLA]

And to add that if Dish want us to pay them for OTA guide info, they should provide COMPLETE OTA guide info. Tivo does it using Tribune, as Dish does. Otherwise, let us chose the PSIP option as part of our locals fee. Since Dish satellite boxes are not converter boxes or such designed for OTA reception, Dish doesn't have to allow the PSIP.

 

[jscud]

The failure to follow the instructions that came with the OTA module was (still is?) a very common reason for people having a fair amount of problems. I downloaded the software first on both my K's and NO PROBLEMS EVER with OTA. In fact, Dish OTA pulls in a few channels that Tivo does not.

So the software does something to enhance the OTA tuner module? Would you think that a properly installed OTA module in a VIP *k receiver would out perform the OTA built-in tuner in the older VIP receiver?

John

 

[gadgtfreek]

Well, it is a pretty cheap tuner.

 

[cummingsje]

I have a 722K and DTVPal and really don't notice much difference between the two (signal strength that is). I think the OP would like the "k" series to allow for PSIP data so you wouldn't necessarily have to subscribe to locals. That would actually be ok. Just not sure how that would integrate into name base timers and the rest of the channels.

 

[MikeD-C05]

I have a 722K and DTVPal and really don't notice much difference between the two (signal strength that is). I think the OP would like the "k" series to allow for PSIP data so you wouldn't necessarily have to subscribe to locals. That would actually be ok. Just not sure how that would integrate into name base timers and the rest of the channels.

I don't see DISH doing that since they want DISH subs to Pay for the DISH locals to have access to the guide data. Now Echostar DTV pal plus dvrs don't require monthly guide payments to make them work, so they give you psip data and Tv guide data too. Different models and different platforms. I would love it if they did allow psip data IF you paid for the DISH locals . Then you would have the best of both guide data. But I have no idea how it would work with name based recording software.

 

[MikeD-C05]

So the software does something to enhance the OTA tuner module? Would you think that a properly installed OTA module in a VIP *k receiver would out perform the OTA built-in tuner in the older VIP receiver?

John

When I first re installed my ota module I got good signal strengths on my ota channels , but I did notice something. There was a difference in signal strengths between one ota tuner and the other on the same channel using pip features. It wasn't that much different , maybe 10 points difference. I think that was due to the ota module splitting one ota tuner into two tuners. Now after the digital transition ended , I notice there is still some difference in strength but it is still within the 10 point range. Not enough to make a difference in lost signal or lost recordings. So I would say the 622/722 vip receiver would have the highest signal strength in comparison to the 722k vip receiver , but only because the ota tuner isn't being split into two ota tuners. But it shouldn't cause you any tuning or recording problems unless your channels are in the 60 range to start with.

 

[jscud]

The failure to follow the instructions that came with the OTA module was (still is?) a very common reason for people having a fair amount of problems. I downloaded the software first on both my K's and NO PROBLEMS EVER with OTA. In fact, Dish OTA pulls in a few channels that Tivo does not.

Okay, I downloaded the User Guide section for the 222k OTA tuner from the Dish website. I did not see anything in there regarding software. It just shows how to insert (or remove) the module. Where are the instructions for installation software? Was there a separate instruction sheet?

John

 

[MikeD-C05]

Make sure that you download what ever is the latest software for the 222k before you install the ota module. Once you install the 222k check what software it is on, then turn it off and let if stay off for about 30 minutes and it should grab what ever is the latest software. THen install the ota module and you ota antenna ,scan for locals and you should be good to go.

 

[DishSubLA]

Okay, I downloaded the User Guide section for the 222k OTA tuner from the Dish website. I did not see anything in there regarding software. It just shows how to insert (or remove) the module. Where are the instructions for installation software? Was there a separate instruction sheet?

John

If you have already installed your 722K, that is plugged it in for the very first time and allowed the long software download when first installing the box, then you are already set to install the OTA module.

What was happening at the first few months the OTA was available, was that people had ordered the then brand-new 722K and the OTA module together in one order, and both had been delivered at the same time, but people (seeming the logical thing to do) installed the module before ever powering the 722K and downloading the long software stream required at installation of the box and the necessary software for best performance of the OTA module within that stream. Those folks had wacky OTA behavior.

So, if your 722K is already operating and functioning as it should, just install the module; if you have a new to you 722K, then you need to connect it to a sat connection and power it up and let the long software download begin and end. This is what one does when they get a new box shipped to them. It's the "install" of the box procedure. Then disconnect the 722K and install the OTA module. Done.