WS International Dual C band & Quad Ku Band LNBF - Release

[WSInternational]

Hi Everybody,

I have not been very active on the forum in the past couple of months. I have been working on a few projects for the new year and that has been taking up most of my time. You will soon see more new products for 2010 from WS International. In addition to working on new products and improving older products, I have been working on a project that I think people will be very pleased to hear. But as always, I can't say what it is until everything is finalized, but I can tell you the official announcement will be on SatelliteGuys.

Anyway, wanted to release two new products that are additions to our existing line of DMX LNBFs.

The DMX524U is our new quad output universal LNBF. It features a 60dB gain and a low noise figure of 0.4dB.

The next product I want to release is our new DMX242 dual C band LNBF. If you thought our DMX241 single C band LNBF was a good performer, wait till you try the new DMX242. The DMX242 has a 13°K noise figure with a gain of 70dB.




DMX524U Universal Quad LNBF

Technical Specifications

Input Frequency Range
10.70 - 12.75 GHz

L.O. Frequency
Low: 9750MHz & High: 10600MHz

L.O. Stability
1 MHz (-40 - +70° c)

Ouput Frequency Range
950 - 2150 MHz

Noise
.4 dB typical

Conversion Gain
60 dB typical

Input VSWR
2.5:1

Output VSWR
2.0:1 (max)

Connector
F Type female

Impedence
75 ohm typical

Cross Polar Isolation
>25dB (min.)

Image Rejection
45 dB (min.)

Phase Noise
-50dBc @ 1 KHz
-75dBc @ 10 KHz
-95dBc @ 100KHz

Supply Voltage
11.5 - 14.0V = Vertical Polarization
15.5 - 19.0V = Horizontal Polarization

Operating Temperature
-40 - +70 degrees Celsius

Storage Temperature
-40 - +80 degrees Celsius

Relative Humidity
0 - 95 %

Throat Diameter
40mm



DMX242 Dual C Band LNBF

Input Frequency:
3.4-4.2GHz

Output Frequency:
950-1750MHz

Noise Figure:
13K

Gain:
70dB

Polarity:
4 (Hor/Ver/LC/RC)

 

[Blindowl1234]

Robby, Always great to see new stuff! Blind

 

[Babadem]

Excellent work WSIATLANTA!! BTW, Happy New Year!!

 

[Mr Tony]

very cool that someone else is carrying a dual output C-Band LNB

 

[zamar23]

Thanks Robby!

Very insteresting. It may draw a lot more attention, if you also suggest typical application examples when presenting new products. In other words, explain FTA fans, in what system setup scenarios your each new product would be beneficial to use, and how exactly it should be used. What are the advantages of using it compare to similar competitor products, if not unique? I'm really interested to know, and many others presumably too.

 

[PopcornNMore]

These new products sound great!

 

[zamar23]

Robby

Can DMX242 Dual C Band LNBF support a linear signal on one port and circular on the other at the same time, while connected to 2 receivers or a dual tuner receiver? How signal polarity is changed in this case?

 

[Mr Tony]

Robby

Can DMX242 Dual C Band LNBF support a linear signal on one port and circular on the other at the same time, while connected to 2 receivers or a dual tuner receiver?

no its one or the other. You have to insert the dialectic plate in the throat of the LNB for circular which hinders linear reception...

How signal polarity is changed in this case?

both ports can change polarity. So you can have 2 receivers or add a multiswitch for more

 

[WSInternational]

Thanks Robby!

Very insteresting. It may draw a lot more attention, if you also suggest typical application examples when presenting new products. In other words, explain FTA fans, in what system setup scenarios your each new product would be beneficial to use, and how exactly it should be used. What are the advantages of using it compare to similar competitor products, if not unique? I'm really interested to know, and many others presumably too.

Thanks for the input Zamar. I always enjoy to hear inputs from consumers and customers. This helps me out very much and I appreciate it :up. Your advise is very well taken. So... Here we go: (I will soon posts diagrams as well)

With the new DMX524U, you can use it to install as many receivers as you want with signal coming off of a single satellite. You can use it along with a 3X4 multi-switch and install 6 receivers. Two lines would go from your quad DMX524U LNBF to the 3X4 switch and two lines would go directly to your favorite Set Top Box (STB) and 4 lines from the 3X4 multi switch to your STB. Or for commercial purposes, you can do similar wiring but with a 3X8 or larger to get 10 or more receivers up and running.

It's the same idea with the DMX242 dual C band LNBF. You can get C band from a single satellite going to 2 STBs with no additional switches needed. You can then use a 3X4 switch to have C band signal on 4 TVs or for commercial purposes (and residential purposes) use a larger switch to get the signal to almost any number of STBs.

 

[zamar23]

Thanks Robby!

Its getting wormer. Are you actually designing the LNBs yourself? What equipment and software do you use in this endeavor? How do you optimize your LNBs, in particular for C-band? Some technicalities would help. May be a couple words about your background would also benefit your projects.

Now, practically all manufacturers mark their latest LNBs with 0.4 dB noise figure. Are they all the same in that department, and how to check if that's figure true for an end user? I also see that LNB produced Gain keeps raising in new designs. Is it always beneficial or required for NA or SA reception, and for what sats in particular?

Regarding Linear / Circular, do you think its possible to invent a C-band LNB that would support both Linear and Circular polarities selection at the same time? Are you up to the task?

What is your general advice for a novice in LNB selection?

 

[Mr Tony]

The drawback of using multiswitches with a Universal is the fact Universal LNB's have a low and high band so in most of the world it wouldnt work. You couldnt have one receiver with a low band frequency and one with a high band as the receiver would send a 22k tone to the LNB to select high band.

Here in North America there are only a couple sats that need the low band and (luckily) they use ONLY the low band so this setup would still work. Just make sure that you dont have one receiver on a low band channel and try to blind scan the whole sat with another

 

[zamar23]

I don't recall which sat it was (probably only one among those I scanned), but remember being able to set Invacom QPH-031 as Universal to scan its channels, otherwise they wouldn't scan and the STB wouldn't show any signal strength to my surprise. However, I've seen posts saying to setup Invacom only as standard. Is that a common rule? Can it work as universal - it looks like it did in that case.

What NA sats require a Universal LNB to receive?

 

[WSInternational]

Thanks Robby!

Its getting wormer. Are you actually designing the LNBs yourself? What equipment and software do you use in this endeavor? How do you optimize your LNBs, in particular for C-band? Some technicalities would help. May be a couple words about your background would also benefit your projects.

Now, practically all manufacturers mark their latest LNBs with 0.4 dB noise figure. Are they all the same in that department, and how to check if that's figure true for an end user? I also see that LNB produced Gain keeps raising in new designs. Is it always beneficial or required for NA or SA reception, and for what sats in particular?

Regarding Linear / Circular, do you think its possible to invent a C-band LNB that would support both Linear and Circular polarities selection at the same time? Are you up to the task?

What is your general advice for a novice in LNB selection?

The designs of the LNBs ad LNBFs come from experienced engineers. I provide input and ask the team to design what I want. Then we go through a few stages of testing and if I'm satisfied with the test results, I decide to carry the product.

You are absolutely correct. Almost all manufacturers mark their LNBFs with much lower NF than it really is. Some also go as much as marking it down to 0.1dB. A 0.1dB is impossible at this time. I think this is all a marketing gimmick. This is not to say that later down the road there will not be an IC that is designed and manufactured that will be capable of going that low.

Unfortunately, it's hard for an end-user to test a LNBF for noise figure and gain without having the proper equipment. My recommendation would be to purchase from a reputable distributor.

In regards to a linear/circular C band LNBF, sure I think it would be possible. Look at the QPH031, on the Ku side. But the problem is there is not enough demand for any company to invest money into developing and designing one because the demand will not support it.

My advise for any novice looking to purchase a LNB or LNBF is to do good research. Most people purchase based on price & popular brand only. Unfortunately, to keep up with the market, prices are dropping on all electronics and satellite equipment is not an exception. Manufacturers are working hard to meet market prices and to lower cost. This means having to cut corners on quality of parts to bring cost down. Even though this can be really seen in the wholesale market (Distributor to Dealer/Reseller price), most times it's hard to see it on a retail level because of the higher profit margin in retail. Just because a brand is very popular, does not necessarily mean that it's a quality product. One way to tell is that usually, when you do research and see many retailers selling the same brand and model and you see drastic changes in price between each dealer, you can conclude that the reseller cost of the product was low, resulting in many dealers carrying the same low cost product for a better profit margin & therefore I would doubt the quality of that product.

I'm sure many people here that have used WSI, Satellite AV, or Sadoun products agree that our products are high quality.

So in conclusion, just buy sponsor brands & support the sponsors who support this forum.

 

[WSInternational]

What NA sats require a Universal LNB to receive?

A standard LNBF has a frequency range of 11.7-12.2GHz. You can pickup any satellite that broadcasts (TP Frequency) between the 11700MHz to 12200MHz. This does not mean that if a satellite broadcasts in a wider frequency range, you would not be able to pickup signal from it. You would simply only be able to pickup the transponders within that 11700-12200MHz frequency.

 

[Mr Tony]

I don't recall which sat it was (probably only one among those I scanned), but remember being able to set Invacom QPH-031 as Universal to scan its channels, otherwise they wouldn't scan and the STB wouldn't show any signal strength to my surprise. However, I've seen posts saying to setup Invacom only as standard. Is that a common rule? Can it work as universal - it looks like it did in that case.

some receivers you can "trick" the LNB to pick it up. I remember scanning in Cubavision (when it was 58W...its gone now) with a Universal then changing over to a standard LNB and it still working.

This does not work on ALL receivers though. Coolsat wont play right with it

What NA sats require a Universal LNB to receive?

some Atlantic sats require it...off the top of my head
58W
53W
34.5W

I cant see past 30W but that is a standard

none of the "US based" (72-129) require a Universal

 

[zamar23]

In regards to a linear/circular C band LNBF, sure I think it would be possible. Look at the QPH031, on the Ku side. But the problem is there is not enough demand for any company to invest money into developing and designing one because the demand will not support it.

Thanks guys for the info. Robby - good insight! Could you clarify, why there is enough demand for a Linear or Circular only C-band LNB to produce, but in your view there isn't a demand for Circular & Linear switchable C-band LNB. It sounds a lot more convenient for me to be able receive any C-band polarization by simply switching channels with an STB without changing plates or using 2 separate large C-band dishes. What's wrong with this logic? May be that's why Invacom QPH-031 is so popular?

Would it be that more expensive to produce resulting in lower demand? I guess it depends on the design. Are you saying that in certain regions of the world only Linear or Circular polarization signals can be received? Where?

 

[WSInternational]

Could you clarify, why there is enough demand for a Linear or Circular only C-band LNB to produce, but in your view there isn't a demand for Circular & Linear switchable C-band LNB. It sounds a lot more convenient for me to be able receive any C-band polarization by simply switching channels with an STB without changing plates or using 2 separate large C-band dishes. What's wrong with this logic? May be that's why Invacom QPH-031 is so popular?

First, let me tell you that I think it's an excellent idea.

Either Linear or Circular are the same LNBF that is already manufacturing. By adding a dielectric plate, the cost is so minimal that I include them with all of our DMX741, DMX741U, DMX241, & DMX242 so they can be used as circular as well as linear. Almost all manufacturers include them these days.

The QPH031 is Ku.

1. There are much less C band end-users out there than Ku band users.
2. Initially, you would also need to price them very high to help pay for R&D and I think the initial price point will cause even a less demand.

Even though I have not put any prices together, to me, but my thought is that End-user market alone would not be adequate enough.

As I mentioned before, I think it's a great idea. Fortunately, I've been wrong many times before in the past and this is no different. If I knew everything, I'd be on a tropical island somewhere with a dish farm

 

[zamar23]

How much R&D costs in CN to mod a LNB? I can see already how the design should look like. One or two people work for a few months. How can users now justify having 2 C-band dishes just because Robby doesn't want to work on the combo LNB? Now that they learned the idea, they will never forgive if you won't deliver fast.

 

[Mr Tony]

How can users now justify having 2 C-band dishes just because Robby doesn't want to work on the combo LNB?

Thats kinda an asinine comment to say to a gold sponsor. I think you owe Robby an apology. But what else would we expect from you

There are combo LNB's out there for both Circular and Linear

The corotor II plus wideband is c/ku linear and c-band circular.

http://www.satelliteguys.us/c-band-...hat-best-way-get-circular-linear-signals.html

and has already been done another way
http://www.satelliteguys.us/c-band-...ear-circular-orthomode-feed-modification.html

so use one of those

 

[zamar23]

Iceberg

It's sad that you try to use every opportunity to say something negative like this which has nothing to do with reality. Why would you need this? What then we can expect from you after that? Which means for me, I no longer have to comment on any of your posts. As to my small contribution to popularity of this site in this downtime (which you might probably don't even understand), just look how many members read the threads you started versus mine over the same timeframe. May be that's what bothers you the most? Btw, don't bother, I'm not seeking a moderator's straps.

Robby certainly understands that this is a joke as the smiley shows, and friendly invitation to keep working on his interesting product line. And he joked a lot in his replies that make them a lot more interesting to read. His product line in my opinion is very good and broad, and I use his products in my setup and recommended them in other threads just recently.

What I suggest YOU is to be more creative in your positive contribution to this site, and success of others will not bother you so much - it will come to YOU. Use your experience to seeks new and improved products from the site sponsors, and ask them to do due diligence when they don't. Isn't it expected from every member here, including yourself? This site's popularity is based on the notion to protect and educate consumers, not merely promote sales of people who pay to it no matter what. If it were like that, no-one would read it, resulting in total popularity and revenue loss and canceled advertising contracts from other sponsors like Google etc.

In my view, if a person can no longer be objective to others and support friendly image of this site, he should no longer be allowed to affect others in his duties, voluntary or paid for.