Why is Dish shutting down the 721?

Derwin0

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Aug 16, 2004
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can it be activated and then when you get the new receiver deactivate it?
Not if the replacement is considered a lease. Leased receivers cannot be deactivated without being returned.
That's why I want to know if the replacement is owned or leased before I do a swap.
 

navychop

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FOR THOSE WHO HAVE REC'D THE LETTER OR TALKED WITH DISH:

.
.
Did they offer you the deal, or did they just tell you they were shipping out the 522?

Did they mention any sort of deadline?

Did they say what would happen if you did nothing? (721 stop working, etc)

.
.
 

tansu

Well-Known SatelliteGuys Member
Jan 30, 2006
28
0
721 compensation

I will not take a leased "anything"!
I would take a $200 credit to my monthly bill.
I will wait to see what happens before leaving dish.
 

navychop

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Bye! :wave

They don't actually owe us anything, legally. All devices have a reasonable lifetime, and electronics is a technology that is known to change rapidly.
 

makman

SatelliteGuys Pro
Bye! :wave

They don't actually owe us anything, legally. All devices have a reasonable lifetime, and electronics is a technology that is known to change rapidly.

Actually the argument can be made that they do. Since we purchased these devices from DISH and not a third-party, there is an implied duty to perform. Nowhere does it say in any of the literature provided with these devices that they would stop functioning after a certain time, excluding mechanical failure. The implied contract is that if we buy this device we will be able to receive dish network as long as we pay our monthly bill and the device is in good working order. In fact, by offering any sort of replacement receiver, they are acknowledging this duty. Otherwise they would simply say that it is up to us to remedy the situation however we see fit.

If you know of any written contract between DISH and subscribers that says otherwise, please let me know.

Mitch
 

mike123abc

Too many cables
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Sep 25, 2003
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Well they will get away with it since:

1. You can still keep your now worthless 721 for whatever you want to do with it

2. They are giving you a free equivalent box on loan. If you cancel service you have to return the box, but you still have your 721 in your posession. If you cancel service your 721 would not have worked anyways.

3. If you tried to sell your 721 they would not have activated it anyways for the buyer.

So, how can you show harm? You still have your box, you are still able to watch/record your Dish service at the same price you have now. It is not going to be anything you will be able to win in court.
 

thiggin2

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Mar 28, 2004
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TampaBay Florida
Just received this in the mail today. I'm guessing this is the letter addressing the 721 replacement?? It doesn't state its for the 721 but I'm sure it is. Can anyone confirm??
 

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navychop

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Yep, I'm with Mike. And nowhere is there any reasonable expectation that any product will last forever, or be supported forever. Especially in the electronics field. How many orphaned products are out there?

It would be difficult, to say the least, to establish that there is any such "implied" contract. Real world experience is to the contrary. But you could make the argument, and try to take it to court. Heck, I know someone who went to court over $7.50 - and won, even though they owed the other party considerably more.

Why do people seem to expect so much more out of satellite service than they do out of other electronic products? It's getting tiring, hearing "Dish had better meet my terms, or I'm leaving." Your interpretation doesn't drive matters. Theirs does- they're the big guys. And they're the ones with the suite of lawyers writing those contracts.


THIG- Thanks for posting that letter. I'm printing it now and will read it over.
 

makman

SatelliteGuys Pro
Well they will get away with it since:

1. You can still keep your now worthless 721 for whatever you want to do with it

2. They are giving you a free equivalent box on loan. If you cancel service you have to return the box, but you still have your 721 in your posession. If you cancel service your 721 would not have worked anyways.

3. If you tried to sell your 721 they would not have activated it anyways for the buyer.

So, how can you show harm? You still have your box, you are still able to watch/record your Dish service at the same price you have now. It is not going to be anything you will be able to win in court.

I am not saying that you could win in court. It probably could be done but it would take a class-action and many years. However they are still willfully making something that I own worthless.

One could say it is not their fault, it is because of the lawsuit. However under the law they were the ones who initiated the events that caused the ultimate consequence of the machine becoming worthless. You say that I can keep my machine and I will have nothing because it is worthless, therefore since my machine is worthless they don't have to do anything at all. However that is circular reasoning. It is their violation of copyright laws that caused this chain of events. If they had not done that, my machine would not be worthless. I am therefore harmed by DISH Network.

They should treat this as they do with the extended guarantee. Even though I talk about "my machine", it has actually been replaced several times by dish under their guarantee. Everyone still understands that it is my property. This is not about a device becoming obsolete. It is about them willfully making it obsolete. Is it not the same as them going to MPEG-4? Why does everybody assume that they have an obligation to give us a new machine under those circumstances?

They need to replace this with a like device that is my property, not theirs, so that I can do with it what I want. If I decide that I want to cancel my service the day after I receive the new machine I can do so and then sell my machine on eBay.
 

makman

SatelliteGuys Pro
Just received this in the mail today. I'm guessing this is the letter addressing the 721 replacement?? It doesn't state its for the 721 but I'm sure it is. Can anyone confirm??

This letter is funny. The other models from that era (501/508, probably others) don't require this upgrade and are not becoming obsolete. Were it not for the lawsuit they would not have to offer this "upgrade". It makes it seem like they are the good guys.
 

navychop

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Well, I note that in the letter they are leaving it open to expand it beyond the 721. No deadline, but a real sense of urgency, and the threat that it will stop working soon. And you gotta call for the program details- nothing in the letter. I wonder if that means different strokes for different folks.

THIG, since you have HD service, please post here if they offer you an upgrade to a ViP DVR, or just the 522. I'll probably upgrade to an HD DVR if I can, rather than just put off the upgrade until a year or so from now, and have to go thru this all over again. Besides, it would be nice if I could carry an external storage unit up to the bedroom to watch stuff recorded in the living room.

I guess I'll wait until I actually get the letter, or finish burning the stuff off the 721.
 

navychop

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I don't think they are obligated to support any product indefinitely, regardless of the underlying causes. Technology marches on.

Think of HD DVD. Willfully dropped. No more s/w, soon no more updates, soon no more online features support. Slow reduction of capabilities. That's life. Youse pays youse money, youse takes youse chances.

MPEG-2 only Tivos are becoming worth less every day, at least the ones for D*. Do you think Tivo is going to hand out new ones in exchange for the old?

As MPEG-4 spreads, lots of old machines will become useless. They aren't making any offers because they have to. They're making them for customer satisfaction, which they hope will translate into customer retention. And yes, they are "willfully" making that change.

Sure, you can keep it as your property, for whatever value you see in it. And you can cancel at any time. You just might need to pay a cancellation fee.

The 5xx series is not long for this world either. Even without MPEG-4 concerns, do they have the memory and processing power to support future encryption methods? For that matter, does anyone know if any 5xx units have rec'd the new purple cards?

Didn't someone once figure there weren't much more than 100,000 721s still active? I suspect Dish was planning to phase them out, just to cut the support costs. Haven't we been hearing hints and rumors on this for the last year or two, at least? All the pre-ViP series receivers are on the chopping block. It's just a matter of when. Anyone think there's much over 5 years to go before MPEG-4 spreads so much as to drive the old receivers out of service?
 

Stargazer

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Well they will get away with it since:

1. You can still keep your now worthless 721 for whatever you want to do with it

2. They are giving you a free equivalent box on loan. If you cancel service you have to return the box, but you still have your 721 in your posession. If you cancel service your 721 would not have worked anyways.

3. If you tried to sell your 721 they would not have activated it anyways for the buyer.

So, how can you show harm? You still have your box, you are still able to watch/record your Dish service at the same price you have now. It is not going to be anything you will be able to win in court.

The thing is, Dish Network is making that 721 useless. It is their fault, as I told them on the phone, due to the Tivo Patent infringement, as to why they are trying to force a leased receiver down my throat in exchange for my owned receiver.
 

STDog

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jun 25, 2007
322
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You 721 is not useless. You can still watch all the recorded programs on it. I guess you could even use the CPU and such with a different OS.

I'd be thankful for the "free" receiver to continue using the service.

I have plenty of electronics that I cannot use anymore.
My Windows 98 system is nearly useless now.Even the updates for the software on it will not work (like Firefox 3, or Photoshop CS). But Microsoft didn't offer me a new OS for free when they decided to call it obsolete, an no longer supply support for it.

Wonder what Dish would say if I wanted to reactivate my 3000?

Now, I'd love for Dish to replace my 501 with a new receiver, and not charge a fee of any sort (since I don't pay any now). But I doubt that'll happen. When they drop MPEG2, I have many receivers that will no longer work. I fully expect to have to buy replacements (or lease them from Dish). They might offer me one reciever, maybe even a xx2 unit to drive 2 TVs, but no way I'll get 4 independent receivers including one DVR.
 

thiggin2

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Mar 28, 2004
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Wonder what Dish would say if I wanted to reactivate my 3000?
They might still activate it because most SD channels are still mpeg2. Also Dish just did a software update for the 3000 back on 10/08/07 :).
The 3000 was my first receiver back in 96. Very slow compaired to the modern ones but I never had any problems with it :).

EDIT: Thought I would add the link :)
Tech : Current Software
 

makman

SatelliteGuys Pro
They might still activate it because most SD channels are still mpeg2. Also Dish just did a software update for the 3000 back on 10/08/07 :).
The 3000 was my first receiver back in 96. Very slow compaired to the modern ones but I never had any problems with it :).

EDIT: Thought I would add the link :)
Tech : Current Software

Just more proof that these receivers are not obsolete (especially the link showing how recent all the software has been updated). As of today, dish has not changed how they are sending the signal and all of these receivers work. They are the ones at fault with this whole issue and should not penalize us.

Mitch
 

thiggin2

Supporting Founder
Supporting Founder
Mar 28, 2004
1,632
5
TampaBay Florida
Just more proof that these receivers are not obsolete (especially the link showing how recent all the software has been updated). As of today, dish has not changed how they are sending the signal and all of these receivers work. They are the ones at fault with this whole issue and should not penalize us.

Mitch
Until they finally turn off ALL mpeg2 channels they will not be obsolete.
 
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