Wiring new house - have questions LONG

[woodswell]

HI!
We're building a new house and the electrician is doing all our low voltage wiring for computer networking, phones, TV and speakers. He's providing us with a data and television distribution box, but I am not sure it is exactly what we need for distributing a multi-source satellite signal.

Rats! I thought the distribution box was still here, but my husband put it back in the house. I can get the specifics on it tomorrow.

Anyway, we plan to have at minimum a dual LNB dish, we may go HDTV when we set up the new dish. At least 3 receivers, one to be a DVR. Maximum possible receivers would be 5 - but probably not any time soon (there are only 2 of us). The distribution box "black box" for video distribution reads that it accepts 1 video signal and outputs to 8 locations. Will it (could it) act like one of those signal combiner/splitter deals that lets you have only one cable running down from the dish (sorry about the lack of technical terms here - tired and can't think of the words )?

From what little is in the instructions with the distribution box or at the website for the manufacturer, I cannot tell! But there is plenty of space to add additional devices to distribution/split the satellite signal if needed, so it is not a complete loss.

The other part of the question is the actual wiring - and yes, I should have asked this much sooner, since they are planning the insulation next week. We're running RG6U everywhere - home runs from each place we want a TV/satellite receiver to the distribution box. How many runs of that cable do we need to run to where the dish will hook in? Do we need to run extra lines to any of the locations where the DVR or other receivers will be?

Any other suggestions for a new house installation so we'll be satellite and HDTV ready?

Thanks!

 

[SimpleSimon]

Wow. First time back here in a few months and I happen to spot your post.

YOU NEED TO CONTACT SOMEONE THAT KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE DOING ASAP!!!

First, dang few electricians can even spell "satellite" let alone know how to wire for it. This is proven by him wasting your money on the "black box for video distribution " which is nothing more than a splitter (maybe with an amplifier). It is NOT suitable for satellite signals AT ALL. You can NOT "split" a satellite feed. At least he knows enough to do them all as "home runs".

As for number of feed cables needed, there's lots of variables involved. With Dish equipment, I can drive 2 tuners (HD or not) and backfeed the 2nd video output all on ONE cable (although I prefer at least 2). With DirecTV (last time I looked), the same setup would require THREE cables. SO, you've got to have an idea what functions are needed where. A GOOD "local guy" that wants your satellite account should be willing to look at your floorplan, ask questions, and make the recommendations. That's how I do it.

As for your voice & data wiring, CAT5 or better should be used for EVERY location and EVERY location should be a "home run". Do NOT let him "daisy-chain" ANYTHING! Note also that you should have THE SAME telephone line available for EACH satellite receiver (unless all of your boxes are DishComm-capable, and they've got it working).

With WiFi so cheap, fast, and reliable, wired Ethernet for a PC is, AT THE MOMENT, not very critical. However, with more and more multimedia devices becoming available, I still push homeowners to have it available in most rooms of a house. The wire just is not that expensive. You can share one ethernet connection and 2 phone lines on a standard 4-pair feed, but I generally advise against it to avoid confusion factors.

Finally, believe it or not, a lot of electricians do NOT know that you can NOT "parallel" low-voltage and 120V feeds without risking interference. I've had to rewire more than one house because of it. Once the walls are closed, you're screwed, so keep a close eye on him - nothing worse than those nice pre-laid speaker, video, or phone wires becoming useless because of 60Hz hum coming in from the house current.

P.S. I don't stop by here often - PM me if you want more.

 

[cueman98]

Hi. If you are planning to get directv, and a dvr, you will definitely need to run 2 RG6 wires to the dvr location, directv dvrs require a separate hook up for each tuner.

 

[woodswell]

Simon,
Actually, I think this electrician has done a pretty good job - all low voltage lines are run completely separate from electrical (except for the one his "assistant" did last week and that will get fixed tomorrow). He just is not very familiar with satellite - he normally wires in areas with cable.

You see, this is my brother-in-law, doing the wiring for cost of materials, so I am not going to bad mouth him. He'll be getting a HUGE Christmas present from us, so we don't feel like we're taking advantage of him.

But I do understand that there are some problems with the installation. We can run extra lines right now, so that will be done tomorrow - well, later today. 2 RG6 for the DVR - no problem. 2 or more lines coming into the main box from the satellite source - no problem. Changing the distribution situation - a little more complicated, but doable - and can be done later. :up Any recommendations for connectors to throw in that box for extending the signals from the multiple incoming lines to the ones running to the receivers? Should we run "Smurf tubes" to the most important locations?

I did contact the people that did our original satellite installation in the old house way back when - I wanted to pay for a consultation and plan for wiring for audio-video and satellite. Instead, he spent the entire time talking really fast trying to sell me a whole house audio system, ignoring my comments about what I wanted, and then upped the ante with the over priced speakers he wanted to sell me.

The other satellite installer that I've done business with will not be back in my house EVER. He could not figure out how my satellite was connected to my AV receiver, so he messed around with the wiring, disconnected my DVD-R, screwed up the speakers and left me with a total mess. Since I've been recovering from knee surgery, I have not been able to pull out the AV setup to rewire the system and have not been able to watch a DVD for six months due to that idiot.

I'm pretty much afraid to call any other of the local satellite installation "experts" since I don't know anyone I can trust. Know anybody you can recommend in Tallahassee, Florida?

 

[Claude Greiner]

You can call me at the Dishstore on Monday...800-807-0837 after 12 noon and I'll be glad to discuss all your options so its wired correctly for Satellite, internet and telephone before the drywall goes up

Here is a sample of the wiring I did in my own house...
New House Photos

My recommendation, is a minimum of 4 RG6 cables to the Dish to the distribution panel with a 5th cable for an OTA antenna.

From there, you want this as a minimum...

(2) RG6
(1) CAT5e for Telephone
(1) CAT6 for Internet

In certain areas such as a home theatre, master bedroom or living room where your going to have a pretty big setup...

(4) RG6
(1) CAT5e for Telephone
(2) CAT6 for Internet

Final recommendation, when your not sure what to run, install PVC conduit to the box and run the cables later!

I actually have open conduit in my living room area for surround sound since I have not installed my surround system yet and didn't want to install the wrong wire inside the walls!

 

[woodswell]

My recommendation, is a minimum of 4 RG6 cables to the Dish to the distribution panel with a 5th cable for an OTA antenna.

OK, we can do that today! But I don't bother with OTA - we had an extra antenna for OTA for several years and never bothered ever using it. Local channels are a joke (NBC affiliate has never added stereo for example). I actually wish I could go back to the days I could get network feed over the satellite - at then I could get decent picture and sound for regular network programming.

From there, you want this as a minimum...

(2) RG6
(1) CAT5e for Telephone
(1) CAT6 for Internet

CAT6? We can get DSL at best. Right now that is running just fine with CAT5e. I'm not sure I can even get CAT6 locally, especially today. Electrician is coming today and today is last time I will have him and husband to do anything until after insulation & drywall is up.

In certain areas such as a home theatre, master bedroom or living room where your going to have a pretty big setup...

(4) RG6
(1) CAT5e for Telephone
(2) CAT6 for Internet

Final recommendation, when your not sure what to run, install PVC conduit to the box and run the cables later!

I actually have open conduit in my living room area for surround sound since I have not installed my surround system yet and didn't want to install the wrong wire inside the walls!

I guess my best bet will be to go get some PVC - does it have to be the grey that electricians use? I think I have some white PVC sitting around here that would be big enough for a bunch of wires.

I'll try to call you tomorrow - maybe you can give me advice about getting a good deal from DISH when we get into the new house.

 

[jdspencer]

...Local channels are a joke (NBC affiliate has never added stereo for example)....

Note: that was your analog local. With the advent of digital and HD, you should consider running that 5th line. OTA is a great backup.

 

[dodge]

OK, we can do that today! But I don't bother with OTA - we had an extra antenna for OTA for several years and never bothered ever using it. Local channels are a joke (NBC affiliate has never added stereo for example). I actually wish I could go back to the days I could get network feed over the satellite - at then I could get decent picture and sound for regular network programming.



CAT6? We can get DSL at best. Right now that is running just fine with CAT5e. I'm not sure I can even get CAT6 locally, especially today. Electrician is coming today and today is last time I will have him and husband to do anything until after insulation & drywall is up.



I guess my best bet will be to go get some PVC - does it have to be the grey that electricians use? I think I have some white PVC sitting around here that would be big enough for a bunch of wires.

I'll try to call you tomorrow - maybe you can give me advice about getting a good deal from DISH when we get into the new house.

Home Depot and Lowes has cat 6

 

[woodswell]

Note: that was your analog local. With the advent of digital and HD, you should consider running that 5th line. OTA is a great backup.

We didn't get a chance today to run the RG6 from outside to in - with temps in the 100+ range we all bailed out about 2 PM. I've got to find out where on the house the sat installers will want to put the dish. I'd like it to be on the eaves of the second story, which is accessible from the second story deck. But I am not sure what an installer will recommend. That would cut the distance to run the cable to the control box to less than half.

We actually watch few network shows, but I'll see about running a cable and putting in an antenna for HD reception. Thanks for reminding me that the world is changing.

 

[woodswell]

Home Depot and Lowes has cat 6

Dodge,
Nope, checked today. neither we visited had CAT6 or carry it. I've got to go to Grainger's down near Hughes Electric. I'll check into CAT6 then. But I'm planning to hook a wireless router to the central system so I may not worry about it. We're getting 3k DSL now with CAT5.

 

[Todd Humphrey]

Do you have a #10 copper ground wire running from the dish to the building ground?

With all do respect to your electrician, 99% have no idea how to wire for satellite.

This may help.

Grounding NEC DIRECTV DISH Network HughesNet Wildblue

DBS Install - Satellite dish installation help

 

[woodswell]

Sorry, I should have done an update to this thread earlier this evening.

Todd, the dish will not be installed for the new house for at least a few months - we're waiting for a missing window and a replacement for the wrong door, they've just finished the siding except for those areas, and waiting on the roofer and insulation guys. But the electrician will be putting in a ground rod that can be used by the phone company and probably by the satellite installers.

Right now I am making sure the rough wiring is in the walls so when the dish and receivers are installed there will be no holes needed in our shiny new walls.

This morning I called DISH and got some recommendations for companies for new installations. I called one of them, spoke to the techs about what I needed - site survey to locate where the dish will go and check for additional wiring to make sure we will be OK for whatever equipment we might want in the near future. I will be paying for this directly - it simply is not what I expect a satellite company to do as part of an installation.

I don't expect it to take more than a couple of hours - the walls are wide open and there are already holes drilled most of the places we need to install cables. Since I helped pull some of the other wiring, I know the easiest paths to take to get them to our main network/communications box.

I'll see what I think of these guys - if I like them, I will work with them when it comes time for the final installation.

Basically, my gut feeling that what we have already run was not adequate was confirmed by the messages here. So now I need to get it looked at by a pro and let them pull what is needed to make it more than the minimum BIL did for us.

Thanks to every one who responded! :

 

[Todd Humphrey]

Your electrician CANNOT install a ground just for phone and satellite unless he also bonds that ground rod to the primary electrical ground with at least a #6 copper wire. All ground rods must be bonded together. I am sure he knows this, but maybe not.
The cables that run from the dish are supposed to be attached to a ground wire BEFORE they enter the structure. This means that a #10 ground wire needs to be run from the ground rod to the point where the cables enter the structure. The ground wire is supposed to be less that 20 feet in length. If more than 20 feet in length, a larger wire size should be used. A #8 will work upto 50' and #6 can be as long as required.

This is most strict interpretation of the National Electric Code. The NEC is not the law. The law is what your local electrical inspectors says is OK. They mostly do not care, but you might want to ask. The installer may have installation specifications he has to meet, which may exceed the ideas of the local inspector.

The mast is also required to be grounded, but that ground wire can be any length and can be as small as a #17 Copper Coated steel wire.
If you have not visited the links from my last point, you may wish too. I have pictures and a more detail then this post.

 

[SimpleSimon]

Note that the DSL speed has NOTHING to do with whether you are running CAT5 or CAT6.

There was a slight mis-statement a ways back about "CAT6 for internet". That should read "CAT6 for LOCAL network". CAT6 allows you to use Gigabit Ethernet without question. CAT5 will usually work, but is not as robust.

Your INTERNET connection is your DSL, and is MUCH slower than any modern Ethernet rigs. Having Gigabit Ethernet capability sets you up for the future of sending multimedia from device to device around the house. It's one of those things - right now it'll only cost you the difference in cable price which is nothing compared to the price of the house.

 

[dirkleearm]

If you would ever want satellite internet, you will need 2 seperate rg6 cables to the outside.