Wingard crankup dish multi LNB mod.

[steve4810]

O.K Steve,
Up on the roof with a camera, the mod is very simple and inexpensive. Lot of mind burning in the begining with trials and errors but end result works.
Left out the word states in org post regarding skew.
Give me a few days to get back to you, very busy being retired and all. (LOL)
Jim

Thanks. And take all the time you want. I know what you mean. Since I "retired" I never have time to get everything I planned done.
Steve

 

[JW900]

Steve,

Here's a couple pic's (not the greastest but) showing how I mounted a Dish 500 to Wingard RW4600 Crank Up. Dish is in use right now so did not turn or put in travel postion.

Remove single LNB arm and dish. Remove Dish 500 dish and LNB from 500 mounting bracket to reduce bulk and weight while doing Mod.

Drill out weld's holding LNB arm to 500 mounting bracket. Using 5/16" bolt and nylon lock nut reinstall LNB arm using hole closest to LNB end of arm, tightening only enough to allow arm to pivot freely, I also used the tension spring from RW4600 arm on this bolt with spring arms pointing to dish end of arm. I also may have had to trim bottom of arm a little to allow for full fold up, LNB should be able to touch dish. Weight of LNB alone will keep arm down. It also appears in picture I may have drilled a second hole in RM4600 resting platform front pin location to help align with 500 arm.

Set skew adjustment to 0 degs and tighten nuts firmly, remove pole mounting tube and discard.

Two lengths of 1" alum angle long enough to span between RW4600 dish mounting holes.
The dark line in the alum angle is where I cut 1/8" V sliver and bent closed to allow alum angle to set flat on mounting tabs, do not drill any holes at this time.
With the help of clamps, clamp the alum angle in place. Position the 500 mounting bracket between the alum brackets using the 500 skew brackets, they should fit right between the alum angle,(I may have trimed elevation tabs to allow 500 to sit parallel with RW4600 bracket) position so upper bolt hole centers on angle and pushed up as high as possible so LNB arm mount is above or even with RW4600 bracket (see pic) mark on angle for drilling, 5/16" bolts and nylon look nuts. Reinstall allowing alum angle to tighten snugly to skew brackets. Reassemble and pay attention to LNB arm, pivot 500 on installed bolts so arm sets level with bottom of brackets where welds were drilled out and resting as flat as possible on arm plat form on RW4600 . Mark bottom holes for skew brackets, drill and bolt and also mark and drill holes to bolt alum angle to RW4600 dish mounting holes.
Also drill hole in bottom of LNB arm for coax to feed through as in the RW4600 arm.

I hope I've remembered everything it's been two or three years sense I did this.

A lot of steps could be combined with the use of clamps to hold things aligned.

Dish 500' s are considered obsolete and can be had for free to a few bucks. Make sure LNB is the PRO and not the old Legacy.

Jim

 

[mattv]

It will work, but it won't be easy.

I've gotten an old 18" single-dish like that working with 110/119/129 in a pinch while tailgating. I used a twin for 110/119 and some zipties/wood to add 129 off to the side. It worked well for me several times this fall during college football season....but like i said, it wouldn't be "easy"

 

[JayStil]

Looks good. Was your original crank-up Winegard just a single focus satellite dish? Mine also has an omni-directional off-air antenna attached. Might take a little more engineering to swap out.

 

[steve4810]

Jim,

Thanks so very much.

I think I have enough info to do the job. The pictures appear to show everything I need and the text appears to spell everything out fine. Of course I won't be sure until I get into the mod itself. I hope you keep an eye on the forum in case I get halfway through and have a brain fart and need to call for help.

By the way I mooded the Dish500 I used to have by drilling out the welds at the dish end of the arm, like I think you did, and installing a wing screw and wing nut so I could collapse it for storage. If the thing hadn't been stolen I would half way done already!

Steve

 

[steve4810]

Jim,

Hold on. Did your Winegard have the "magic level" ( or what ever they call it) feature ? I believe the sensor is mounted on the dish and calibrated so as to show accurate beam elevation on the readout in the coach.

Steve

Edit: The sensor is mounted on the back spine between the brackets that attach to the back of the dish. So my only issue is how to re-calibrate it. If it was built like we remember back in the day, it will have a trim pot on the circuit board in the readout box.

Edit2: Since the Dish500 elevation brackets are retained it may be possible to fine adjust the elevation using these, as long I see a way that the arm doesn't change it's angle. If it turns out to need to stay a little higher maybe drill and tap a hole for a 5/15 bolt in the Winegard arm platform and use a bolt to adjust from the underside to fine adjust the arm angle. How does that sound? This is getting to sound fun again!

 

[JW900]

Jim,

Hold on. Did your Winegard have the "magic level" ( or what ever they call it) feature ? I believe the sensor is mounted on the dish and calibrated so as to show accurate beam elevation on the readout in the coach.

Steve

Edit: The sensor is mounted on the back spine between the brackets that attach to the back of the dish. So my only issue is how to re-calibrate it. If it was built like we remember back in the day, it will have a trim pot on the circuit board in the readout box.

Edit2: Since the Dish500 elevation brackets are retained it may be possible to fine adjust the elevation using these, as long I see a way that the arm doesn't change it's angle. If it turns out to need to stay a little higher maybe drill and tap a hole for a 5/15 bolt in the Winegard arm platform and use a bolt to adjust from the underside to fine adjust the arm angle. How does that sound? This is getting to sound fun again!QUOTE]

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Steve,

Do not have "magic level", convenient but not needed, and way to expensive for that convenience, 19 turns is 50 deg elevation, each turn either direction is 4 deg +or-. If I remember correctly the sensor might be electricly adjustable?

I don't belive it would be that difficult to add, as you've been thinking already a place to start. I would mount the level on the 500 arm closer to the LNB and adjusting screw could have nuts on each side of arm for locking. Or as it was on Wingard. Not sure how you're placing the adjusting screw in the Winegard arm rest, elevating arm with just the screw doesn't leave much surface for arm to rest on.

I bought the crank up with mod in mind so completed it at my workbench before installing, much more convenient!!!

Some how I did this reply in the Quote mode without seperation of your reply and mine.(wasn't signed in when I hit reply and was requested to sign in may have caused it)

Jim

 

[JW900]

JayStil,

Yes started with single LNB arm and dish just as yours.
From the picture you posted the dish portion is the same with the omni mounted to the side with an arm connected to the crank up, appears mod would be the same.

Jim

 

[JW900]

Steve,

1/4" bolts and nylon nuts would work just fine in place of 5/16".

Sensor could be mounted as org. but on out side of bracket, needs to read 24 deg. when dish surface is at 90 deg.

Jim

 

[steve4810]

Sensor could be mounted as org. but on out side of bracket, needs to read 24 deg. when dish surface is at 90 deg.

I'm not clear why you would suggest moving it. But the clue to the 24 deg beam offset is something that never occurred to me. You get the 90 deg dish number buy putting a level edge to edge across the face vertically, right?

Do not have "magic level", convenient but not needed, and way to expensive for that convenience, 19 turns is 50 deg elevation, each turn either direction is 4 deg +or-. If I remember correctly the sensor might be electricly adjustable?

I don't belive it would be that difficult to add, as you've been thinking already a place to start. I would mount the level on the 500 arm closer to the LNB and adjusting screw could have nuts on each side of arm for locking. Or as it was on Wingard. Not sure how you're placing the adjusting screw in the Winegard arm rest, elevating arm with just the screw doesn't leave much surface for arm to rest on

I do mostly primitive camping in the desert where there is never really level ground so the trailer is always a little crooked. With the the level sensor I just dial out to the approximate bearing and crank to the correct elevation readout then search for the bird and finally adjust elevation for peak signal which is surprisingly always very close to the expected readout. BTW, I realize that not being level I am imparting skew to the dish(unless the slope it parallel to the beam direction). I'll just hope to be level enough to lock onto two birds.

As for the arm adjustment, it occurs that you can move the beam a deg or two without compromising the dish gain. I could fine adjust the arm with the bolt to get peak signal with the correct elevation readout showing then using the gap as a guide, build a shim or wedge that would replace the bolt for the long term. Now that I think about this, there isn't any reason to install the bolt into the Winegard arm. I could just build a jig and clamp it on so I fine tune the arm then when the wedge is installed I take off the jig.
Finally I'm going to attempt to do the mod with the winegard installed on the roof. But I'm prepared for the possibility I might give up and take it down if it becomes too much of a nightmare. The reason I'm going to try is that I can do fine adjustments with the receiver and level sensor in operation.

 

[JW900]

Steve,

I sense the mind at work with your comments in your response.

My thoughts on using original location is that after looking at a picture of sensor mounting it appears unit is mounted in a near vertical position in relation to the Winegard bracket. Moving to out side of bracket was suggested because of a possible interference with 500 mounting(elevation tabs inside Winegard bracket) and also original screw holes go all the way through bracket. Now that brings up a neither thought, mounting on the elevation tab?.
I don't have sensor so I can't play around with it.

Yes on obtaining 90 deg dish orientation.

Skew is not that critical and 5 deg either direction will be fine. Can be adjusted a few deg's with elevation setting, balancing signal strength between both 110 and 119. Skew adjustment is nothing more than elevation difference of sat's in belt curvature changing as you move east and west.

Jim

 

[steve4810]

Skew is not that critical and 5 deg either direction will be fine.

So long as I don't skew the the dish, the trailer and everything else 15 or 20 deg (which happens from time to time). But since we generally move to a different hunk of desert every few days (maybe we'll find a blooming whosit over that mountain) living with one bird for that short a period isn't all that bad. And I could still get off my butt and switch the beam back and forth. I got pretty good at that last summer with the standard Winegard.

 

[JayStil]

Being unlevel messes with much more than my DISH. It drives me batty overall. It's amazing how small of a left/right lean is noticeable when inside the RV. Lately the places I camp the most have pads, but even those get out of whack with frost heaves, etc. I always use Lynx levelers to get as close to perfect as I can.

 

[JW900]

Steve,

You've trained your woman well, mine checks the bubble and opens bath room door and each cabinet door checking to make sure they don't swing, no peace untill I level using what ever means I can come up with. LOL!!!!

Jim

 

[UTMTech]

Steve,

You've trained your woman well, mine checks the bubble and opens bath room door and each cabinet door checking to make sure they don't swing, no peace untill I level using what ever means I can come up with. LOL!!!!

Jim

And I get nasty modemails for using vulgar language on a family forum... Sexist commebts are just fine though?

No justice.

Sent from my fingers.

 

[steve4810]

Steve,

You've trained your woman well, mine checks the bubble and opens bath room door and each cabinet door checking to make sure they don't swing, no peace untill I level using what ever means I can come up with. LOL!!!!

Jim

In my case she has trained me. We're in the desert in the first place so she can find new plants and creatures and take pictures of them. She always wants to go down the trail a little farther. Check my web page http://www.desertatdusk.com Off roading and RVing all rolled into one.

Sent from my Toshiba Thrive using SatelliteGuys

 

[JayStil]

I was thinking of trying this mod now that the weather is better. However with DISH moving just about all HD off of 61.5, I don't think it's necessary anymore. I guess I'll just point the Winegard at 72.7

 

[dfergie]

In my case she has trained me. We're in the desert in the first place so she can find new plants and creatures and take pictures of them. She always wants to go down the trail a little farther. Check my web page Desert at dusk Off roading and RVing all rolled into one.

Sent from my Toshiba Thrive using SatelliteGuys

My kind of camping...

 

[Brussam]

Not quite sure how you managed to get both 119 and 110 on the arc without changing the skew of the dish unless you never changed locations.

Aiming a 1000.2 is just as easy as a 500 with a good meter to select the 199 LNBF for aiming.

Trying to kludge a multihead LNBF for a single round dish is a fools mission. The angles of focus are complicated at the best and without a skew capability, will not work.

 

[steve4810]

Not quite sure how you managed to get both 119 and 110 on the arc without changing the skew of the dish unless you never changed locations.

Aiming a 1000.2 is just as easy as a 500 with a good meter to select the 199 LNBF for aiming.

Trying to kludge a multihead LNBF for a single round dish is a fools mission. The angles of focus are complicated at the best and without a skew capability, will not work.

Are you calling me a fool?

Real world, the YEARS I used a 500 dual lnb I never changed the skew and never failed to lock 110 and 119 in three states.