What does 'lifetime' really mean? (TIVO dropping series 1 support) (1 Viewer)

jayn_j

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TIVO announced that they are ending support for their series 1 boxes, as the ROVI guide data format is incompatible
https://www.engadget.com/2016/08/16/tivo-series1-lifetime-over/
Whenever you buy something with a promise of "Lifetime" service, the question is exactly how long that will last. For owners of the very first TiVoDVRs who shelled out for promised Lifetime service, the answer is about 17 years. Dave Zatz let us know the company is notifying owners that after September 29th, their boxes will no longer be able to create recordings or pull down guide data. The Series1 boxes won't be able to handle guide data provided by TiVo's new owner Rovi, which is why it's ending service.

Makes one wonder what lifetime means for later boxes.
 

harshness

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Makes one wonder what lifetime means for later boxes.
Much like it is with DBS receivers, that will come down to the ability to handle the volume of guide data and that mostly comes down to RAM with a smattering of CPU horsepower.

17 years is more than double the life expectancy of a consumer electronics piece.
 

jayn_j

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Not the point as I see it. Once TIVO/ROVI allowed that to happen, I see shorter and shorter "lifetimes" for the newer boxes. I wouldn't be surprised to see S3 boxes dropped next year, and premieres the year after that.

The guide data is just an excuse. Lifetime subscriptions are likely viewed as non-performing liabilities once the money is collected.
 
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harshness

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Not the point as I see it.
It would be nice if things always came out in the consumer's favor, but with modern electronics having such a short longevity due to feature creep (especially looking down the barrel of a transition to compression >AVCHD), lifetimes will get shorter. Then there's the downside of large scale integration (LSI) where the manufacturer has substantial control over how long repair parts are available.
 

jayn_j

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It would be nice if things always came out in the consumer's favor, but with modern electronics having such a short longevity due to feature creep (especially looking down the barrel of a transition to compression >AVCHD), lifetimes will get shorter. Then there's the downside of large scale integration (LSI) where the manufacturer has substantial control over how long repair parts are available.
Understand that, having worked in the industry for 40 years now. My company just got burned on a lifetime buy of what turned out to be counterfeit microprocessors. Now scrambling to deal with a fast redesign because we can't build the old box.

But this isn't that situation. This is going to a different source for guide data and not honoring the lifetime commitment they gave the original users. I fully agree that the hardware is likely unsupportable, and that there likely aren't a lot of series1 users left. Still, TIVO should have offered some sort of upgrade concession to these folks. The original lifetime contract said forever.
From the TIVO site:
All-In Plan
The All-In Plan ($599.99 one-time fee, plus any applicable taxes) replaces Product Lifetime Service (PLS). The All-In Plan provides service for the life of the TiVo device for which it is purchased, and remains with the device in the event of an ownership transfer. The All-In Plan is available for TiVo BOLT Series Unified Entertainment Systems and Roamio Pro DVRs. Devices that already have PLS will continue to receive service for the life of the device.
 

osu1991

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Understand that, having worked in the industry for 40 years now. My company just got burned on a lifetime buy of what turned out to be counterfeit microprocessors. Now scrambling to deal with a fast redesign because we can't build the old box.

But this isn't that situation. This is going to a different source for guide data and not honoring the lifetime commitment they gave the original users. I fully agree that the hardware is likely unsupportable, and that there likely aren't a lot of series1 users left. Still, TIVO should have offered some sort of upgrade concession to these folks. The original lifetime contract said forever.
From the TIVO site:


Tivo stated they only had a few thousand series 1 boxes still connecting for data and they did offer an upgrade rebate to series 1 owners, if their boxes had called in recently. It's in one of the threads on TCF, I think the one where Ira Bahr answered some questions a few weeks ago.
 

jayn_j

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Tivo stated they only had a few thousand series 1 boxes still connecting for data and they did offer an upgrade rebate to series 1 owners, if their boxes had called in recently. It's in one of the threads on TCF, I think the one where Ira Bahr answered some questions a few weeks ago.

Thanks. I hadn't seen that, and kudos to TIVO.
 

harshness

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This is going to a different source for guide data and not honoring the lifetime commitment they gave the original users.
It is no different than changing RF modulation technology, video format or some other critical input data format. This goes back to the buggy whip argument where at a point, there where no horses pulling carriages anymore and hence nothing left to whip with your buggy whip.

If TiVo owners chose to ignore the part about the lifetime only applying to the life of the serial numbered device, that's their bad.
 

mike123abc

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With TiVo I balance "lifetime" with 4-5 years of service. Essentially what you pay for lifetime is recouped and every extra year is a bonus. Not having a monthly bill for years is worth it to me. A consumer electronics device that lasts over 10 years is very well built...

But, as a public relations gesture perhaps they could have offered a discount on new box lifetime to existing series 1 users...
 

osu1991

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Lifetime may not be too much longer for me if TiVo doesn't get their heads out of their derrières and fix the guide data fiasco. I have 4 lifetime roamios I bought last year. The new TiVo guide data from Rovi/TiVo is fubarred. Mine all made the switch last week and still no info for H&I. Cox Oklahoma channel is mapped to the wrong channel and showing info for Cox Kansas and now today many channels have "to be announced" in the guide and it skipped recording a new episode. :(
 

primestar31

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I'm in mid-Michigan, and all of a sudden, my Roamio thinks I only have channels for Wisconsin AND Ohio! No way is the antenna picking those up, but they were added to my channel list for some reason. All my recordings were re-mapped and didn't record for a week...

I had to re-run Guided Setup again to fix it.
 

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