Eric I will agree with you in that aspect. The more tech savvy people are the higher the rate that they do not have a land line. I would say your looking at 5% maybe 7% of the 25-35 age Group use all Cellular. I would keep my Land Line for the simple fact that I can't stand Comcast and I need BroadBand Internet Service. As a tech savvy person would you use FTTP as I talked about before? This is the Land Line of the future and its coming full force in late 2004 and 2005. You will be able to do anything and everything with an OC3 coming into you house. Imagine the Bandwith.
VOOM and Local Phone Issues....
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Stevo,
The more that cellular companies adopt 1 price systems, or offer more minutes and free LD for a decent price then the more people will drop land lines.
Cellular prices were insane in the States, they are getting better. Compare Cellular prices in Canada or better yet the Mid East, they are way ahead of us.
I'm happy with my pricing currently, free LD, free nights/weekends, 3000minutes split between 2 phones and 2 numbers, for $127 with taxes. Thats 60ish per phone, no worries just pick up and dial.
Now with SBC's current pricing it costs me 30 bux just to have a line sitting there without placing a single call.
I'm looking forward to the trend in the south to offer DSL without a phone requirement, wiring is there but you do not require local phone service...why is that? Because more people are moving to cable for broadband and going cellular.
Broadband is a bigger requirement in the US right now I bet than HDTV and I bet its not far behind cellular...availabilit of broadband from another medium and cellular means local bell's really need to adjust.
I would even argue that the Voom box dialing out to verify its existance and as an anti-piracy device is possibly illegal or can bring legal problems to Voom. If its not for PPV but to 'spy' on the consumer, regardless of the reasons why it'll be a problem.
There are issues like this with software, it would be amazingly simple for every software manufactuer to setup a internet verification of itself. Adobe does this with Mac products, they keep a running list of illegal serials and at install the Adobe installer checks. This is not on the PC versions. So why isn't it? Because of the turmoil it would create in larger community. If they are checking this, what else are they checking, what information are the taking in? Even the software packages that do this, Nero comes to mind, it just gives a warning, even though it could gather enough information to go after an individual but it brings a host of legal problems, invasion of privacy, entraptment, etc...
Personally I think thats a pretty out there theory but it can be a valid concern for some and something that Voom needs to consider. Most of us bought Voom because of what we read on sites like this, not because of the commercials or for sure not because of Sears. We are seeing more and more often that consumer feelings on boards like this drive consumer direction more so than all the advertising in the world.
Go back to the consumer base for Voom, I bet a large percentage of it is based around sites like this, no one at work I've talked to had heard of Voom, I've gotten 5 people to sign up in 2 weeks....based on my opinion...and they would not have signed up....based on my opinion....
If information flows from sites like this and we all get a bad taste in our mouths over this, it goes from there, goes back to Voom needs to understand its consumer base and where it grows from.
The more that cellular companies adopt 1 price systems, or offer more minutes and free LD for a decent price then the more people will drop land lines.
Cellular prices were insane in the States, they are getting better. Compare Cellular prices in Canada or better yet the Mid East, they are way ahead of us.
I'm happy with my pricing currently, free LD, free nights/weekends, 3000minutes split between 2 phones and 2 numbers, for $127 with taxes. Thats 60ish per phone, no worries just pick up and dial.
Now with SBC's current pricing it costs me 30 bux just to have a line sitting there without placing a single call.
I'm looking forward to the trend in the south to offer DSL without a phone requirement, wiring is there but you do not require local phone service...why is that? Because more people are moving to cable for broadband and going cellular.
Broadband is a bigger requirement in the US right now I bet than HDTV and I bet its not far behind cellular...availabilit of broadband from another medium and cellular means local bell's really need to adjust.
I would even argue that the Voom box dialing out to verify its existance and as an anti-piracy device is possibly illegal or can bring legal problems to Voom. If its not for PPV but to 'spy' on the consumer, regardless of the reasons why it'll be a problem.
There are issues like this with software, it would be amazingly simple for every software manufactuer to setup a internet verification of itself. Adobe does this with Mac products, they keep a running list of illegal serials and at install the Adobe installer checks. This is not on the PC versions. So why isn't it? Because of the turmoil it would create in larger community. If they are checking this, what else are they checking, what information are the taking in? Even the software packages that do this, Nero comes to mind, it just gives a warning, even though it could gather enough information to go after an individual but it brings a host of legal problems, invasion of privacy, entraptment, etc...
Personally I think thats a pretty out there theory but it can be a valid concern for some and something that Voom needs to consider. Most of us bought Voom because of what we read on sites like this, not because of the commercials or for sure not because of Sears. We are seeing more and more often that consumer feelings on boards like this drive consumer direction more so than all the advertising in the world.
Go back to the consumer base for Voom, I bet a large percentage of it is based around sites like this, no one at work I've talked to had heard of Voom, I've gotten 5 people to sign up in 2 weeks....based on my opinion...and they would not have signed up....based on my opinion....
If information flows from sites like this and we all get a bad taste in our mouths over this, it goes from there, goes back to Voom needs to understand its consumer base and where it grows from.
And now a technical question
I was just installed yesterday and overnight my firmware does not seem to have updated as expected (as time is still an hour off). Would not being able to "phone home" cause this? If so then which of these two problems might cause it - I have it connected to my second phone line (not the phone number listed with Voom) AND since that is my DSL line, there is a DSL filter on the line. So - the question is whether a DSL filter keeps it from phoning home - and whether Voom uses caller ID and won't talk to a receiver calling on the wrong number. Thanks!
I was just installed yesterday and overnight my firmware does not seem to have updated as expected (as time is still an hour off). Would not being able to "phone home" cause this? If so then which of these two problems might cause it - I have it connected to my second phone line (not the phone number listed with Voom) AND since that is my DSL line, there is a DSL filter on the line. So - the question is whether a DSL filter keeps it from phoning home - and whether Voom uses caller ID and won't talk to a receiver calling on the wrong number. Thanks!
Eric_C said:
Dish already requires a phone line if you have more than 5 receivers. No lawsuits yet.
During setup of Windows XP, the serial # is verified, either manually over the phone or automatically on the internet, if you chose. If you did install with an illegal #, Windows Update will not work. You get a message saying that you have an illegal serial #.
Except of course there are tons of legitimate serials floating around on the web that are from OEM or coporate installs. It's not a secure method.
MKM4,
Microsoft's licensing scheme with its activation system has more holes than Swiss Cheese.
A VLK, or Volume License Key, completely voids the entire registration process. It was put in place so that large corporations could deploy software without having to have unique keys.
It took about 2 days for the first VLK to leak out, and that one key is the one that you cannot do Windows Update with, FCKGW it starts with and is the most famous 5 letters in the computer world
Part of the problem with MS's license scheme and the VLK is, in order for Windows XP to verify the VLK, which requires no call, no internet access, no nothing the software for verification must be present within XP.
It didn't take long for someone to write a program reverse engineering the code in XP to generate VLK's all day long.
The only pirating their scheme protects against are people who wouldn't know how to copy the CD in the first place.
Microsoft's licensing scheme with its activation system has more holes than Swiss Cheese.
A VLK, or Volume License Key, completely voids the entire registration process. It was put in place so that large corporations could deploy software without having to have unique keys.
It took about 2 days for the first VLK to leak out, and that one key is the one that you cannot do Windows Update with, FCKGW it starts with and is the most famous 5 letters in the computer world
Part of the problem with MS's license scheme and the VLK is, in order for Windows XP to verify the VLK, which requires no call, no internet access, no nothing the software for verification must be present within XP.
It didn't take long for someone to write a program reverse engineering the code in XP to generate VLK's all day long.
The only pirating their scheme protects against are people who wouldn't know how to copy the CD in the first place.
Look the fact is....
Everything is hackable by someone. If you are hacking the system then you are not going to have a phone line but a way to change the card to allow you access to the system. Someone somewhere will develop a way to do this. It has happened to Cable Companies and Dish. If you are going to be illegal and steal the signal they (Voom) would not know because it is not connected to the Phone Line. Now Voom comes along in a couple of weeks or whatever and tries too many times to connect and kills the signal... only problem is #1 If the card is disabled from recieving programming then one again you can go back and reprogram it. #2 Since it is not a true subscriber it may not disable just due to no phoneline.
Its not 100% to be hacked or anything but more likely than not someone will hack it. You will not need the phoneline and you will still get the service without paying for it.
Voom is just limiting the subscribers who wish to be legal but do not have a phone line.
Voom is not really solving anything with this phone line thing, they are just loosing some potential customers.
Someone up here said that people with HD, Voom Etc are people ahead of the curve in technology and I think that is right on. Potential VOOM customers are people like me with this good equipment but no phone.
Yes they will get some customers.. probably many... but they will loose some as well and dropped calls etc is not as big of a problem today as it was in the past. Free longdistance included with say a $30/month phone that you keep with you draws people.
I had a phone line... well forever really... but disconnected it about 2 months ago after I got cable internet service and did away with the DSL.
Everything is hackable by someone. If you are hacking the system then you are not going to have a phone line but a way to change the card to allow you access to the system. Someone somewhere will develop a way to do this. It has happened to Cable Companies and Dish. If you are going to be illegal and steal the signal they (Voom) would not know because it is not connected to the Phone Line. Now Voom comes along in a couple of weeks or whatever and tries too many times to connect and kills the signal... only problem is #1 If the card is disabled from recieving programming then one again you can go back and reprogram it. #2 Since it is not a true subscriber it may not disable just due to no phoneline.
Its not 100% to be hacked or anything but more likely than not someone will hack it. You will not need the phoneline and you will still get the service without paying for it.
Voom is just limiting the subscribers who wish to be legal but do not have a phone line.
Voom is not really solving anything with this phone line thing, they are just loosing some potential customers.
Someone up here said that people with HD, Voom Etc are people ahead of the curve in technology and I think that is right on. Potential VOOM customers are people like me with this good equipment but no phone.
Yes they will get some customers.. probably many... but they will loose some as well and dropped calls etc is not as big of a problem today as it was in the past. Free longdistance included with say a $30/month phone that you keep with you draws people.
I had a phone line... well forever really... but disconnected it about 2 months ago after I got cable internet service and did away with the DSL.
As for keeping a landline because of DSL. I used to have DSL. I decided to lose the landline because I NEVER used it. I called our local phone provider (Qwest) and asked if I could still get DSL without the voice. They said no, not possible. I cancelled. Now 7 months later, they are getting ready to allow customers to get DSL without requiring a voice line. Somehow I find it hard to believe they did this just because one or two customers did what I did.
I'm not sure if the research that was done on this takes into acount the fact that not all citys as as cell freindly as others. I am a tax preparer in South Florida with about 650 clients. I update phone info every year for every client and this year had close to 50 folks tell me they dropped thier land line. Thats alot more than .5%, closer to 7.5% actually. The pattern seems to be that young people in apts. are going cell only, at least in this area. And as was stated, that number will go up quicker than you think in areas that don't have the dropout problems that more remote areas have.
more people than you think have no land line
I too would like to order voom but have no land line. We ported our home phone to cell as soon as the FCC made it legal. Of everyone I know the only people that still have a land line are my parents.
High earners under 30 years old have HD tv's and are mostly cell phone only. These are the people VOOM needs to sign up to be successful but they choose not to. Hopefully there will be some kind of internet hookup for anti piracy. This phone line requirement is a joke. On my cell I can call Europe for 1cent a min as most other tech savvy people. Why would I ever hook up to a land line to get ass raped for calls across a county line? Only dinosaurs have them now.
I too would like to order voom but have no land line. We ported our home phone to cell as soon as the FCC made it legal. Of everyone I know the only people that still have a land line are my parents.
High earners under 30 years old have HD tv's and are mostly cell phone only. These are the people VOOM needs to sign up to be successful but they choose not to. Hopefully there will be some kind of internet hookup for anti piracy. This phone line requirement is a joke. On my cell I can call Europe for 1cent a min as most other tech savvy people. Why would I ever hook up to a land line to get ass raped for calls across a county line? Only dinosaurs have them now.
20%? where do you get that percentage from? can you reference your data source and post a link?Eric_C said:
so 7.5% of people that use tax preparers in your area have cells (if your situation is typical, another assumption). ANd another flawed assumption to try and apply that to all homeowners.ravensong said:
