Curious, I am going to be buying a wide screen soon and wanted to know if I should buy one with the HDTV tuner built in or just get a HDTV ready monitor? I assume I will need to get a HDTV reciever and thought it would be a waste of money to invest in one that has a tuner built in and go with the HDTV ready monitor. I live in a rural area so cable is out and sat is my only option and plan to live in this area for many years to come. Thanks
Which one, HDTV Ready or HDTV Builtin?
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depends on your OTA ava now and for the foreseeable future... if none then it would be a waste of tuner...
Thanks for the reply, but what is "ava"? I know what is OTA and I get crystal clear reception with my antenae from about 40 miles. I live in the sacramento DMA but up in the mtns. I want to buy the TV soon and probably buy the reciever in the fall of next year. I am a patient person and have been reading about the mpeg4 upgrades coming and would rather wait for it to be available. I would assume I would have to buy a new reciever to get the HD programming from Dish and so wouldn't need the built in feature of some of the TVs, thus saving myself a few bucks.dfergie said:
available... 
and yes any Hd sat receiver should have Ota capabilitys... and while you are waiting on Hd... dvds will look a lot better on an Hd set...
and yes any Hd sat receiver should have Ota capabilitys... and while you are waiting on Hd... dvds will look a lot better on an Hd set...
shodobe, there is definitely a legitimate argument for saving a few bucks and bypassing an integrated ATSC tuner. But, having had experience with an HD-ready TV myself, if given a choice, I would definitely buy an actual HDTV today (as I did with my Toshiba DLP). For starters, prices have come way down in recent months for integrateds and, depending on the manufacturer/model, the savings these days is somewhat negligible. Furthermore, the quality of the ATSC tuners in many TVs often surpass those built in to DBS or cable set-top boxes. Case in point: My Dish 811 receiver...Even when using a Monster M-Series DVI-to-HDMI cable to view locals, my Toshiba's tuner is noticeably cleaner than that built into the 811. And lastly, if for no other reason, it's prudent to have a good backup. Having an integrated tuner insures non-interruption of broadcast HD should your set-top box fail or is otherwise out of commission. If anything, having an actual HDTV gives you added flexibility.shodobe said:
Not much money to save on the non-tuner models, unless you get a good deal on a closeout that doesn't have one. Most HDTV manufacturers have dropped the price of this year's sets with tuners to below last year's models without tuners. This is true for a number of sets from Sony, Panasonic, Samsung, and others.
The cost of including the tuner is only a few bucks, maybe $20-$25. A built-in tuner can use the existing TV power supply & cabinet and has no need for output connectors. So it's just a simple circuit to include.
The cost of including the tuner is only a few bucks, maybe $20-$25. A built-in tuner can use the existing TV power supply & cabinet and has no need for output connectors. So it's just a simple circuit to include.
Basicblak, makes sense. I have been watching the price drop on most plasma and LCD tvs over the past year. There really isn't much difference in price between with or without. I have basically decided it will be an LCD because I think the colors and clarity is much better than the plasmas. Now this is only from my observations at CC or Costco and seem to always zero in on the LCD DLP models. I don't know, they seem to be much better. I know beauty is only in the eyes of the beholder and I know there are some who will spout off all the advantages of Plasma vs LCD but my eyes, as bad as they are, always gravitate to the LCDs. Thanks, Mike
Get the HDTV Built-in. Dish HD-DVRs only come w/ one OTA tuner and almost all DVDRs only come w/ NTSC tuners. If your family is like my family, TV program watching conflicts almost always involve the major networks (the counter-programing strategy), not the miscellany of non-descript channels on cable/DBS. So to be able to watch one major network HD broadcast while recording another in HD or high quality SD, you need a second OTA digital tuner. I ended up buying an LG STB in addition to my Dish 811 for my 2-year old Sammy DLP monitor.
No no, not quite that low! More like $250-$500 for new/current year models at retail, actually. BUT, in the scheme of things, a few hundred bucks differential between built-ins and non-built-ins is an incredible bargain considering that the price differential was once in the thousands.Tom Bombadil said:
The 100% requirement for tvs over 35 inches has kicked in so it will probably be a moot point soon
it already is and like stated above unless you find last years model all new hdtvs have a built in tuner which can be a good thing because you will have local acces in the event of rain fade with satellitekb7oeb said:
BasicBlak said:
Nope, it really does cost only around $25, maybe $35, to include the HDTV Tuner. In 2004 there were standalone HDTV tuners being sold at $149, with a list of $199. And this price had to include a cabinet, separate power supply, all of the output connectors, the box, the extra manufacturing cost, and all of the cost of inventorying, shipping, and marketing the box.
There is a HDTV tuner card for PCs that you can buy for around $80. And that still carries the extra cost of having to have additional circuitry to interface to a PC through a PCI bus, and all of the marketing cost and overhead of a standalone product. I suspect the HDTV tuner chip on that card cost about $10.
The HDTV circuitry is quite commonplace now. And very cheap for Asian companies to manufacturer. No R&D to speak of to recover. No way it costs anywhere near $250-$500 to include.
Witness that Panasonic took their 43" LCD RP TV, added other functionality to it, improved it, increased the size to 44", threw in the HDTV tuner, and cut the list price by $500. If the HDTV circuit cost them $250-$500, there is no way they could have enacted a price decrease of that magnitude.
All new tv's that size must have a digital tuner, but you don't have to use it. Make sure that there is DVI or newer input, probably several. The dish receiver, the dvd, the pc for watching whatever sport streams over the internet (HOCKEY!)
Tom, with all due respect, I wasn't talking about manufacturing costs. I was referring to the cost at retail based on when I made my own purchase a few months ago. Certainly things cost a pittance in manufacturing compared to what the consumer actually ends up paying--that's with nearly all goods sold today. But I never said the circuitry itself costs $250-$500.Tom Bombadil said:
Granted, the prices for sets with HD tuners built-in have come down dramatically, thankfully. And soon every TV sold in the U.S. will be mandated to have the tuner built-in to all sets larger than 19". It's a fantastic development. Prices have narrowed between the two, for sure, if not reversed (e.g., individual manufacturer's comparable HDTVs actually costing a little less than their counterparts [Panasonic, for instance]). I was merely making the point that, considering how, as recently as last year, the price differential between HDTVs and HD-readys was in the thousands of dollars, a $250 price differential today is indeed truly a pittance. Either way, my suggestion still stands in that, given a choice, I'd buy a set with an HD tuner built-in for the reasons I indicated in my prior post.
I have both the Dish 6000 and 811 - neither OTA HD tuners are anything to crow about (although 811's other problems may just interfere with giving it a fair trial). Purchased a new Mits with built in tuner (paid only $200 over the same model without HD tuner) - much better local HD reception (811 satellite HD reception is very good). A few posts have said the 942's OTA HD tuner is much improved, but a lot of money if it has to be replaced for MPEG4.
For all intents and purposes the cost of a built-in HDTV tuner at retail is $0. Two manufacturers had their 2004 CRT RP sets marked up about $400 for the ones with the built-in tuners. In mid-2005 they had to discontinue the non-tuner sets, because they violated the new guidelines of being over 36" without a tuner. So as soon as they cleared those old sets out of inventory, they changed the prices on the sets with tuners to exactly the same list as the old tuner-less models. Therefore, the retail cost is $0.
If you take a look at Circuit City's current pricing, you'll see that they have a Sony 57" CRT RP for $1899. That is last year's model rebadged as this year's. It does not have a tuner, Sony has not yet adjusted prices. However you can buy a new 2006 Hitachi CRT RP for $1805 and it has the built-in tuner. Last year Hitachi's and Sony's prices were the same. Both are equivalent sets, although I like the Hitachi a bit better. Obviously Hitachi is charging nothing for the tuner.
Likewise for DLP and LCD RP setsw/tuners from Sony, Samsung, and Panasonic which all now sell for less than last year's tunerless models.
So from my vantage point, the manufacturing costs are very low, and the retail costs are zero. That feature has simply been absorbed into the base price of new HDTVs.
What was happening in 2004 was that manufacturers were gouging customers buying sets w/tuners, charging them way more than what it cost to include the feature. Now that it is a standard feature, the extra charge has been eliminated.
If you take a look at Circuit City's current pricing, you'll see that they have a Sony 57" CRT RP for $1899. That is last year's model rebadged as this year's. It does not have a tuner, Sony has not yet adjusted prices. However you can buy a new 2006 Hitachi CRT RP for $1805 and it has the built-in tuner. Last year Hitachi's and Sony's prices were the same. Both are equivalent sets, although I like the Hitachi a bit better. Obviously Hitachi is charging nothing for the tuner.
Likewise for DLP and LCD RP setsw/tuners from Sony, Samsung, and Panasonic which all now sell for less than last year's tunerless models.
So from my vantage point, the manufacturing costs are very low, and the retail costs are zero. That feature has simply been absorbed into the base price of new HDTVs.
What was happening in 2004 was that manufacturers were gouging customers buying sets w/tuners, charging them way more than what it cost to include the feature. Now that it is a standard feature, the extra charge has been eliminated.
Jynx, you totally made my point regarding the Mits HD you purchased...thank you! And I also agree with your assessment of the 811's tuner capability. I've seen the 942 up close and personal, and its OTA tuner surpasses the 811 by leaps and bounds. Based on my observations, I'd say it was comparable to those built in to the Mits & Toshibas, two brands that I've had extensive experience with. As for the price you paid for it, again--simply stated and without all the minutae from Mr Bombadil (said with respect, of course)--regardless of all the behind-the-scenes pricing/manufacturing politics going on, there are still plenty of HD and HD-capable sets presently on retailer's showroom floors (regardless of whether they are from 2004 or 2005 inventory, or bought at CC or BB or Walmart or online) that are priced at least a couple hundred dollars apart, some as much as $500. I was in Circuit City and Best Buy last week doing some unrelated shopping, and I saw this for myself with several brands. And that is a fact. My purpose--as was many others here, I'm sure--was simply to advise shobode to disregard said price differential (considering how the price gap has narrowed today) should he encounter one (and he most certainly will encounter them) and to do what you, me, and others have done: to go for the HD tuner built-in, partly due to the great prices, but mainly because many outboard tuners positively suck in comparison.jynx said:
I have no doubts about Mr Bombadil's facts and stats, but they are beside the point. You paid $200 more than the comparable Mits HD-ready; I paid $275 more for mine, and I just wanted shodobe to understand that should he do the same, he'd still be getting a helluva bargain compared to the way sets were priced just a year or two ago. Now, of course, if he or anyone else can get their hands on an HD set that's priced the same or even less than a brand's comparable non-HD model, then all the better. That's reason to be stoked!
jynx said:
I feel for all of the people who paid $300-$500 more for sets w/tuners in 2004 and early 2005. Almost every company marked those models up to take advantage of offering that feature (i.e. they were ripping everyone off). But when then government mandated tuners on the larger sets and everyone had to include one in their basic sets, beginning in July of this year, the price for the tuner went to 0. This is exactly what government analysts predicted when companies loudly complained a couple of years ago when the tuner mandate was issued.
The only way that a tunerless model should be lower in price is if they are closing out the last 2005 models and are clearance pricing those. This is true for Mitsubishi too. Their new 2006 52" DLP sets with tuners are lower priced than their 2005 models were this spring without tuners. This is true across the industry.
I recently picked up my HDTV w/o tuner for a great price as CC had them on clearance. They dropped the price $400 less than what they had been selling it for in order to clear them out of their warehouse. Good deal for me! I'm using an 811 as my tuner and it pulls in all of my local digital channels. Hopefully next year Dish will release a new DVR w/mpeg4 and I'll go to that.
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