Zinwell WB68 cheap 6x8 multiswitch - flexports

[realbigmike]

Pendragon posted raw diseqC commands to use the flexports but the problem was that they need to repeated every few seconds because the switch has some sort of internal timer that switches back to the main LNB ports.

The switch works nicely with 2 legacy LNB.
Now for the flexports.
I am wondering, the flexport only uses 1 connection to 1 LNB and can feed that to 8 receivers? Hmm, I dont think that will work for a 13V/18V switching Legacy LNB would it? Usually this should require 2 ports.

Thanks for reading.

 

[pendragon]

There are two FlexPorts and I believe one can control the voltage sent to each. This would make it possible to use dual NA-style LNBs on the two FlexPorts, one for each polarization. However, for the time being the only way this would work would be to use a PC tuner to handle the non-standard DiSEqC commands and the need to repeat them. This also inclines one towards Linux and certainly requires custom software, making it out of reach for most people.

 

[realbigmike]

The author of DVBdream is pretty good about adding compatibility. It does already allow Raw DiseqC commands and it also already allows you to repeat the commands x number of times.

However, there is no diseqc timing but maybe he would add it. So the 2 flexports could be used as a single legacy LNB hookup, cool. However, I am not sure how to divide up the 13V/18V problem. If you used more than 1 or 2 receivers, 13V would need to be locked on 1 flex port and 18V on the other. Any ideas how to do this? Perhaps this would make the necessary software too complex to setup.

 

[pendragon]

However, I am not sure how to divide up the 13V/18V problem. If you used more than 1 or 2 receivers, 13V would need to be locked on 1 flex port and 18V on the other. Any ideas how to do this? Perhaps this would make the necessary software too complex to setup.

I didn't test commanding the same FlexPort with two different voltages, so I can't speculate as to which would apply. I don't see this as a big deal as one could use an external power inserter or adapt the mod I published to hardwire the two voltages within the switch.

I haven't used FlexPorts operationally for FTA, yet, but I did make provisions in my latest switch matrix upgrade so I could use them in the future. In my case I'm running a lot of C-band and bandstacked Ku LNBs and that want 18V or more, which means my 6x8s only supply +18V.

 

[realbigmike]

I got a deal for 6 used wb68 switches for $60 shipped, lol. So I have room for testing. I am fuzzy on how the switch would know which flexport to select.

Since the 4 regular inputs for 2 satellite locations are ?somehow? grouped into pairs 13/18V the receiver does not need to know to send a specific diseqc command to switch it is hardwired in a voltage change response.

Now if I hardwired the 13V with a power inserter on 1 flexport and did the same on the other flexport with an 18V inserter, how could I get the receivers to know which flexport it should switch to for odd/even channel? Am I way offbase here?

Restated, for LNB one, only 1 diseqc command would point the switch at LNB 1 then the voltage of the receiver would hook the receiver to the proper side of LNB 1 (13v or 18V). Since the flexports are not coupled for 1 LNB, they are designed for 2 different LNBs, how would the receivers know to send a different diseqc command for both polarities?

 

[zamar23]

The Flexport 1 is always selected first, when unoccupied and a signal from a connected to it Sat & Channel is switched to by an STB. If that Flexport is in use at that time, than Flexport 2 is selected by the switch instead, if the "switched to" channel's polarization & voltage is different. Remember, there can only be 2 choices here no matter how many STB's are connected, hence no variation in DiSEqC command is required. Make sure to hook a dual LNB to the Flexports, where each LNB port can accept 13 or 18 V.

I'd suggest you also to look through Anole's "Switch Setup Simplified" in the forum's FAQ Section, and read WB68 Manual.

 

[pendragon]

The Flexport 1 is always selected first, when unoccupied and a signal from a connected to it Sat & Channel is switched to by an STB. If that Flexport is in use at that time, than Flexport 2 is selected by the switch instead, if the "switched to" channel's polarization & voltage is different. Remember, there can only be 2 choices here no matter how many STB's are connected, hence no variation in DiSEqC command is required. Make sure to hook a dual LNB to the Flexports, where each LNB port can accept 13 or 18 V.

This is not my understanding of how the FlexPorts work. They are intended for separate LNBFs pointed at 72.5W and/or 95W. I've never spent time with DTV, but Lyngsat says all the DTV TPs at 72.5W are left circularly polarized and all the DTV TPs at 85W are horizontally polarized. That suggests the FlexPorts can be accessed by all eight outputs because the LNBF for each orbital location needs to support only one voltage.

If so one could hook a FTA dual LNBF to both Flexports as long as the connected receivers sent compatible FlexPort and voltage commands. I wouldn't be surprised if one could operate two bandstacked LNBs through the FlexPorts on an unmodified switch and have +18V supplied to both. Some of above is speculation, so don't take my word as gospel.

 

[zamar23]

I'm not sure, how your understanding contradicts mine - in what point exactly? Are you assuming, the flexports can accept only 18V, and no 13V channel can be switched to using a Flexport - on what grounds? Of course, intended to work with WB68 flexports DN STB models can only supplies 18V anyway, but is it sufficient to assume, the switch has no more robust inherent logic? The Manual advices to connect an LNB to the Flexport # 1, if only one sat is to be received via the Flexports, whether 72.5 or 95. Of course, more testing is needed to make any conclusions, yet it's limited now by Windows sat packages not supporting required custom DiSEqC command sequence. I guess, the right answer today would be: we don't fully know the logic of WB68 flexports control. May be someone wants to get a customized Linux soft and test the switch more extensively?

 

[pendragon]

I'm not sure, how your understanding contradicts mine - in what point exactly?

This is the part I disagree with:

The Flexport 1 is always selected first, when unoccupied and a signal from a connected to it Sat & Channel is switched to by an STB. If that Flexport is in use at that time, than Flexport 2 is selected by the switch instead, if the "switched to" channel's polarization & voltage is different.

As intended by DTV, each FlexPort is hardwired to one LNB pointing at one orbital position: 72.5W and/or 95W. Let's say by example that 72.5W is connected to FlexPort 1 and 95W is connected to FlexPort 2. If a receiver wants to connect to 95W, it has to select FlexPort 2, whether it is first in line or last. There is no way for FlexPort 1 to connect to 95W in this example.

Your description suggests the 6x8 assigns FlexPorts serially by request. That isn't how it works.

 

[ynnedibanez]

bandstacked lnbs would be my choice if i had equipment capable of selecting the flexports

 

[zamar23]

Your description suggests the 6x8 assigns FlexPorts serially by request. That isn't how it works.

OK now I get it. Your assumption is that the switch logic is cost simplified, so that only a receiver designed to control the flexports is able to first query and remember, and then command the switch to connect to a flexport based on the sat selected by a user via Remote. You may be right.

To use that logic, when a Dual LNB is connected to both flexports, custom DiSEqC software must allow a user to assign one flexport to H, and another to V polarity of a particular sat, and save that choice. When a channel is selected, it will be software routed to the appropriate flexport based on its polarity. Now we know, to use WB68 for FTA, we need a Sat software mod. Meaning, one would need to motivate a popular package developer to allow use of custom plugins, developed for particular sat equipment models, and offer some plugin samples. Such package add ons are now allowed to integrate various sat cards. So it needs to be extended to switches, since ongoing equipment upgrades by major broadcasters offer very economical deemed obsolete equipment choice quite suitable for FTA, often of higher design and make quality than average FTA equipment.

 

[pendragon]

Yes the Zinwell 6x8 is essentially brain-dead. All the smarts apparently have to be in the receiver. Getting the FlexPorts to work on Windows probably would require customization at the application level. Perhaps one can find a benevolent developer willing to change their app to do this. On Linux one can simply hack an existing app. That's what I did to test the commands that PSmith 'scoped.

Since I'm headed towards an all-Linux FTA operation I expect to code a more robust solution eventually. At the moment I have yet to fill all of my switch matrix inputs (62), so I haven't been forced to use a FlexPort. But when I modded the last batch of 6x8s, all were set up for full six input functionality.

 

[realbigmike]

After some digging with the search, found the buried FAQ Pendragon mentioned above:
http://www.satelliteguys.us/fta-mpeg2-faqs/134124-switch-setups-simplified.html

I keep hearing mention of backstacked LNB's but I cant find a definition of what those are, is it the same as a dual LNB?

 

[pendragon]

I keep hearing mention of backstacked LNB's but I cant find a definition of what those are, is it the same as a dual LNB?

Most North American LNBs send either H or V down the cable between 950-1450 MHz, depending on the voltage sent by the receiver. But this is a bit of a waste as most receivers can tune from 950-2150 MHz.

A bandstacked LNB sends both polarities at different frequencies on one cable. There is no polarization selection by voltage. One common example is the Superdish LNB that sends the V polarization from 950-1450 MHz and the H polarization from 1650-2150 MHz (actually inverted). There are a bunch of pros and cons to bandstacked LNBs, but they do reduce cabling and switching needs by half for complex setups like mine.