What would you want Dish to do?

What would you prefer Dish do?

  • Full-Time RSNs on CONUS... (See Below)

    Votes: 47 41.6%
  • Put full time RSNs on Spotbeam... (See Below)

    Votes: 66 58.4%

  • Total voters
    113
Check the channel maps again. 61.5 has all of TP30 and they were using TP20 which now has had MAV and FTV added to it. 129 has all of TP25, TP27 has Cinemax, Bravo, Logo, Disney XD added. They were using TP8 on 129 for a while, but that TP frequency appears to have been assigned into spotbeams now.

Alright, I'll eat crow there.

Yes, and on the Eastern Arc in particular they could gain more spectrum if they replaced the dinged up sats that aren't able to power all of their licensed TPs. EA should be brimming with capacity as an all MPEG4 feed of content on 2 of the 3 sats (61.5 still has some MPEG2 content)

EA space does not help. They need space on BOTH arcs to add national HD.

Which is great for the 95% who were going to remain subscribers no matter what. For the other 5%, I'm pretty sure that it won't take long for them to take their base subscription and over-the-top sports package dollars to another provider like D*. Killing national HD RSNs will absolutely have that effect.

So you lose the 5%. Big whoop. And why are the other 95% subs "no matter what"? We can vote with our wallets just as easily. You'll lose more than the 5% if they don't keep up with national channels.

Ask yourself this: Which would Dish rather have, 5 $60/month subs, or 1 $300/month sub? The former, of course. Why? It's of course better to have more subs. One leaves, you're not out a ton of revenue.

And sports pack COST over the top money to buy, but that is not evidence they are huge moneymakers for providers. Again, if Dish made so much money with EI, why drop it?
 
EA space does not help. They need space on BOTH arcs to add national HD.
There's nothing to stop Dish from taking the Eastern Arc and loading it up with CONUS RSNs -- well, nothing except Dish internal policy. There could still be some value in being able to compete with D* on HD RSN coverage for half the country.

So you lose the 5%. Big whoop. And why are the other 95% subs "no matter what"? We can vote with our wallets just as easily. You'll lose more than the 5% if they don't keep up with national channels.
The folks who were going to leave over HD probably left a couple years ago when D* was dominating in channel delivery and Dish was still lacking popular channels like SciFi and USA. It's to the point now where all 1st, 2nd, and most of the 3rd tier HD is available on Dish -- the only things to be added are 3rd / 4th tier networks that are still emerging with HD content. Dish has more national HD than D*, and I believe is currently only second to Verizon FiOS who obviously has a much smaller service footprint.

At least 60-75% of Dish's customer base is still SD-only, so we're already talking about a minority group of subscribers either way. Not that it's an excuse to ignore innovation, we don't need more General Motors type failures.

Ask yourself this: Which would Dish rather have, 5 $60/month subs, or 1 $300/month sub? The former, of course. Why? It's of course better to have more subs. One leaves, you're not out a ton of revenue.
Conversely, for every $300/mo sub that leaves you need to gain five $60/mo subscribers to maintain the same revenue. Operational costs are somewhat constant regardless of the number of subs; it costs the same amount of money to keep a satellite in place with content uplinked whether there are 1 or 1,000,000 subscribers pointed at it. Your programming, support, and end-user equipment fees are the variables that change with subscriber count.

Revenue generation absolutely factors into how frequency space is used -- if it didn't they would cut back from 15 HD PPV channels and use some of that capacity for more national HD channels.

And sports pack COST over the top money to buy, but that is not evidence they are huge moneymakers for providers. Again, if Dish made so much money with EI, why drop it?
Retailers like Best Buy need to purchase millions of dollars worth of TVs to sell them in their stores, the key is to make money on the transaction. As with most things in business, you need to spend money to make money.

As has been discussed numerous times, the cost of MLB:EI went up more than 300% in 2007 as a result of D*'s bid to get the package as an exclusive. InDemand was able to raise the funds because they negotiate on behalf of cable companies with 40 million combined subscribers, so they have the numbers to still be profitable with the package. Dish with 14 million subs and declining wasn't in the same position to make the same deal, especially when they were already struggling to get MLB:EI subscribers due to a lack of agreement with popular channels for that package like YES.

The qualifying requirements for locking up NHL Center Ice, for instance, are pretty minimal because the league struggles for ratings in the southern 2/3rds of the US. The payback on Center Ice is pretty big though; every CI sub is likely to be a GoldHD sub because of the agreement the NHL has with Versus, and they are kicking in $159/season on top of their base package. I bet it takes a few Bronze & Silver subs to make up for the lost margins when a single CI subscriber leaves.
 
There's nothing to stop Dish from taking the Eastern Arc and loading it up with CONUS RSNs -- well, nothing except Dish internal policy. There could still be some value in being able to compete with D* on HD RSN coverage for half the country.

There are the several thousand (or tens of thousands of) customers who will demand EA upgrades to get their RSN in full time. Face it. EA and WA have to keep the same service levels, and 61.5 and 129 need to mirror HD content, or else Dish will have a lot of dish upgrades to do.

The folks who were going to leave over HD probably left a couple years ago when D* was dominating in channel delivery and Dish was still lacking popular channels like SciFi and USA. It's to the point now where all 1st, 2nd, and most of the 3rd tier HD is available on Dish -- the only things to be added are 3rd / 4th tier networks that are still emerging with HD content. Dish has more national HD than D*, and I believe is currently only second to Verizon FiOS who obviously has a much smaller service footprint.

There are lots of Dish subs, like me, that signed up in 2006 and early 2007 when Dish had a big lead. We were under contract in late 2007 and 2008 when DirecTV made it's moves. Then, before our contracts were up, Dish started to catch up. Now, DirecTV is launching a new sat that should make them comfortable enough to use the bandwidth they have been sitting on. This time, we won't be under contract.

At least 60-75% of Dish's customer base is still SD-only, so we're already talking about a minority group of subscribers either way. Not that it's an excuse to ignore innovation, we don't need more General Motors type failures.

No argument. But I think RSNs on spot would be innovative.

Conversely, for every $300/mo sub that leaves you need to gain five $60/mo subscribers to maintain the same revenue. Operational costs are somewhat constant regardless of the number of subs; it costs the same amount of money to keep a satellite in place with content uplinked whether there are 1 or 1,000,000 subscribers pointed at it. Your programming, support, and end-user equipment fees are the variables that change with subscriber count.

You miss the point. If the cost is per sub, Dish could guarantee a profit. They pay the NBA, say $150 per sub,. but charge $200 to each sub, bam, $50 profit for every sub. The NBA instead demands $50M a season, Dish has to find 250k subs before it makes a profit.

Revenue generation absolutely factors into how frequency space is used -- if it didn't they would cut back from 15 HD PPV channels and use some of that capacity for more national HD channels.

Wait until you see the channel moves coming starting today. Right now there are 5 PPV channels on 110. There is also an empty TP (8 channels). 14 are supposed to go to 110. I'm betting those PPV channels on 110 will be gone.

Retailers like Best Buy need to purchase millions of dollars worth of TVs to sell them in their stores, the key is to make money on the transaction. As with most things in business, you need to spend money to make money.

No doubt. But the sports packs being bid bucks make it much harder to make money on the transaction.

As has been discussed numerous times, the cost of MLB:EI went up more than 300% in 2007 as a result of D*'s bid to get the package as an exclusive. InDemand was able to raise the funds because they negotiate on behalf of cable companies with 40 million combined subscribers, so they have the numbers to still be profitable with the package. Dish with 14 million subs and declining wasn't in the same position to make the same deal, especially when they were already struggling to get MLB:EI subscribers due to a lack of agreement with popular channels for that package like YES.

Yet DirecTV continues to offer CI even though they offer some exclusive channels. Hmmm.

The qualifying requirements for locking up NHL Center Ice, for instance, are pretty minimal because the league struggles for ratings in the southern 2/3rds of the US. The payback on Center Ice is pretty big though; every CI sub is likely to be a GoldHD sub because of the agreement the NHL has with Versus, and they are kicking in $159/season on top of their base package. I bet it takes a few Bronze & Silver subs to make up for the lost margins when a single CI subscriber leaves.

Again, can someone tell me how many HD Center Ice subs there are so we can honestly see how big a deal this is? I don't think we will find there are that many that would need replaced.
 
Well I know if they got rid of Center Ice, I would be gone. I don't really care about any other sports package but I do like my hockey. Just because you don't like sports packages and want your certain national hd channels added is your opinion, you don't speak for everyone. :rolleyes:
 
Well I know if they got rid of Center Ice, I would be gone. I don't really care about any other sports package but I do like my hockey. Just because you don't like sports packages and want your certain national hd channels added is your opinion, you don't speak for everyone. :rolleyes:

Why I started a poll. Seems a majority agree with me.

As Spock would say, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
 
My thoughts are that eventually they are going to have full-time HD RSN's as that's the way these channels are going. I believe by next year all FSN's will broadcast in HD and probably the same for the others. They have to be ready by then so yes, I think there's a real need for 24/7 RSN's.

On the other hand, they have to explore additional national HD channels. I think when you see the mpeg4 conversion of the HD channels on the western arc completed, we'll see more of both added. I actually feel for now they have a pretty strong HD lineup. The only channels that have HD equivalents i'm looking forward to are E! and MoreMax, until channels like HLN go HD.
 
My thoughts are that eventually they are going to have full-time HD RSN's as that's the way these channels are going. I believe by next year all FSN's will broadcast in HD and probably the same for the others. They have to be ready by then so yes, I think there's a real need for 24/7 RSN's.

On the other hand, they have to explore additional national HD channels. I think when you see the mpeg4 conversion of the HD channels on the western arc completed, we'll see more of both added. I actually feel for now they have a pretty strong HD lineup. The only channels that have HD equivalents i'm looking forward to are E! and MoreMax, until channels like HLN go HD.

HLN did just recently launch in HD, along with TruTV and, more importantly, TCM, all from Turner.

I don't disagree that HD RSNs should be available full time. I just think they should bring them to the regions they cover, not use CONUS bandwidth.

With MPEG4 on the Western Arc, and Reverse DBS spectrum use, maybe Dish can eventually have both. But that in many hears away.
 
People need to know that RSN hd have been fulltime for sometime now. They have just not been made available on Dish.
 
Why I started a poll. Seems a majority agree with me.

As Spock would say, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

First off, this message board doesn't count for all of Dish subscribers. So not everybody has offically "voted". 2nd, the vote is less then 20 apart which technically not a far enough majority. Plus most of the people on here probably still don't know what CONUS & Spotbeams are after you already explained it.

I'm sure there is a lot of people just satisfied with their full time RSN or don't want to shell out the money to buy a sports pack. But really I don't care too much for the channels (maybe IFC) that you want added in HD. So it comes down to what you like. I like my Center Ice package, so why would you want to take something away from a customer that is already there? It's basically like channel yanking like Voom, etc..

I don't want to sound like an ass about the whole thing and hope you get your channels in HD, but I just don't think it's fair to be taking stuff away to get them..
 
There are the several thousand (or tens of thousands of) customers who will demand EA upgrades to get their RSN in full time. Face it. EA and WA have to keep the same service levels, and 61.5 and 129 need to mirror HD content, or else Dish will have a lot of dish upgrades to do.
There are thousands (or tens of thousands) that are putting in for dish upgrades right now as Dish is expanding HD locals, or if people sign up for internationals, or people upgrading to HD.

The reason I say you could split the arcs is that RSN density is far heavier in the East:

Code:
Regional
Sports Network 			Channel #
CSN West 			409 HD  *West
Altitude 			410 HD  *West
FSN Prime Ticket 		411 HD  *West
FSN Rocky Mountain 		414 HD  *West
FSN Arizona 			415 HD  *West
FSN Southwest 			416 HD  *West
FSN West 			417 HD  *West
FSN Midwest 			418 HD  *East
CSN Bay Area 			419 HD  *West
FSN South 			420 HD  *East
Sun Sports 			422 HD  *East
FSN Florida 			423 HD  *East
CSN Mid-Atlantic 		424 HD  *East
FSN Ohio 			425 HD  *East
FSN Northwest 			426 HD  *West
FSN Cincinnati 			427 HD  *East
FSN Pittsburgh 			428 HD  *East
CSN Chicago 			429 HD  *East
FSN Detroit 			430 HD  *East
Sports Time Ohio 		431 HD  *East
New England Sports Network 	434 HD  *East
CSN New England 		435 HD  *East
FSN North 			436 HD  *East
Sport South 			437 HD  *East
Sports Net New York 		438 HD  *East

You could go full time HD within the slot capacity available on western arc today for the RSNs that cover states that are primarily western arc -- there's only 9 RSNs there compared to 16 East. Or worst case, continue to do the per-game assignments to the channels on WA but give priority to the western feeds.

On eastern arc, use the capacity on 72.7 & 77 to run all HD RSNs full-time.

The obvious benefits to an approach like this are:
  • Everybody gets their local RSN in HD as long as they have a dish in the right arc
  • The sports packages are only somewhat broken in the west -- you'd still see games of division rival teams, but western arc would get fewer eastern RSN games in HD. Some of those customers would be lost to D*
  • Everybody in Eastern Arc not only gets their local RSN in full-time HD, they get all RSNs in their respective sports package in HD. Big win for those east of the Mississippi.

Why I started a poll. Seems a majority agree with me.
This isn't a presidential election where the slight minority just has to go along with things. If your poll represents people who will leave Dish if they can't get CONUS full-time RSNs, then 40% is a pretty decent chunk of HD customers for Dish to lose.

If they do what you propose and kill CONUS HD RSNs I'll cancel to go to D* -- I'm pretty sure the guy with username NoCenterIceNoDishNetwork will too.
 
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There are people who watch nothing but sports and there are those who watch nothing but locals. It doesn't matter what DISH does, it will not make EVERYBODY happy. They have try to hit the middle of the road with both.
 
I would expect them to move 7 or 14 (1 or 2 TPs) to full time RSN. I was expecting them to do it when they did the All American Direct HD move instead. If they start converting packages to 8PSK only in 2010 then they will free up more space on 110/119 for more HD.
 

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