Will Dish Tech Install Second Coax Cable For OTA Antenna?

[charlesrshell]

Attic?..Easy to ground..Just install a grounding block in the attic and run a 10ga gnd wire to the light fixture in the attic...Take the escutcheon off the fixture, see the GND screw..Take a piece of stranded copper wire(10ga again),back the GND screw out and wrap the stranded wire around the screw. I use a washer to help secure the wire. Anyway, this creates a pigtail which you can attach the solid GND wire to the pigtail with a wire nut or a #6 split bolt. There is your ground for your OTA...

OK, thanks dishcomm, good info.

 

[vegassatellite]

vegassatellite, do you have a trick up your sleeve on how you ground attic OTA antennas? When I snaked the attic coax I didn't run a ground wire. It was pure hell running the coax and I don't want to go thru that again for a ground wire.

Well, going strictly by code, you just have to get a #10 solid copper or a #17 CCS ground wire to the mast, and there isn't a limitation on the mast ground wire length, just the ground on the coax can't exceed 20 feet. So you would have to do it just about any way you can. In an attic, it's a pretty protected environment so lightning streamers, utility lines, etc are less of a danger. I think the mast ground requirement came from back when antennas had a 300 ohm flat antenna lead and you couldn't ground that wire. So the spec was probably written to ground the mast as that was the only part of an antenna system you could really ground on a flat wire install. Then, when CATV came along, they often originated their signals several miles away where an antenna ground would be worthless as a means of protecting the consumer. So, a code requiring coaxial cables be grounded probably originated separately of any antenna grounding codes. This would explain the redundancy of grounding that we see from today's OTA systems as well as satellite systems. The code is concerned with protecting life and property and a ground block on a coaxial distribution system should afford that level of protection by keeping stray voltage on a path to ground. However, since the code doesn't present an either/or type of option, we have to do both since we have both an antenna system and a coaxial distribution system.

As a customer who did his own system and is the one who endures the long term consequences, I would say that you should make your own decision on what you need to adequately protect yourself and your home. As a professional install, I have to consider the consequences of not covering my butt on several thousand installs so I follow the code as written, not as I see is probably the case with the above described development of the code.

 

[charlesrshell]

Well, going strictly by code, you just have to get a #10 solid copper or a #17 CCS ground wire to the mast, and there isn't a limitation on the mast ground wire length, just the ground on the coax can't exceed 20 feet. So you would have to do it just about any way you can. In an attic, it's a pretty protected environment so lightning streamers, utility lines, etc are less of a danger. I think the mast ground requirement came from back when antennas had a 300 ohm flat antenna lead and you couldn't ground that wire. So the spec was probably written to ground the mast as that was the only part of an antenna system you could really ground on a flat wire install. Then, when CATV came along, they often originated their signals several miles away where an antenna ground would be worthless as a means of protecting the consumer. So, a code requiring coaxial cables be grounded probably originated separately of any antenna grounding codes. This would explain the redundancy of grounding that we see from today's OTA systems as well as satellite systems. The code is concerned with protecting life and property and a ground block on a coaxial distribution system should afford that level of protection by keeping stray voltage on a path to ground. However, since the code doesn't present an either/or type of option, we have to do both since we have both an antenna system and a coaxial distribution system.

As a customer who did his own system and is the one who endures the long term consequences, I would say that you should make your own decision on what you need to adequately protect yourself and your home. As a professional install, I have to consider the consequences of not covering my butt on several thousand installs so I follow the code as written, not as I see is probably the case with the above described development of the code.

WOW, thanks for the info. I can tell you are highly knowledgeable in all this here satellite stuff. Wish you were in my area.

 

[dishcomm]

Speaking as a contractor, Not a DNSC employee.
If the customer wants additional work done, I will charge them accordingly. Off air antenna would be $60 (my price). If it is just a matter of diplexing a line then I wouldn't charge much if anything at all. Diplexers are cheap, So a $4 loss is not too bad for an extra 2 minutes of work.

As a contractor, I have to pay for my own cable, diplexers, connectors and time. I can not give these items away.

Usually when I quote my prices the customer will say "They told me everything was free" or "If you won't do it then I am going to cancel"

Some customers don't care that I pay for my stuff, But most do understand and pay the $60. For those who don't understand why I have to charge for additional labor, I call customer service and let the CSR explain.

With that said, There are dish employees that will do it for free because they are paid hourly and do not have to pay for cable and connectors. Or they might not do it because they just don't want to or they don't know how.

Bottom line, to answer your question, I'm a contractor. I pay for my stuff.

If dish would pay more to us contractors, Then I might throw in some free labor now and then but with gas going up and dish paying less, I can't do it any more.

AND!!...... If dish would STOP backcharging for stupid made up rules, Then I would be more inclined to do additional labor.

"They told me everything was free"..My resopnse is to show the customer what is on the w/o ..Noting the absence of an OTA install, I remind the customer that anything not on this w/o is chargeable. If they insist on sayiong "they". I ask who "they" are and to call "they"....I do not work for "they"...Of course I have used this tact only once of twice. Most people are pretty understanding when I explain the cost of materials and labor has to be passed along to the consumer because I am providing them a service.
If they threaten to cancel if I won't give them a payable service for free, I invite them to call Dish and complain to them....This has never happened......One time I had a customer flip out because I would not install two additional tv's for free. It was 4 tv install and the customer did not want to pay for mirror outlets...Well he wanted the install but while I was there he called Dish. He comes into the room I was working in and tells me he just got of the phone with Dish and they(there's that word again)said to install the mirrors...I said, no Dish CSR has the right to spend my money. Ia m not doing the morrirs for free. He then threatened to cancel. I said, done. I am leaving. Picked up my srtuff and took a walk. Called my dispatch and while they didn't want to lose the job, it was not going to get done under those circumstances..Some people have brass balls.

 

[dishcomm]

OK, thanks dishcomm, good info.

yer welcome.

 

[jasonhutch]

A little update... the tech came to the house this morning, took a little peek in the attic, went down to the basement and gave the existing coax line a little tug and promptly decided, "Can't be done--impossible! If the existing cable won't move, I won't be able to run new cables. You're going to need an electrician to come and do it."

He was in and out of the house in 5 minutes. I'm seriously not impressed.

What do you guys think? He wasn't interesting in exerting the effort required to crawl around in the attic and drop the new lines?

Anyone in the Chicago area interested in some side work?!

 

[rcdallas]

Dish already installs antenna's free of charge inhouse, subs though are a diferent story and they can charge, as it is there should be a charge inhouse as well to install an antenna as dish is a satellite television provider not an off the air antenna installer.

I ran into that when I first started out in Dearborn Heights... OTA was not free then, must of changed.

 

[webbydude]

A little update... the tech came to the house this morning, took a little peek in the attic, went down to the basement and gave the existing coax line a little tug and promptly decided, "Can't be done--impossible! If the existing cable won't move, I won't be able to run new cables. You're going to need an electrician to come and do it."

He was in and out of the house in 5 minutes. I'm seriously not impressed.

What do you guys think? He wasn't interesting in exerting the effort required to crawl around in the attic and drop the new lines?

Anyone in the Chicago area interested in some side work?!

More than likely his assessment of the situation was this: the only way to run a new coax was to feed two coaxs from the attic to the basement. And as such, probably felt that since the existing wire was presumably tacked to the inside wall, that it was above and beyond conventional/traditional installations.

 

[dishcomm]

A little update... the tech came to the house this morning, took a little peek in the attic, went down to the basement and gave the existing coax line a little tug and promptly decided, "Can't be done--impossible! If the existing cable won't move, I won't be able to run new cables. You're going to need an electrician to come and do it."

He was in and out of the house in 5 minutes. I'm seriously not impressed.

What do you guys think? He wasn't interesting in exerting the effort required to crawl around in the attic and drop the new lines?

Anyone in the Chicago area interested in some side work?!

If there is chase, it can be done....I think the tech tugged on the line to see if he could use it as a pull aire..Basically he would connect two runs of coax to the existing, then use the existing to pull the new coax cables down..Now, if this guy had enough glow rods on his truck to reach from the attic to the basement, he could have done it so as long as there was room in the cavity where the existing cable is now.
To be honest, if you called Dish to have this done and I showed up, the job had better be pretty simple otherwise I would declare it custom work and charged you accordingly. I am a sub. So to me time is money. I can't spend an unlimited amount of time on a job for the pay of a service call. Please undrstand, I always arrive on a job with the intent of getting it done. But there are limits to what I will do for the small amount we are paid for service calls. The way I see it, this is not a Dish related call and thus is chargeable regardless. Anyway, good luck. If you were on our side of the fence you'd see what we go through and you'd be understanding.

 

[chadzx11]

Did the tech need any "financial encouragement" to install the second cable?

Thanks!

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Skibum]

In other news, I'm going out to a service call tomorrow to fix a customer's OTA antenna that blew over. That's it. The work order notes say he/she said Dish installed it, so we'll see!

 

[dishcomm]

In other news, I'm going out to a service call tomorrow to fix a customer's OTA antenna that blew over. That's it. The work order notes say he/she said Dish installed it, so we'll see!

Do you live in a market where Dish provides OTA installs?

 

[Skibum]

Do you live in a market where Dish provides OTA installs?

It's one of the very few DMA's where Dish does not provide locals via satellite yet, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was a Dish OTA install. Either way, I'm one of those hourly techs so I don't mind at all.

 

[griz_fan]

Jusrt pick up the phone. Most people in the tv business whether it be cable ,satellite or home theatre will in fact install OTA's. However some will only install if you buy the OTA from THEM. So be choosy.
If I serviced your area,I would make a mint installing OTA's becuause there is little overhead , high demand and not many people willing to do it.

That's cool, but why doesn't anyone at least mention that in their yellow page ad? Seriously, you say you could make a mint, yet no one things of advertising this fact? It was actually pretty frustrating trying to research. This seems like a win/win situation. With the transition to digital less than a year away, all the installers in my area are shooting themselves in the foot by not advertising a high-demand service they offer. If that's how they run their business, you have to wonder how long they'll be around...

 

[dishcomm]

That's cool, but why doesn't anyone at least mention that in their yellow page ad? Seriously, you say you could make a mint, yet no one things of advertising this fact? It was actually pretty frustrating trying to research. This seems like a win/win situation. With the transition to digital less than a year away, all the installers in my area are shooting themselves in the foot by not advertising a high-demand service they offer. If that's how they run their business, you have to wonder how long they'll be around...

here' the rub..People HATE antennas...Some HOA's go so far as to ban them entirely..Since this DMA is available in HD on both satellite co's plus the cable incumbents, few will entertain thoughts of an OTA....I tell me instyall customers about how they can get OTA channels in full rezz, beautiful video, etc....they just don't bite after they hear the word "antenna"....

 

[Van]

I ran into that when I first started out in Dearborn Heights... OTA was not free then, must of changed.

Of all the ones I installed they were free in Atlanta during the bellsouth conversion as at that time dish wasnt carrying the atlanta locals and in the detroit dma for stations that werent carried at that time and still arent such as channel 9 out of windsor and channel 32 out of ann arbor. For a while there we stopped installing them from 03 - 04 and then they came back with the need for hd locals though very few went out from wixom and there werent any in ann arbor that I ever saw in the cage there.

 

[Van]

here' the rub..People HATE antennas...Some HOA's go so far as to ban them entirely..Since this DMA is available in HD on both satellite co's plus the cable incumbents, few will entertain thoughts of an OTA....I tell me instyall customers about how they can get OTA channels in full rezz, beautiful video, etc....they just don't bite after they hear the word "antenna"....

Yea antennas are worse than seeing a dish and dishes themselves are a definite eye sore. One of the things I liked about bellsouth when they ran wireless cable tv was the antenna was a diamond shape and they would put it up into the tops of pine trees aimed at a repeater tower so you neve saw it unless you looked for it.